Hey Don......

[Alan]

After the discussion I just had with zeehag on the issue of telltales it occurs to me that we have never talked about reading the wind on the water in preparation for sail trim adjustments. When I'm driving the bus I like to get feedback from the rail on wind conditions ahead. Reading the wind patterns on the water are extremely helpful to anticipate knocks and lifts, velocity headers and lulls. Watching a puff touch down on the water surface and spread out like a fan creates a lift on one side and a header on the other. Seeing an incoming header gives a great opportunity to tack away and be on the lifted tack.

Wadaya think?

 

[RichH]

I think that would be a very good discussion.

Reading the water for oncoming wind, looking at the compass to know WHEN to tack when the wind direction is become 'variable', etc. can be very beneficial for the cruising sailor as well as aspiring racers.
Ditto, the changes in sail trim, etc. for gusty and unstable winds.

 

[Don Guillette]

Alan / Rich H: Good topic and one rarely seen. This is strange because wind is what powers our boats.

A long time ago I starting reading a couple of books on "reading the wind" but I had to quickly put them down as the authors drove me crazy with all the technical stuff because I'm not a technical guy and just a common seaman. It is like lift and drag. I don't completely understand it and can't explain it beyond two sentences but I know how to make it work for me.

What I was interested in knowing was how the wind behaves and what it will do next. I felt if I understood wind better it would allow me to sail more efficiently and faster but it is still a bit of a mystery to me. No two days are the same from a wind standpoint and in fact the wind varies from minute to minute and the sail trimmer ends up chasing himself and reacting instead of anticapating. I wanted to avoid that.

I did learn to understand apparent and true wind and I can recognize how the wind fills in different shapes, lines, circles and swirls. Part of the problem new sailors have is finding the wind in the first place. They have trouble identifying "cats paws" but once they see them they never forget them and will sail towards them.

Another problem we have is that we become very dependent on wind instruments and tend to be looking UP at the mast head fly instead of OUT at the water. This is especially true when cruising or racing downwind. How many racers ever take the time to look over their shoulder to see what is going on behind them - very few. Cruiser never look over their shoulder.

Do any of you other forum lister have any comments or observations on this subject. We won't become expert wind readers in the short space of the forum but we might be able to pick up a couple of pointers - so fire away.

 

[Alan]

Don you sure said a mouthful when you talk about looking over your shoulder when sailing down wind. We were racing a few of weeks ago against a Farr 40 and she had gained a significant advantage over us half way through the race. This sucker rates a -3 and we carry a 90 rating (not really a fair fight). As we turned the weather mark I looked over my shoulder and saw stronger breeze coming in from the right side of the course and she had gone left. At this point the Farr had well over a mile on us but she had sailed into a hole. We caught the fresh breeze on the right and reeled her in catching her by the leeward mark. On the last windward leg she again pulled away but there was not enough time left to buy her the separation she needed to pull out a victory. Splitting tacks and sailing to the favored side was a direct result of seeing the approaching breeze from behind. Needless to say we scored a well earned bullet in a race that we had little chance of winning.

 

[RichH]

Why dont you simply start with 'watching the compass', slow shifts and lifts and headers, etc.

Describe what's a lift and what's a header .... instead of staying on a long tack in the wrong direction that doesnt get one anywhere, describe the 'favored tack' and why, etc. etc. When to tack when the wind is shifty, etc. what the water looks like when a shift or lift or header is coming straight at you .... that will help a lot of cruising and 'pleasure sailing' folks.

Just start with the 'easy stuff' and if there is enough interest & responses, the discussions will pick up automatically.

 

[rtaylor82]

Why dont you simply start with 'watching the compass', slow shifts and lifts and headers, etc.

Describe what's a lift and what's a header .... instead of staying on a long tack in the wrong direction that doesnt get one anywhere, describe the 'favored tack' and why, etc. etc. When to tack when the wind is shifty, etc. what the water looks like when a shift or lift or header is coming straight at you .... that will help a lot of cruising and 'pleasure sailing' folks.

Just start with the 'easy stuff' and if there is enough interest & responses, the discussions will pick up automatically.

Still eagerly awaiting the 'easy stuff'!!!!!!

 

[dmc]

I understand the concept of lifts and knocks...........

and I can react if they are 'constant' but how do you 'see' them on a shifty day?

