Hi there, Here is my problem: I've just caught the sailing bug and I'm looking to purchase a boat that is rugged and comfortable at sea. I've bought numerous books and searched the internet trying to find a suitable boat. I've just started sailing(taking lessons) and with everything I do, I go into it fully. I wanted to learn to sail on my own boat to get the feel of it and to get to know her. I plan on sailing solo to Alaska and hopfully to Mexico along the west coast of the U.S. and Canada one day. I would like to have a vessel that was capable. I live on Vancouver Island and will start by sailing in and around the area but would like to eventually venture into the open ocean when I get some experience. I've looked a various boats and read some reviews on the Catalinas, Cape Dorys, Hunters etc. I wanted to post here to get some advise from long time skippers on what kind of boat to focus my attention on. I think that a size of up to 30' would be good. I would appreciate any books or websites that would give me a good review on some prospects. I am by no means wealthy so cost is another factor. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Cheers
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Sabre, Island Packet and Valiant,
Rugged full keel heavy displacment hulls are best for serious passages. The production boats you mentioned just won't cut it. I know, I own one and would never ever consider them serious enough for blue water. Go to boat shows, read and talk to owners of those 3 excellent boats I mentionedl. There really is a difference. Have fun
Rugged full keel heavy displacment hulls are best for serious passages. The production boats you mentioned just won't cut it. I know, I own one and would never ever consider them serious enough for blue water. Go to boat shows, read and talk to owners of those 3 excellent boats I mentionedl. There really is a difference. Have fun
A few more
I would agree, with the exception of Cape Dory, its at the bottom of the Pardey's list and cheaper than most. Also consider Pacific Seacraft, Hinckley, Hylas, Morris, Mason, Swan, Oyster, Amel, Shannon, Gozzard, Hallberg-Rassy, Westsail, and many others, although most are a bit large for solo work. Personally, I wouldn't mind having an older Pacific Seacraft Mariah (small and tough). Stay away from high-production charter-fleet stuff.
I would agree, with the exception of Cape Dory, its at the bottom of the Pardey's list and cheaper than most. Also consider Pacific Seacraft, Hinckley, Hylas, Morris, Mason, Swan, Oyster, Amel, Shannon, Gozzard, Hallberg-Rassy, Westsail, and many others, although most are a bit large for solo work. Personally, I wouldn't mind having an older Pacific Seacraft Mariah (small and tough). Stay away from high-production charter-fleet stuff.
More Preparation Than Boat Choice
In the low thirty foot range, there are many boats capable of that trip. I would cconsider one with plenty of sail area for light air work. To that basic boat, you will need to re-rig, get new sails, add storm sails, add ground tackle, add fuel tankage and possibly water, add self steering gear, solar panels and high seas radio. Do whatever you need to make sure the rudder, electrical and mechanical systems are up to spec. Then, you can go after a lot of local cruising. Better to have a 'production' boat well outfitted than a 'blue water' boat not. You are on the right track, just keep looking and asking questions. You should figure an investment of about the same as the used cost of the boat. To save money, get a cheap one needing work since you will be replacing much of it anyway. Figure two to three years of solid weekend work. Take a deep breath and go for it. RD
In the low thirty foot range, there are many boats capable of that trip. I would cconsider one with plenty of sail area for light air work. To that basic boat, you will need to re-rig, get new sails, add storm sails, add ground tackle, add fuel tankage and possibly water, add self steering gear, solar panels and high seas radio. Do whatever you need to make sure the rudder, electrical and mechanical systems are up to spec. Then, you can go after a lot of local cruising. Better to have a 'production' boat well outfitted than a 'blue water' boat not. You are on the right track, just keep looking and asking questions. You should figure an investment of about the same as the used cost of the boat. To save money, get a cheap one needing work since you will be replacing much of it anyway. Figure two to three years of solid weekend work. Take a deep breath and go for it. RD
Smaller and cheaper
Most the mentioned boats are > 30ft, and many fairly expensive. For a smaller, older and cheaper vessel, look at a Norsea 27, a Pearson Triton (28ft) or Vanguard (32ft), an Alberg 30 or 35. In the Pacific northwest you see a lot of Cascades in these sizes. Multiple examples of each of these have circumnavigated. Sailing boats isn't like driving a car; sailboat hulls don't "wear out" over time if they're maintained. (Their sails and equipment do though.)
