Do you know the O.D. of our rudder stocks? We have this thread going over on the wrong forum: http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=133671 . I think my rudder bearing is bronze. Is that correct?
Hey Blaise, re. rudders.
- Thread starter Ed Schenck
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re: H37C rudders
Ed,
I just measured my old rudder that is sitting in my side yard...
The OD is 2 1/2" and the wall thickness is ~ 3/16". 316 SS I believe. As far as I know there is no bronze bearing. Having rebuilt the lower bearing using the "West technique" - epoxy with graphite powder added injected into the rudder tube while the (waxed) rudder stock is in place - I can tell you its all fiberglass there. The upper bearing is Delrin or similar plastic. Hope this helps.
Ed,
I just measured my old rudder that is sitting in my side yard...
The OD is 2 1/2" and the wall thickness is ~ 3/16". 316 SS I believe. As far as I know there is no bronze bearing. Having rebuilt the lower bearing using the "West technique" - epoxy with graphite powder added injected into the rudder tube while the (waxed) rudder stock is in place - I can tell you its all fiberglass there. The upper bearing is Delrin or similar plastic. Hope this helps.
That's exactly what we need Jim. I sure am good at estimating, I said 4". Actually I am going to be at the boat working on the mast today. I always carry my calipers. But I could swear I can see a bronze sleeve in mine(picture).
Rick, about Jim's reference to a Delrin plastic upper bearing. There is a square plastic block, about 1" thick, that sits on that platform where the rudder stock goes through. A collar on the rudder stock rides on that block. In the only pictures I have friend Tom moved the block under the shelf. This is to keep the rudder down because they want to float up and bind on the hull.
Rick, about Jim's reference to a Delrin plastic upper bearing. There is a square plastic block, about 1" thick, that sits on that platform where the rudder stock goes through. A collar on the rudder stock rides on that block. In the only pictures I have friend Tom moved the block under the shelf. This is to keep the rudder down because they want to float up and bind on the hull.
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Ed, definitely no metal sleeve in my rudder tube - I had to clean the ID and roughen it up before I injected the graphite epoxy mix. And according to West/Gougeon Bros, this was pretty typical of production boats of that era (after all, they devote a chapter in their Fiberglass Boat Repair manual to the subject). However, that sure looks like a sleeve in your picture. Does the rubber hose for the rudder stuffing box on your boat clamp over fiberglass or metal? Must have been a change in the manufactruing the rudder tube between your boat and mine...
Blaise, what is that last post about delrin inside the tube? We were talking about that thick delrin block that the collar rides on. And about your question, my rudder stuffing box hose is over fiberglass I think. I have only slid it up a quarter inch or so when looking for a leak. That leak was found and discussed above. You can't see the tube in the pictures. But Rick you can see what Jim was talking about, one of the thru-hulls for the cockpit scuppers.
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Thank guys, I need to make another trip up there to the boat after studying your posts...
I see the Delrin block still in there...
Need to get everything fished out of there- been laying there since Katrina...
I'll get back to this thread asap.
Rick
I see the Delrin block still in there...
Need to get everything fished out of there- been laying there since Katrina...
I'll get back to this thread asap.
Rick
Rick, the rudder tube is fiberglass (and may or may not have some kind of bearing surface on the ID) and was originally solidly glassed into the hull. It may have been damaged when the rudder was lost, looking at the exterior pictures you posted earlier. There should be no flexing - other than the rubber hose that attaches to the bronze stuffing box - as this tube carries most of the rudder's force as well as keeping Davy Jones out of your boat... I'm sure it can be repaired but you will need a rudder or a length of 2 1/2" tube to get everything aligned - the keel to rudder plane and the upper (Delrin) and lower (tube) bearings.
Jim is right. What is deflecting is the rubber hose below that stuffing box, the thing with the bolts in it. It is seen in my pictures above with the loose hose clamps. That part and as far as one can see down the tube looks fine. I think the rudder tube is part of the hull mold. It seems most are all fiberglass including the inside bearing surface. My '79 might have a bronze sleeve. Wish I knew for sure. Here's another picture of that section.
So you not only need a rudder but also the radial wheel that steers the thing. Then there are the pedestal and cables to the radial wheel. Do you have those?
So you not only need a rudder but also the radial wheel that steers the thing. Then there are the pedestal and cables to the radial wheel. Do you have those?
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Ed,
When the yard pulled the rudder shaft (what was left of it) out, a very worn sheet of delrin that wrapped around the shaft came out with it. When the new rudder was installed, the replaced the delrin sheet. The steering was very stiff for a couple of months until it broke in. Now it once again feels as smooth as velvet.
When the yard pulled the rudder shaft (what was left of it) out, a very worn sheet of delrin that wrapped around the shaft came out with it. When the new rudder was installed, the replaced the delrin sheet. The steering was very stiff for a couple of months until it broke in. Now it once again feels as smooth as velvet.
Very curious Blaise. Nothing came out with my rudder. Once back in there is no noticeable play when trying to move in any direction. I don't expect to ever have a chance to find out what is really in there.
I guess I can measure the shaft hole tonight. I would expect to see it slightly over 2.5".
Anymore than that and it could use the plastic as a sleeve.
I, btw, have the quadrants and pulleys. So I think I am in business.
I am going to make a post and summarize everything and run it past the group.
Anymore than that and it could use the plastic as a sleeve.
I, btw, have the quadrants and pulleys. So I think I am in business.
I am going to make a post and summarize everything and run it past the group.
Well if you have the quandrant(a radial wheel on my boat) then you know the correct shaft size. Is it really a quandrant?
http://www.edsonmarine.com/marinestore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=287
http://www.edsonmarine.com/marinestore/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=287
Regarding the rudder stops. If you look at your radial wheel (or the one in my link above) there is a heavy duty pin sticking up. It has a rubber cover. That pin or stud will be centered and forward when the radial wheel is installed properly. The older boats like mine have a cheap pine 2x4 holding up the shelf. Then two pieces of 2x4 screwed to that acting as rudder stops. The radial wheel turns until that pin hits the 2x4. Then you can see on Tom's boat that his shelf support is heavy angle iron. And it has enough depth to act as the rudder stop without anything attached to it. I have had that piece of angle iron in my garage for ten years. 
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Not sure which picture shows the bearing block. If we start at the top it goes like this. On the coaming, center back, is a screw out inspection plate. The top of the rudder post is under there. It is where you insert the emergency tiller. Next, going down, is an aluminum collar bolted through the post. Under it is the delrin block which sits on a plywood shelf. Then at the lazarette floor level is a plywood cover with a slot for the rudder post. Lift that out and you are looking at the radial wheel. Mine is both clamped around and bolted through the rudder post. Under that is the stuffing box. The bolts, when tightened, squeeze a packing just like the engine shaft stuffing box. Then the hose connecting the stuffing box to the rudder tube, two clamps at top and two more clamps at bottom. Hope that helps.
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