Peace

dmc

 

[Alan]

Many times wind shifts come cyclically and are predictable. Noting the time interval between shifts is very helpful to the helm. Also noting the duration of the shift is of benefit. The difficulty is trying to decide if it really is a wind shift or a velocity header. A velocity header is different in that the wind speed increases but the true wind direction doesn't change though the apparent wind direction does. This can easily be mistaken for a shift when it isn't. The solution is to sail through the header and watch the apparent wind move aft as the boat speed increases. Choosing wrong however relinquishes ground to the competition that has made to tack to a favored shift.

This is part of the 'chess' game that tactics is all about. It truly is a challenge and we work hard to try and master it.

 

[sinnettc]

The wind tends to be shifty on our lake so I watch for puffs. Haven't quite got the directional shifts that come with the puffs figured out, but I'm working on it. I'm not sure I understand where the compass comes in though?

 

[OldCat]

The wind tends to be shifty on our lake so I watch for puffs. Haven't quite got the directional shifts that come with the puffs figured out, but I'm working on it. I'm not sure I understand where the compass comes in though?

Some of the wind shift is apparent wind - the increase in wind speed before your boat accelerates. On our lakes, some or much of it can be real wind shift, so for that you need to watch your local conditions.

The compass comes in when you are beating to a location upwind that you cannot sail to directly - you use the compass to determine the favored tack - the one that lets you point most directly to your target. On larger wind shifts, you don't need the compass, you can see it and feel it. I still have trouble sometimes making ground to weather at the south end of our lake where it gets narrow, the wind shifts more than elsewhere, there is a shoal, and I need to stay away from the PB traffic pattern. Tacking options get limited there, or the crew threaten mutiny from too much work. The race courses avoid this area.

OC

 

[Bill Roosa]

Tell-tails

The rule is to windward steer up in the puffs and off in the lufts
going down wind steer off in the puffs and up in the lufts.
OR
use those tell-tell things. They are much smarter than the average or even the experienced sailor.

 

[ffaubert]

I'm with rtaylor82.

How do you read the water or what might be around you to determine what the wind is doing?

I get that a header is wind coming at you from the bow. I think a lift is a sudden gust or the same thing as a puff. I understand that a wind shift is usually when the wind moves aft. Not sure what a luft is (maybe a sudden decrease of wind?).

I don't understand the cyclic part or how to predict it.

Thanks OC for the compass explanation. I have heard of a "favoured tack", but I thought that it meant the boat felt more manageable on that tack.

 

[OldCat]

How do you read the water or what might be around you to determine what the wind is doing?

On a lake: The water will be darker where there is more wind, due to the small waves being made by that wind. If you are looking into the sun, then it may be brighter - speckled with harsh sunlight reflections. Often the wind up high will be ahead of the line on the water - so you will feel the wind on the boat just before you actually reach the wind line. I've always had more trouble reading it on the ocean - maybe because Southern California had more consistent winds and the ocean waves confused the picture - of perhaps I have gotten a bit better at seeing it.

Our local mountain lake winds are so weird that the wind line is not always moving with, at the speed of, or aligned to the wind direction. Sometimes you can watch a gust move across the lake - sometimes there are areas of wind and no wind that seem to be some sort of stationary thing.

Maybe a real expert can enlighten us more. Thanks for the kind words.

OC

 

[jimmyb]

I'm with rtaylor82.

How do you read the water or what might be around you to determine what the wind is doing?

I get that a header is wind coming at you from the bow. I think a lift is a sudden gust or the same thing as a puff. I understand that a wind shift is usually when the wind moves aft. Not sure what a luft is (maybe a sudden decrease of wind?).

I don't understand the cyclic part or how to predict it.

Thanks OC for the compass explanation. I have heard of a "favoured tack", but I thought that it meant the boat felt more manageable on that tack.

as I knew it headers are winds that will cause you to bear away form your course or destination and lifts will allow you to steer closer to your planned course.

I watch the wind indicators on the lake. water ripples ect just like OC has discribed. i think they look alot like when an aligator does that vibration thing. you can see them coming at you quite cleary on lakes at least once you know what to look for. me and the wife will practice counting off the seconds till the sails fire up and the boat scoots. its fun when you know when their coming, not so much sometimes if your not lookin.