Most the mentioned boats are > 30ft, and many fairly expensive. For a smaller, older and cheaper vessel, look at a Norsea 27, a Pearson Triton (28ft) or Vanguard (32ft), an Alberg 30 or 35. In the Pacific northwest you see a lot of Cascades in these sizes. Multiple examples of each of these have circumnavigated. Sailing boats isn't like driving a car; sailboat hulls don't "wear out" over time if they're maintained. (Their sails and equipment do though.)
Pacific Seacraft Orion??
There is one for sale in Mobile,AL for $45,000. I assume that ther are simular deals on the left coast. We have a Pearson 323 that is a Rugged coastal cruiser that might work for you. They seem to be going for $30-40,000. If you are more like Thoreau a Pacific Seacraft 25 might work. Smaller equals cheaper and easier to get into small coves etc. My brother had a PS 25 and sailed in the open Pacific around Guam for a couple of years. He said that even with wave tops higher than his mast the PS25 always felt safe and under control. The little diesel burned about a pint an hour!!! I think that it was a 8 hp yanmar. Full keel and shallow draft makes it a natural for gunkholing or bluewater.
There is one for sale in Mobile,AL for $45,000. I assume that ther are simular deals on the left coast. We have a Pearson 323 that is a Rugged coastal cruiser that might work for you. They seem to be going for $30-40,000. If you are more like Thoreau a Pacific Seacraft 25 might work. Smaller equals cheaper and easier to get into small coves etc. My brother had a PS 25 and sailed in the open Pacific around Guam for a couple of years. He said that even with wave tops higher than his mast the PS25 always felt safe and under control. The little diesel burned about a pint an hour!!! I think that it was a 8 hp yanmar. Full keel and shallow draft makes it a natural for gunkholing or bluewater.
Welcome to Sailing!
Welcome to sailing, Jack. As an almost neighbor of yours who sails extensively in your home waters, I have a couple of suggestions. First, John Vigor has written a book called Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere which I believe is available through the chandlery on this site. It will give you some very good selections for the boat you describe. Second, your home waters are some of the best cruising grounds in the world, and I highly recommend you explore them before taking off for far away places. This area can be very nicely explored in a coastal cruiser as opposed to a "blue water" boat. The ocean crossers will have some design characteristics that allow them to handle storms at sea. These same characteristics will make them heavier and less responsive and less comfortable to live on than a coastal cruiser not to mention more expensive. A production sailboat like a Hunter or a Catalina in the low 30 foot range would be excellent for exploring our area and a great boat to cut your teeth on. You may elect to go world cruising after a bit--swap out boats then. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Welcome to sailing, Jack. As an almost neighbor of yours who sails extensively in your home waters, I have a couple of suggestions. First, John Vigor has written a book called Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere which I believe is available through the chandlery on this site. It will give you some very good selections for the boat you describe. Second, your home waters are some of the best cruising grounds in the world, and I highly recommend you explore them before taking off for far away places. This area can be very nicely explored in a coastal cruiser as opposed to a "blue water" boat. The ocean crossers will have some design characteristics that allow them to handle storms at sea. These same characteristics will make them heavier and less responsive and less comfortable to live on than a coastal cruiser not to mention more expensive. A production sailboat like a Hunter or a Catalina in the low 30 foot range would be excellent for exploring our area and a great boat to cut your teeth on. You may elect to go world cruising after a bit--swap out boats then. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust H37.5
Welcome neighbour
Welcome Jack, my wife and I sail a Crown 34 aka San Juan 34 aka Sun 1030 out of Sidney. Also have similiar desires as you. We bought a boat large enough to be comfortable on but we know it isn't ready to take us to Hawaii or Mexico. But it is a reasonably fast comfortable safe coastal cruiser for these waters. Love to chat more... David
Welcome Jack, my wife and I sail a Crown 34 aka San Juan 34 aka Sun 1030 out of Sidney. Also have similiar desires as you. We bought a boat large enough to be comfortable on but we know it isn't ready to take us to Hawaii or Mexico. But it is a reasonably fast comfortable safe coastal cruiser for these waters. Love to chat more... David
Cascade's
Take a good hard look at the 29' or 36' Cascade's. These boats are made like a brick (you know what) house. We have a 42' Cascade that spent her whole life in your waters before we bought her in Seattle in 1999 and sailed her to HI. There are several listed in your area for sale on the Yachting World web page.
