Help. No power to engine control pannel

hewebb · Aug 3, 2013

[FONT=&quot]I would check for a ground wire that is corroded or has come loose.[/FONT]

Stu Jackson · Aug 3, 2013

Eric, "all stock: most likely means you haven't replaced the wiring harness connectors. Our C34 Critical Upgrades includes many issues that are pertinent to your boat:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

You have to trace HOW the power gets to your panel and follow that wire to the source of power (i.e., the batteries) and most usually through the switch. Only YOU can figure out how your boat is wired, 'cuz stock means different things to different year models.

Good luck.

Skipper · Aug 3, 2013

The M-18, an otherwise stunningly reliable motor with a soothing rhythm, is notorious for the minimal power wire in the harness. Corrosion will compromise the circuit in the fashion you described.

Jump the power wire from the batt to the panel for testing. If that's the culprit, I would leave it in the harness inert, and simply run a second, larger guage marine-grade wire.

Bill Roosa · Aug 3, 2013

There is a fuse on most panels. On the front labeled "xx amps" twist to remove the cap and the fuse comes out with it.

Stu Jackson · Aug 3, 2013

It's usually not the wire (i.e., harness) it's the stupid trailer connectors they used. If it's electrical, 99% of the time it's a connector.

woodster · Aug 3, 2013

there was some discussion a while back on the wiring harness connector being suspect for this kind of problem dint know the thread but maybe Stu Jackson can help find it ...he is very up on this as i remember....

regards

woody

opps to late lol

Skipper · Aug 3, 2013

Stu Jackson said:
It's usually not the wire (i.e., harness) it's the stupid trailer connectors they used. If it's electrical, 99% of the time it's a connector.

Yes, sorry for omitting that. I assumed that if the wire were replaced the connectors would be too. The problem with only replacing the connectors is that a decades-old wire of minimal guage will cause other issues as well in a starter circuit due to lack of amperage. Better to replace the whole wire, especially since it's rather easy to do. Also check the ground wire.

However, you can test the impedance of the wire with the appropriate meter, and save replacing it if by luck it's still good.

Old Skool Neil · Aug 3, 2013

What Stu said.

weinie · Aug 3, 2013

No need to replace the whole harness. Here's what I did.
1. Disconnect the orange wire at the alternator and tape off.
2. Connect a heavy gauge (battery sized) wire from the alternator to the starter (or house battery as some here prefer).
3. Disconnect and remove the ammeter. Take the red wire running from the starter to the ammeter and connect it to the ignition switch so that the panel is energized when the key is turned. Install an inline fuse near the starter if there isn't one already.
4. Use the wire from the other + terminal from the ammeter to power a new voltmeter in place of the ammeter. You can leave the other end where it is at the ignition switch and it will tell you your battery voltage even when the key is off or switch it to the other post on ignition switch so it goes on with the key. Use the ground wire and light bulb wire from the ammeter for the new voltmeter. The orange wire that was going to the ammeter may be taped off as you already disconnected the other end.

Skipper · Aug 3, 2013

Old Skool Neil said:
What Stu said.

Aha! A picture is worth all the words. Someone else said, "stock means different things to different year models", and that is very good advice.

On my M-18, the wiring is connected directly to the control panel, with no interim "trailer" connectors. I guess Bristol recognized the inferior integrity of such a setup, and eliminated it, or Universal made a change after mine was built in 1984. The wiring is (was, before I replaced a couple of them) original, for it still had mfg tags, engine room paint, etc on it, and there's no sign of alteration.

When Stu said, "connectors", I thought he meant the connectors on the rear of the panel and at the engine.

Stu Jackson · Aug 3, 2013

weinie's advice is well taken. If you still have an ammeter in your cockpit panel, then his recommendations are necessary if you want to keep charging your batteries properly. If you have read the Critical Upgrades topic link I posted earlier, then there will be links within that to find out much more about proper boat charging systems.

Your current (NPI) may be a different issue, since it sounds like a bad connection. You can fix that and keep sailing.