As far as cyclical wind, i have done a lot of competative shooting in the wind and at distances of 600-1000yds and when standing offhand it is very apparent that the wind cycles. You either shoot in the lulls or shoot with the the wind and dope for either situation. Point is you learn to anticipate these gusts and lulls. Most of the time they are very predictable. You will start to be able to shoulder the rifle as the strongest of the gust disipates and then your lull time will begin. If you are not able to get the shot off you wait for the next cycle. Im no expert at applying this to pleasure sailing or racing a sailboat but I can judge pretty good when the next blast is coming across the lake and when I had better have that main sheet in hand or when I had better tack before loosing power in a turn. Reading the wind is all about keeping your head in the game. You will be amazed at how well you can tune into even the slightest changes.

jimmyb

ps -take my post with a grain of salt, im still learning -please correct me if im wrong

 

[jimmyb]

just thought of another thing about sailing lakes and reading wind. it seems after a short time of sailing it is just as important to be able to read where the wind is absent as where the wind IS or is coming from. lakes offer real nice opportunites for dead spots and fickle wind due to land obstructions. Learn where they are. They tend not to move much. Mountains and valleys and narrow passages really mess with your overall plan of making way. it is great fun sailing with winds that shift constantly and leave you flat one side of the lake and scream in your sails on the other.

jimmyb

 

[rtaylor82]

as I knew it headers are winds that will cause you to bear away form your course or destination and lifts will allow you to steer closer to your planned course.

I watch the wind indicators on the lake. water ripples ect just like OC has discribed. i think they look alot like when an aligator does that vibration thing. you can see them coming at you quite cleary on lakes at least once you know what to look for. me and the wife will practice counting off the seconds till the sails fire up and the boat scoots. its fun when you know when their coming, not so much sometimes if your not lookin.

I agree with all of this... I just don't know, when seeing the ripples on the lake ahead of me, if it is going to be a header or a lift. Maybe I just haven't paid that much attention.

Makes me look forward to the weekend even more. Even though I'll probably never master this, it's exciting to figure out new tricks/skills. Thanks

 

[jimmyb]

Rtaylor
say your wind is from due north. you are beating to wind due north on a 45 deg. port tack. IF you see your wind change out ahead from due north now coming from north west you will now anticipate a change of point of sail from close hauled to say beam reach. you know this is going to allow you to head up closer to due north thus lifting you. I wouldnt tack hear. Go with the lift. If the opposite happens you may want to tack if the end result is a bearing closer to due north. I dont really care when Im on the water all that much. I just take em as they come. A great wind indicator here woud be watching others under sail to windward. Watch their sail trim and point of sail.

Ok folks did I get it right or should I keep quite...just want to help out if I can.

God Bless, jimmyb

 

[OldCat]

I just don't know, when seeing the ripples on the lake ahead of me, if it is going to be a header or a lift.

Often it will feel like a puff is a lift when you are going upwind - unless the wind shifts at the same time. From an apparent wind perspective a gust is a lift until the boat gets up to the new higher speed.

Otherwise, on a lake much of it will be local knowledge. Ask yourself:

Where is the wind most and least consistent on your lake.

What are the patterns to the shifts, if any. Often the wind may oscillate about a mean direction. If the last shift was a lift, the next is likely to be a header.

Know your local patterns - how hills and other obstructions affect the wind. If you can watch it at times from a hill or other high area, it helps. Our local marina is up a bit of a hill and has a nice deck to watch the lake from.

When wind dies it can swirl around - usually it fills back in from where it was originally. When it totally dies - any boat speed is the apparent wind - no matter where you go you are headed until you stop. I once capsized my Laser in almost no wind - what little was left swirled around and I could not figure out what side to be on as the boom flopped back and forth. Of course I was on the wrong rail when the wind came back...

This just takes time and observation. Then you can go to a different lake and start over again - but with a faster learning curve.

Some of this has been posted by others, so the above is just to give my perspective. My local lake winds sometimes shift enough that if I look away to talk to my kid - I can get tacked without having changed compass course. Some wind shifts can make me look like a total idiot.

OC

 

[rtaylor82]

Thanks all for the advice. It's nice to know that other lakes can be as challenging as mine. It seems like it is a constant effort to keep a heading at all.
I understand lifts and headers. Just curious about learning some tricks about predicting wind changes etc..

 

[sinnettc]

Some interesting stuff here, and food for thought. I was just starting to get a handle on the shifts when it was time to pull for the winter. I did have a real interesting sail before the season was over though - we had one afternoon where the wind was really light; not glassy water, but very close. When a puff would come through it would shift nearly 180 degrees, then back as the puff died. It was *really* frustrating as I'd have to turn the boat in a hurry to avoid an unplanned jibe.