Help sailing
- Thread starter Nes
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@Nes ,
The issue is that you need to learn how to sail.
There are many things you might be doing wrong.
But give yourself credit: If you’ve never had a lesson, and the boat is moving in the direction you want to go, you’re doing something right!
Sailing is sort of complicated, and takes a little time on the water to learn even just the basics. Do take those lessons! In the meantime, Read an intro book or view an online introduction to sailing, such as
asa.com
I’m sure other folks can suggest good books for a beginner. I haven’t read a beginners book since I was 8 years old at summer camp, so I really don’t have any recommendations for you.
Have fun!
Judy B
The issue is that you need to learn how to sail.
There are many things you might be doing wrong.But give yourself credit: If you’ve never had a lesson, and the boat is moving in the direction you want to go, you’re doing something right!
Sailing is sort of complicated, and takes a little time on the water to learn even just the basics. Do take those lessons! In the meantime, Read an intro book or view an online introduction to sailing, such as
Free Online Sailing Course
Learn to sail online with ASA - "Your First Sail" is a short, fun, online sailing course designed to familiarize you with the world of sailing.
asa.com
I’m sure other folks can suggest good books for a beginner. I haven’t read a beginners book since I was 8 years old at summer camp
, so I really don’t have any recommendations for you.Have fun!
Judy B
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Congratulations. All of us were in your shoes. Buy Don Guillette's excellent book about sial trim, right here on sbo. Look in the store for it. Best book ever, to compliment Judy's advice.
I first sailed in 1957- been learning ever since, and STILL don't know it all. Congrats on getting started
So good to have you join us. You have chosen wisely in posting your questions with this group of highly experienced and knowledgeable sailors.
Right now, the best advice I can give is take your time and when the good DrJudyB speaks, you listen.
I'm sure you are excited to get started, but take the time to learn the parts of your boat. Knowing each part and what it does is half the battle. You will be able to communicate with other sailors better and along with knowing their names comes knowing their function. The Cal 25 is a great boat to learn on and grow with. What you learn on her will transfer to most any other sailboat.
If you could post some pictures of your setup, help us understand what you've done to get her ready to sail and some of the steps you take to shove off and set the sails to get going.
There is nothing that can replace first hand, in person help from another sailor; sailing is more complex than powerboating. But we are happy to help another sailor.
I'm looking forward following your progress.
Steady winds.
-Will (Dragonfly)
Right now, the best advice I can give is take your time and when the good DrJudyB speaks, you listen.
I'm sure you are excited to get started, but take the time to learn the parts of your boat. Knowing each part and what it does is half the battle. You will be able to communicate with other sailors better and along with knowing their names comes knowing their function. The Cal 25 is a great boat to learn on and grow with. What you learn on her will transfer to most any other sailboat.
If you could post some pictures of your setup, help us understand what you've done to get her ready to sail and some of the steps you take to shove off and set the sails to get going.
There is nothing that can replace first hand, in person help from another sailor; sailing is more complex than powerboating. But we are happy to help another sailor.
I'm looking forward following your progress.
Steady winds.
-Will (Dragonfly)
You might want to contact these folks.
jsca.bc.ca
Clubs, Schools & Rentals | Jericho Sailing Centre
Vancouver's Ocean Access Community Centre
jsca.bc.ca
A couple of references I started with before I got into a dedicated class. And not being mean but I found the book Sailing for Dummies to be an easy read and with chapters setup to skip around and entertaining too.
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Welcome. At the most basic level, the angle you set the sails must be adjusted to match the course and relative direction of the wind.
You can get the general idea from this. Note the sail setup for each point of sail relative to the wind. If you were trying to sail in the "no go zone", that could be your problem. If you were sailing a course roughly parallel to other sailboats, and your sails were roughly set to similar trim, there are a myriad of reasons why they might have been faster. Does your boat have sails that are crisp and in good shape, or do the feel like grandpa's handkerchief? Are they all wrinkly when you are trying to sail or smooth and tight like an airplane wing. What sails are the boats you are matched against flying and what relative size are they? A longer boat with more sail area, or just a bigger boat might be considerably faster. A catamaran or trimaran would typically be much faster. You need to learn what speed to expect from your boat in certain conditions.