Take a good hard look at the 29' or 36' Cascade's. These boats are made like a brick (you know what) house. We have a 42' Cascade that spent her whole life in your waters before we bought her in Seattle in 1999 and sailed her to HI. There are several listed in your area for sale on the Yachting World web page.
Good Advice!
Charlie is telling it like it is. Take some lessons, Volunteer to crew on boats at your local marina of choice. Charter a few different vessels for local trips. THEN and only THEN, start looking for the boat of your dreams. You will know when you find YOUR boat. As with many such endeavors, experience is the key. There are a lot of "coastal cruisers" that, when properly equipped, will take you just about anywhere that you want to go. Being a "blue water skipper" is more vital than having a blue water vessel. Jon s/v Parrot Tales, Beneteau 321 Kemah, TX
Charlie is telling it like it is. Take some lessons, Volunteer to crew on boats at your local marina of choice. Charter a few different vessels for local trips. THEN and only THEN, start looking for the boat of your dreams. You will know when you find YOUR boat. As with many such endeavors, experience is the key. There are a lot of "coastal cruisers" that, when properly equipped, will take you just about anywhere that you want to go. Being a "blue water skipper" is more vital than having a blue water vessel. Jon s/v Parrot Tales, Beneteau 321 Kemah, TX
Congratulations with your newly acquired disease
Just pray that this affliction may turn out to be a lifelong one! Is it only my malicious imagination or do I detect just the merest hint of an oxymoron in the statement "with everything I do, I go into it fully" ? Somehow, it reminded me of the perverse claim "to stop smoking is easy; I have done it many times....." At any rate, you've certainly gotten a lot of good advice from the previous responders here. For now, it seems you've got your work cut out: just keep SAILING and stop worrying too much about "saltwater cruisers". Solo saltwater cruising is an extreme sport with a potentially deadly outcome for sailors and would-be rescuers alike. In fact, some of the most experienced solo sailors I know refuse to take emergency beacons along for fear of endangering the lives of others. As long as an extreme sporter needs to ask others what type of equipment to use he or she is probably not yet quite ready for the answer. Have fun! Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull #1)
Just pray that this affliction may turn out to be a lifelong one! Is it only my malicious imagination or do I detect just the merest hint of an oxymoron in the statement "with everything I do, I go into it fully" ? Somehow, it reminded me of the perverse claim "to stop smoking is easy; I have done it many times....." At any rate, you've certainly gotten a lot of good advice from the previous responders here. For now, it seems you've got your work cut out: just keep SAILING and stop worrying too much about "saltwater cruisers". Solo saltwater cruising is an extreme sport with a potentially deadly outcome for sailors and would-be rescuers alike. In fact, some of the most experienced solo sailors I know refuse to take emergency beacons along for fear of endangering the lives of others. As long as an extreme sporter needs to ask others what type of equipment to use he or she is probably not yet quite ready for the answer. Have fun! Flying Dutchman "Rivendel II" (Legend 43, hull #1)
good advice
Jack, I think you got some great advice from Gary and Rick. There have been plenty of production boats that when properly outfitted have crossed oceans. Properly outfitted being the key words. I live on the EastCoast and sail Long Island Sound and the Atlantic travelling as much as possible. You can have the best outfitted blue water boat but your experience is really important. Like Gary says you can have a good coastal cruiser and sail to some really great places. The bluewater boat can come later as you get closer to your adventure and gain experience Good luck Charlie Gruetzner
Jack, I think you got some great advice from Gary and Rick. There have been plenty of production boats that when properly outfitted have crossed oceans. Properly outfitted being the key words. I live on the EastCoast and sail Long Island Sound and the Atlantic travelling as much as possible. You can have the best outfitted blue water boat but your experience is really important. Like Gary says you can have a good coastal cruiser and sail to some really great places. The bluewater boat can come later as you get closer to your adventure and gain experience Good luck Charlie Gruetzner
Thank you !!! for your advise
Thanx Gents! I think I'll become a permanent member of this forum. I know I sound a little crazy for wanting to do this sort of thing, but that is my personality!. I'll be turning 40 this year and I've lead a pretty adventurous life so far. I've done the Skydiving thing and have 40 jumps with 15mins of logged freefall time, I've also aquired my Private Pilots lisense 2 years ago so I understand a little about weather and navigation. I was born in Banff,Alberta Canada and grew up in the mountains. Being first generation Canadian, my family comes from Hull a northern English city that all of my forefathers sailed from. I come from a long line of Deep sea Trawlerman that started at age 14 and eventually became skippers. My Father and I used to sail a 26' Thunderbird around Vancouver Island and I remember being sea sick....
