I am trying to sell my Pearson Ketch. A prospective buyer contracted a surveyor. He found high moisture reading around the stanchions. He did not use a mallet to do a sounding test but did not report any delamination. The survey did not get much further. He led the buyers to believe that the readings should kill the deal. When I bought the boat 5 years ago, the surveyor at the time did not make an issue of this, but I cannot remember him using a meter. I am unsure how to proceed with trying to sell the boat. Will future surveyors come to the same conclusion? Should I try to fix the problem if it does exist and how would I do it? I do not have a moisture meter and am considering buying one. Their use and reliability seem controversial at best. I believe the core material is plywood, not balsa. As far as I know, my boat is sound and in good shape, there is no delamination and she has served me well. I read somewhere that metal under the glass would give a positive reading.
High Moisture reading at survey
- Thread starter doneright
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I would get another opinion and determine what the cost is to fix the problem. All of these things are fixable and someone who really wants the boat may be willing to take it on themselves or have it done.
Depending on how much you want to get rid of the boat, you may be better off knocking off all the repairs and getting the full value out of the boat.
Depending on how much you want to get rid of the boat, you may be better off knocking off all the repairs and getting the full value out of the boat.
Done
Books could/should be written about these meters and their use in casual surveys, and their misuse. Similar to blisters, IMHO. Moisture meters do not read moisture...they read relative capacitance and can be affected/effected by nearby metal, metal below, and differences in layup and core material. If the surveyor counts only on his casual use as gospel...every buyer is likely to walk. The surveyor should give an even handed, honest description of the condition and the consequences of buying a boat that he finds "wet". Also IMHO, he should be honest and tell the buyer all boats will have moisture readings of XX%, and compare that to what this boat shows...but they don't. And likely won't for a host of other reasons (i.e. liability, reputation, etc)
Some buyers, at the simple mention of moisture and blisters will kill the deal. They are afraid...of the cost, the repair, the failure, the hype and the criticism of fellow boaters.
For moisture, ANYWHERE there is a screw, cowl, hatch, stanchion - ANYTHING that penetrates in to the deck, there will be moisture of some kind and at some point in the boat's life.
My boat, by design has several penetrations that, at the time seemed a good idea, are no longer used. Although not wet, my surveyor was quick to point out that the underdeck jib sheet path should be abandoned, cleaned and sealed/epoxied to eliminate the chance of those two holes becoming a problem down the line.
Sadly you can spend hundreds/thousands repairing the stanchion holes, and an unknowing surveyor can dink the deal by reading too close to the metal. If you fix these, I would remove them and all their support metal, make the repair and then have a reputable surveyor "read" them or better yet get an imaging system picture...it will cost you...but that info and a letter to "prospective buyer" attached by the surveyor may help...
All the best, and I am sure that others will post as well. There are several good writeups on the use/abuse of moisture meters on this list....
Books could/should be written about these meters and their use in casual surveys, and their misuse. Similar to blisters, IMHO. Moisture meters do not read moisture...they read relative capacitance and can be affected/effected by nearby metal, metal below, and differences in layup and core material. If the surveyor counts only on his casual use as gospel...every buyer is likely to walk. The surveyor should give an even handed, honest description of the condition and the consequences of buying a boat that he finds "wet". Also IMHO, he should be honest and tell the buyer all boats will have moisture readings of XX%, and compare that to what this boat shows...but they don't. And likely won't for a host of other reasons (i.e. liability, reputation, etc)
Some buyers, at the simple mention of moisture and blisters will kill the deal. They are afraid...of the cost, the repair, the failure, the hype and the criticism of fellow boaters.
For moisture, ANYWHERE there is a screw, cowl, hatch, stanchion - ANYTHING that penetrates in to the deck, there will be moisture of some kind and at some point in the boat's life.
My boat, by design has several penetrations that, at the time seemed a good idea, are no longer used. Although not wet, my surveyor was quick to point out that the underdeck jib sheet path should be abandoned, cleaned and sealed/epoxied to eliminate the chance of those two holes becoming a problem down the line.
Sadly you can spend hundreds/thousands repairing the stanchion holes, and an unknowing surveyor can dink the deal by reading too close to the metal. If you fix these, I would remove them and all their support metal, make the repair and then have a reputable surveyor "read" them or better yet get an imaging system picture...it will cost you...but that info and a letter to "prospective buyer" attached by the surveyor may help...
All the best, and I am sure that others will post as well. There are several good writeups on the use/abuse of moisture meters on this list....
I agree with this info from kd2pc. At my ten year insurance survey my surveyor took moisture readings and pointed out to me that readings will almost always be higher around any fasteners. He said that unless the reading is EXCEPTIONALLY high this is a "normal" condition and is not cause for concern.
I would explain this to your prospective buyer and ask him to question his surveyor specifically on this point.