The question you ask, is sort of like "what is love?"; or "what is the meaning of life?" The answer to why another boat might be faster is difficult to determine without a ton of additional information. Until we have a lot more information on your boat, sails, wind conditions, and the boats you were comparing yours to, we can only guess. One distinct possibility is the other boat may have been motor-sailing...
This is a great group of people, with a huge knowledge base. They understood from your question that your sailing knowledge was very limited and tried to help you as best they could. Shows a lot of character.
There are no stupid questions. Just keep adding information and learning about sailing, so you can frame your questions in such a way that these fine folks can help you.
Congratulations on getting a boat and getting on the water. There is nothing better.
You can get the general idea from this. Note the sail setup for each point of sail relative to the wind. If you were trying to sail in the "no go zone", that could be your problem. If you were sailing a course roughly parallel to other sailboats, and your sails were roughly set to similar trim, there are a myriad of reasons why they might have been faster. Does your boat have sails that are crisp and in good shape, or do the feel like grandpa's handkerchief? Are they all wrinkly when you are trying to sail or smooth and tight like an airplane wing. What sails are the boats you are matched against flying and what relative size are they? A longer boat with more sail area, or just a bigger boat might be considerably faster. A catamaran or trimaran would typically be much faster. You need to learn what speed to expect from your boat in certain conditions.
The question you ask, is sort of like "what is love?"; or "what is the meaning of life?" The answer to why another boat might be faster is difficult to determine without a ton of additional information. Until we have a lot more information on your boat, sails, wind conditions, and the boats you were comparing yours to, we can only guess. One distinct possibility is the other boat may have been motor-sailing...
This is a great group of people, with a huge knowledge base. They understood from your question that your sailing knowledge was very limited and tried to help you as best they could. Shows a lot of character.
There are no stupid questions. Just keep adding information and learning about sailing, so you can frame your questions in such a way that these fine folks can help you.
Congratulations on getting a boat and getting on the water. There is nothing better.
I agree with everything everyone has said... and if you feel you know the very basic stuff (you must understand at least a little if your boat is heading the way you want), I would add that in my experience novice sailors tend to trim sails in too much (too flat... too tight...). If your sails aren't trimmed enough, they flap and flog ("luffing") all over the place... which is more quickly noticed by beginners than if the sails are too tight/flat/overtrimmed. Pick a direction to head... and then keep that same heading... say a close reach or beam reach, while adjusting sails a bit in either direction. If you can let the sails out a bit, without causing them to flutter/flap... do that... as soon as they start luffing (vibrating/flapping), you went just a tiny bit too far, and trim back in just enough that they stop. This is obviously very oversimplified, and not necessarily the issue you're experiencing, but I do see lots of beginners trim the sails in way too far (which among other things, would cause you to go slower than you want). Also, if you don't have tell tales (string or yarn on sails to help "see" the wind flow around them) they're a very small investment (rare in the sailing world), and super-useful for figuring out whether your sails are trimmed properly. Also (as others stated) when comparing your speed to other boats (a fine idea) try to keep up with boats similar (in size/shape) to yours... longer boats, or multi-hulls, etc, aren't a fair comparison. Take a lesson... read a book ... keep asking questions... sailors generally like helping other sailors! Good luck.
Oh... one last thing... get used to the fact that sailing close hauled at 4 knots FEELS much faster than running at 5 knots... assuming you're not sailing in strong currents a GPS is going to be a good tool in judging whether your adjustments are speeding you up or slowing you down... just don't stare at the screen the whole time... check the numbers, then go back to looking where you're going, looking at sails, looking at boat traffic, etc... Enjoy!
Oh... one last thing... get used to the fact that sailing close hauled at 4 knots FEELS much faster than running at 5 knots... assuming you're not sailing in strong currents a GPS is going to be a good tool in judging whether your adjustments are speeding you up or slowing you down... just don't stare at the screen the whole time... check the numbers, then go back to looking where you're going, looking at sails, looking at boat traffic, etc... Enjoy!