I find that sailing is in my blood and I now have a passion to do it. My plan is to buy a sailboat and go out every weekend to master the technique of sailing (and yes I'm a compulsive, obsessive). I don't own a house and work as a lowly Steam Engineer so I must be completely comitted to some things that I do or I would never be able to afford them. I feel it is part of the adventure eating cans of beans watching your bank account grow toward your goal at the same time reading books on people circumnavigating the world in a sailboat and dreaming of my own smaller but just as important adventures. My adventures to me are a way of being successfull in life, I want to live it to the full. Having memories like driving across Canada to Nova Scotia and back across the U.S. from New york have really broadened my horizons some. So I guess that learning to sail is the next logical progession. Sir Edmond Hillary has climbed Everest, Neil Armstrong has stood on the moon, Boyd and Amundsen have conquered the arctic and I just want my slice of adventure.
Thanx Gents! I think I'll become a permanent member of this forum. I know I sound a little crazy for wanting to do this sort of thing, but that is my personality!. I'll be turning 40 this year and I've lead a pretty adventurous life so far. I've done the Skydiving thing and have 40 jumps with 15mins of logged freefall time, I've also aquired my Private Pilots lisense 2 years ago so I understand a little about weather and navigation. I was born in Banff,Alberta Canada and grew up in the mountains. Being first generation Canadian, my family comes from Hull a northern English city that all of my forefathers sailed from. I come from a long line of Deep sea Trawlerman that started at age 14 and eventually became skippers. My Father and I used to sail a 26' Thunderbird around Vancouver Island and I remember being sea sick....
I find that sailing is in my blood and I now have a passion to do it. My plan is to buy a sailboat and go out every weekend to master the technique of sailing (and yes I'm a compulsive, obsessive). I don't own a house and work as a lowly Steam Engineer so I must be completely comitted to some things that I do or I would never be able to afford them. I feel it is part of the adventure eating cans of beans watching your bank account grow toward your goal at the same time reading books on people circumnavigating the world in a sailboat and dreaming of my own smaller but just as important adventures. My adventures to me are a way of being successfull in life, I want to live it to the full. Having memories like driving across Canada to Nova Scotia and back across the U.S. from New york have really broadened my horizons some. So I guess that learning to sail is the next logical progession. Sir Edmond Hillary has climbed Everest, Neil Armstrong has stood on the moon, Boyd and Amundsen have conquered the arctic and I just want my slice of adventure.
Well said, Calico!