I thought Pearsons all had solid glass under and around the stanchion bases and backing plates. If so, the surveyor should have known that as it would effect his moisture readings making them invalid. You might try doing back to the potential buyer after verifying the above and ask him if he is still interested as his surveyor may have completely mislead him.
I know some here may advocate the use of moisture meters but they are not all created equal and can be very counterproductive when used by folks who don't understand the principles behind their use which includes many surveyors.
I know some here may advocate the use of moisture meters but they are not all created equal and can be very counterproductive when used by folks who don't understand the principles behind their use which includes many surveyors.
Like a good number of them the buyers surveyor is a HACK, plain and simple! A GOOD surveyor will never rely soley on a MM reading and will ALWAYS use spot soundings in conjunction with the MM.
You may be best to hire your own GOOD surveyor to just go over the decks and give you an honest assessment. Then get a few repair shops to give you an estimate so it can be presented in any future " surveys" by disreputable "surveyors".
I can't count the number of times a deal has fallen through on MM readings below 30%. Many decks can survive 20+ years with no delamination or rot with readings at 20% or higher yet the industry has scared the hell out of buyers over what is, in many cases, nothing to worry about.
Now, if the plywood core is mush then there is a problem but if it is still well laminated and solid you're probably fine for a while provided you stop any further moisture ingress.
Remove a stanchion and do a core sample under neath it where it can't be seen. Then rebed the stanchion. If it is not brown, and the deck sounds out okay, then there is little concern in the immediate future, but try explaining that to a buyer who hired a hack surveyor and thinks his word is gospel..
Move on to the next buyer who hires a REAL surveyor not the lowest bidder who hangs a shingle and calls himself a "surveyor". ANY surveyor who does not combine spot soundings with a MM is NOT a surveyor in the pure sense of NAMS or SAMS the two largest accrediting agencies for marine surveyors. In short, your potential buyer was swindled by a joker posing as a surveyor.
If you want to better understand how a MM works and what can impact the readings feel free to read this:
Understanding the Moisture Meter / Electrophysics CT-33
You may be best to hire your own GOOD surveyor to just go over the decks and give you an honest assessment. Then get a few repair shops to give you an estimate so it can be presented in any future " surveys" by disreputable "surveyors".
I can't count the number of times a deal has fallen through on MM readings below 30%. Many decks can survive 20+ years with no delamination or rot with readings at 20% or higher yet the industry has scared the hell out of buyers over what is, in many cases, nothing to worry about.
Now, if the plywood core is mush then there is a problem but if it is still well laminated and solid you're probably fine for a while provided you stop any further moisture ingress.
Remove a stanchion and do a core sample under neath it where it can't be seen. Then rebed the stanchion. If it is not brown, and the deck sounds out okay, then there is little concern in the immediate future, but try explaining that to a buyer who hired a hack surveyor and thinks his word is gospel..
Move on to the next buyer who hires a REAL surveyor not the lowest bidder who hangs a shingle and calls himself a "surveyor". ANY surveyor who does not combine spot soundings with a MM is NOT a surveyor in the pure sense of NAMS or SAMS the two largest accrediting agencies for marine surveyors. In short, your potential buyer was swindled by a joker posing as a surveyor.If you want to better understand how a MM works and what can impact the readings feel free to read this:
Understanding the Moisture Meter / Electrophysics CT-33
I've done moisture surveys in buildings and can tell you that even electrical conduits in the walls can affect the reading of the pinless types.
The sad story is that perhaps 'most' Pearsons (with the gasketed stancheon bases, 'thin' deck top laminate with balsa core) have this problem. The good news is that the usual rot can be fished-out through a cut into the 'outline' of the stancheon base and the rotted core can be replaced with thickned epoxy with a SLOW hardener.
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Tim,The surveyor who surveyed my boat that I was selling said the area around my starboard stanchions was mush. This video is from the one he stated was the worst.
That was the one reading 25% or more IIRC? Excellent video to show why the hysteria over moist decks is not always warranted.
If your a buyer without the DIY gene then they are big issues when you can keep looking and find a boat without them
It's about willing buyers and willing sellers. When we bought our last house, we had a very good inspector. When we got his report, we told the sellers, you need to fix A, B, and C, but we'll take care of X, Y, and Z. They agreed, we bought the house. And yes, the DIY gene is a significant factor.
If the buyers are still interested, maybe you can talk to them about the situation, maybe show them that the deck is sound. Don't know if you want to make that effort or not.
If the buyers are still interested, maybe you can talk to them about the situation, maybe show them that the deck is sound. Don't know if you want to make that effort or not.
Actually it was pegged.
Here are the rest of the videos if anyone needs help sleeping:
http://treilley.myphotoalbum.com/view_album.php?set_albumName=album47
make sure your surveyor is SAMS surveyor. many donot get certification. the reputable ones do. i do know a reputable and incredibly knowledgeable surveyor--i was trying to get a job as apprentice to him. i wont apprentice to anyone else. \no one else seems to know the job.
Why not simply rebed one of the stanchions yourself to find out if there is an issue?
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