We all learn by imitation, follow a boat that passes you by and try to duplicate the shape of its sails and the angle of its boom.
Here's an excerpt from a post I wrote about my first sail with my 28 year old son aboard a new to me Windmill. We'd sailed together before, but not on my boat, under my command. My failure in his upbringing is inexcusable.
-Will (Dragonfly)He was surprisingly nervous about heeling too. After I assured him that the Windmill could heel a lot more than he was letting it, he relaxed a bit. I even got a chance to demonstrate how the hiking straps worked. My mistake. I really feel that today.
Then we were talking about planing and sailing down wind. I decided to try out the whisker pole on our last run before heading in.
Wow, that is a cool setup. Just pull a line and the whisker pole runs out through a sleeve right to the clew of the jib. Only on the port side, but it's for DDW, so no problems.
Then, my son is complaining about the loss of wind. I say, "What? We got plenty of wind."
"No we don't. I don't feel any wind."
I say, look at the water. We're moving pretty good."
"There's no wind!"
"Because we're sailing with it."
"Not very fast."
Then, BAM! We hit a submerged rock and I fly across the thwart into the bow. Got a huge goose egg on my shin.
"See how fast we were going?"
Ditto Stu Jackson's advice above rather than attending some class. Take Don's book, select one or two of his steps (main or head sail), and practice on the water. Each boat responds to sail trim differently. Also spend some time over on Don's postings here: Sail Trim with Don Guillette
He might like to hear from you and offer free assistance on how to best trim your boat.
He might like to hear from you and offer free assistance on how to best trim your boat.
Trying to duplicate the sail trim of boats nearby is difficult at best and near impossible. How do I know -- I tried it. My problem was I had no idea of the function of all the sail trim controls for the main & jib. How am i suppose to shape my main & jib when I didn't know which sail trim controls to use. It's like going to a concert to learn how to play the piano!! If you decided to buy a plane would you just hop in it and take off? Of course not. Maybe you'd read about the planes controls so that when you went to ground school you'd have an idea of what the instructor was talking about. I picked the toughest school I could find in So Ca for sailing lessons. Unfortunately for me I had no idea what the instructor was talking about concerning sail trim. I don't think the other students did either but they keep nodding their heads. Later I found out I wasn't the only person who didn't get sail trim.
There's many books on sail trim. The problem I had the books was the info was all over the place - the traveler was on various pages and so was all the other controls. With my book everything you need to know about each sail trim control is in it's own section.
My advise to beginner sailors is research the control first. Next, pick a sailing school that has good reviews. Before you sign a contract with them ask to interview the instructor who'll be teaching your class. You're hiring and paying them -- they're not giving you the class for free. Believe me, and this applies to any class you're taking, there are instructors out there that should be doing something else. You're looking for an instructor with good communication skills that can tailor the instruction to the needs of each student - none of whom are the same.
There's many books on sail trim. The problem I had the books was the info was all over the place - the traveler was on various pages and so was all the other controls. With my book everything you need to know about each sail trim control is in it's own section.
My advise to beginner sailors is research the control first. Next, pick a sailing school that has good reviews. Before you sign a contract with them ask to interview the instructor who'll be teaching your class. You're hiring and paying them -- they're not giving you the class for free. Believe me, and this applies to any class you're taking, there are instructors out there that should be doing something else. You're looking for an instructor with good communication skills that can tailor the instruction to the needs of each student - none of whom are the same.
When in doubt let the sail out. really just push off dock in direction you want to go. except straight into wind dont cleat off any sail let them flap then pull in just until they quit flapping then cleat off that's maximum power. without more precise tweaks
Congrats on buying a great boat. I had a Cal25 on Lake Pontchartrain in New Orleans for years. Comfortable day sailor and great race boat for Wednesday night handicap beer can races Check your local sailing area to see if there is a one design fleet. If you do have a local fleet, they can help you with boat set up and provide useful info on how to sail them. if not then search the internet for cal 25 fleets. they used to have an active nationals fleet. As per the other advice jump into sailing and your learning curve will be steep and fun. You have a great boat. my suggestion for beginners is to get a basic book, read it, go out sailing and then go back and read it again. The “aha“ moments will then begin to kick in. the basic book will give you 80% info. The rest you will learn on the water. Be safe and have fun.