If, however, you still do have an ammeter in your cockpit panel, please let us know and we can provide more links to how you can fix this inherently poor OEM installation. Many of us have spent many years figuring out what the issue is, and, more importantly, how to FIX it.

Let us know, and good luck.

weinie said:
No need to replace the whole harness. Here's what I did.
1. Disconnect the orange wire at the alternator and tape off.
2. Connect a heavy gauge (battery sized) wire from the alternator to the starter (or house battery as some here prefer).
3. Disconnect and remove the ammeter. Take the red wire running from the starter to the ammeter and connect it to the ignition switch so that the panel is energized when the key is turned. Install an inline fuse near the starter if there isn't one already.
4. Use the wire from the other + terminal from the ammeter to power a new voltmeter in place of the ammeter. You can leave the other end where it is at the ignition switch and it will tell you your battery voltage even when the key is off or switch it to the other post on ignition switch so it goes on with the key. Use the ground wire and light bulb wire from the ammeter for the new voltmeter. The orange wire that was going to the ammeter may be taped off as you already disconnected the other end.

Stu Jackson · Aug 3, 2013

Eric,

Here are some

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Engine_Harness_Upgrade

Then go here:

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical

And here (which is one of those):

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical_System_101_-_Good_LINKS_from_the_Message_Board

Read up some, and then get back to us.

weinie · Aug 3, 2013

Time Out said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice,

As far as the trailer connectors go which my boat does have, I was aware of the corrosion issue with them and had inspected/ cleaned them in the past. They still look good and were not the source of the problem (although it wouldn't hurt to eliminate them in the future)
Am I correct in my thinking that the best way to eliminate them would be to cut them off, install ring terminals on all the wires and then reconnect them on a terminal strip

As was mentioned by several people the problem was a badly corroded ground cable going to the engine block. After cleaning up the bolt/surface on the engine where it attaches and installing a new cable everything is working as it should.

With regard to the ammeter I do still have one, again I have read that it is a poorly designed system but I haven't gotten around to that project yet. Any more info/links on the voltmeter upgrade would be great.

-Eric

As far as I know, the only problem with the "trailer connectors" were that you had the full current of your alternator flowing through the undersized wiring causing the connectors to melt.

However, if you re-route your alternator so that it doesn't utilize the wire harness, you will not have that issue. The other wires in the should be easily able to handle the current that goes through them (like the oil pressure sender wires, etc). Therefore, you don't need to replace wire harness (unless the other wires and connections are faulty).

The quickest fix as I stated in my above post is to:
1. Disconnecting the orange alternator output wire and re-routing the alternator output directly to the starter or battery and
2. Energize the panel either using the existing red wire or a new wire from the starter to the ignition key switch.
3. Add the voltmeter afterwards. I used the one from catalina direct. I ended up replacing all my gauges after my tach and fuel gauge both crapped out on me.

Glad you found the problem though!

ETA: one other thing I would change is the inline fuse holder on the yellow/red starter wire. That's the wire that runs from the start switch on the panel to the starter motor. Mine pretty much disintegrated and caused a lot of intermittent starting frustrations before I pinned down the problem.

Stu Jackson · Aug 3, 2013

Again, weinie's right. All I'm suggesting is that you completely understand what the issues are before you start removing and replacing wiring.

YOU need to redesign YOUR electrical system.

We've provided you the information.

Now it's: Your boat, your choice.

Getting rid of the ammeter is much more than simply switching a few wires.

Good luck, happy reading.

PS: The alternator output wire should go to the house bank, not the start (reserve) bank. That's why, that's all.

Old Skool Neil · Aug 3, 2013

Melting was only one of the problems. Corroded, high resistance connections were and are a huge issue as my picture shows.

weinie · Aug 4, 2013

Glad to have you back Stu. Missed you for a while there.:cry:

pogo2 · Aug 7, 2013

just went thru the same

I just went thru the same thing last week, check the ground wire on the front of the M18, and the wire connections. Then right between the alternator/ starter there is a nut with the power line, Thick red, check to make sure that nut is tight. 13mm socket should fit it, it did mine. I have a 1987 M18 on a Newport 30

Help. No power to engine control pannel

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