You clearly know how to absorp a bit of wave slap and not lose your sense of direction. Got to warn you though; prolonged exposure to this board has been known to make you end up crossing the ocean on a Huntebenelina! Fair winds Flying Dutchman
You clearly know how to absorp a bit of wave slap and not lose your sense of direction. Got to warn you though; prolonged exposure to this board has been known to make you end up crossing the ocean on a Huntebenelina! Fair winds Flying Dutchman
Thanks for the kind welcome, Rick
It is good to be back home again for awhile. The Vanuatu project was quite rewarding again this year, though at times a bit more eventful than we bargained for. Once I find the courage to fess up to some really bad mistakes (plus the time to write them down) I promise to submit a harrowing tale of almost losing Rivendel II twice on a single day. Yeah, you guessed it, it happened on Friday, August 13th! Fortunately, Rivendel II only suffered a few indignities and no serious damage. In fact, the new hard dodger probably saved our lives as we temporarily managed to use our Legend 43 as a giant surfboard. More later. Flying Dutchman
It is good to be back home again for awhile. The Vanuatu project was quite rewarding again this year, though at times a bit more eventful than we bargained for. Once I find the courage to fess up to some really bad mistakes (plus the time to write them down) I promise to submit a harrowing tale of almost losing Rivendel II twice on a single day. Yeah, you guessed it, it happened on Friday, August 13th! Fortunately, Rivendel II only suffered a few indignities and no serious damage. In fact, the new hard dodger probably saved our lives as we temporarily managed to use our Legend 43 as a giant surfboard. More later. Flying Dutchman
Boat picking
I just went to the local book store to order "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere" by John Vigor, so that will give me some interesting reading and I've been busy checking out some boats that you Gents mentioned. I fell in love with the Pacific Seacraft but the prices are a little beyond me, even for the 25 footers. I first started looking at Catalina 30's but read that they had a few problems .... "Some of the more common problems encountered include deteriorated deck cores, compression fatigue at the mast step, failed wooden spreaders, failure of lower chain plate attachments on older model boats, and leaks and separation at the keel to hull joint. There is also sometimes delamination and damage along the vulnerable deck to hull joint caused generally by minor docking incidents over the years.".... I'm sure no sailboat is perfect but I figure maybe i'd look into something a little more rugged. I think around $25,000 would be my limit unless I went whole-hog and decided to live on it. I just want to say I really appreciate the responses you've given. I'm kind of like a sponge right now soaking all of the info up from you experienced guys (in aviation we call it hanger talk), as there are no hangers in sailing this is the next best thing.
I just went to the local book store to order "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere" by John Vigor, so that will give me some interesting reading and I've been busy checking out some boats that you Gents mentioned. I fell in love with the Pacific Seacraft but the prices are a little beyond me, even for the 25 footers. I first started looking at Catalina 30's but read that they had a few problems .... "Some of the more common problems encountered include deteriorated deck cores, compression fatigue at the mast step, failed wooden spreaders, failure of lower chain plate attachments on older model boats, and leaks and separation at the keel to hull joint. There is also sometimes delamination and damage along the vulnerable deck to hull joint caused generally by minor docking incidents over the years.".... I'm sure no sailboat is perfect but I figure maybe i'd look into something a little more rugged. I think around $25,000 would be my limit unless I went whole-hog and decided to live on it. I just want to say I really appreciate the responses you've given. I'm kind of like a sponge right now soaking all of the info up from you experienced guys (in aviation we call it hanger talk), as there are no hangers in sailing this is the next best thing.
Well CalicoJack, Do You Know This Boat?
If you were hanging over the side, you probably know it well. PS: it's a 26' T-Bird PPS: It had sailed to Central America from SoCal when I bought it 35 years ago. Just goes to show you what you can make passages in... Rick D.
If you were hanging over the side, you probably know it well. PS: it's a 26' T-Bird PPS: It had sailed to Central America from SoCal when I bought it 35 years ago. Just goes to show you what you can make passages in... Rick D.
Thanx Rick!
Thanx Rick! I had to laugh.. Man, sure brought the memories rushing back. I was really young then.. I guess I've finally come full circle.
Thanx Rick! I had to laugh.. Man, sure brought the memories rushing back. I was really young then.. I guess I've finally come full circle.
we have a winner!
I think I've found a winner! I've been checking out the Contessa 26 and think this will be my boat!!! Shes beautiful,the right price,the right size, and she is rock stable from what I've read so far. Any thoughts about the Contessa 26 from you ol' salts?
I think I've found a winner! I've been checking out the Contessa 26 and think this will be my boat!!! Shes beautiful,the right price,the right size, and she is rock stable from what I've read so far. Any thoughts about the Contessa 26 from you ol' salts?
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