Thank you so much. I'm worried that something is wrong with the boat, but the sails are all ok like everything else. Will the mussels on the rudder have a huge effect on steering etc?
Also what I'm missing with the instructions that I've read so far is where the rudder needs to point depending on the points of sail, that one has got me so confused.
Also what I'm missing with the instructions that I've read so far is where the rudder needs to point depending on the points of sail, that one has got me so confused.
Thank you, there isn't much about Cal 25s in Vancouver. I took the boat out again and learned some stuff and I agree it's some aha moments that made it click in my mind.
Question, the traveller when sailing does it have be locked in the middle position or it should freely go left or right?
The traveler should be locked in position. Where that position needs to be is a deep subject. For now, lock it in the middle while sailing (just my suggestion). You have enough to think about.
Your question about where the rudder needs to point is intriguing. Your rudder control is like your steering wheel in your car. Imagine you're on a road that leans hard to right, or there is a strong cross wind from the left. You would apply a slight pressure to the left to keep the car on the road, but not crank the wheel hard to left. This is true while sailing, as long as the boat is moving fast enough to maintain steerage. The water rushing past the rudder allows you to steer. No movement, no steerage. If you are moving slowly, and crank the rudder hard over, the result might be more drag than steer. You'll get a feel for it in time. To answer your question, pick a fixed object, compass point, etc and steer a straight course toward it. The rudder will be basically in line with your course, with a slight bias to correct for lack of sail balance. Try to pick a course on a reach initially. Also, I would suggest limiting your exploits to 15 knots or lower wind speed. Maybe even 10 knots at first.
Sail straight on a reach, adjusting your sail trim to get a feel for it. Once you've gotten to the end of that course, try to come about and sail the same basic track back. Use a paddle or your kicker if you can't make the turn. Better yet, take an experienced sailor with you.
Don't get close to anything while you're trying to learn. The wind will blow the boat around when you are not moving enough to maintain steerage. Always leave twice the amount of space required to get your kicker started and regain control of your boat.
Finally, if you think the boat is so fouled with growth as to impact steerage, you need to get it cleaned asap. Yes, growth can impact steerage, sailability, speed, etc. If your boat is dragging around it's own ecosystem, you have a problem.
Your question about where the rudder needs to point is intriguing. Your rudder control is like your steering wheel in your car. Imagine you're on a road that leans hard to right, or there is a strong cross wind from the left. You would apply a slight pressure to the left to keep the car on the road, but not crank the wheel hard to left. This is true while sailing, as long as the boat is moving fast enough to maintain steerage. The water rushing past the rudder allows you to steer. No movement, no steerage. If you are moving slowly, and crank the rudder hard over, the result might be more drag than steer. You'll get a feel for it in time. To answer your question, pick a fixed object, compass point, etc and steer a straight course toward it. The rudder will be basically in line with your course, with a slight bias to correct for lack of sail balance. Try to pick a course on a reach initially. Also, I would suggest limiting your exploits to 15 knots or lower wind speed. Maybe even 10 knots at first.
Sail straight on a reach, adjusting your sail trim to get a feel for it. Once you've gotten to the end of that course, try to come about and sail the same basic track back. Use a paddle or your kicker if you can't make the turn. Better yet, take an experienced sailor with you.
Don't get close to anything while you're trying to learn. The wind will blow the boat around when you are not moving enough to maintain steerage. Always leave twice the amount of space required to get your kicker started and regain control of your boat.
Finally, if you think the boat is so fouled with growth as to impact steerage, you need to get it cleaned asap. Yes, growth can impact steerage, sailability, speed, etc. If your boat is dragging around it's own ecosystem, you have a problem.
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