Help! Installing Spinlock PX0812

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Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
I have read all the archive stuff and am attempting to install, having a little problem. 1. Are the horn cleats bolted from the bottom or are they screwed into an imbedded plate in the glass. 2. If there are bolts that need to be installed from the bottom, how in the heck do you get to them? Access from the winch access panel is impossible for my pudgy fingers. 3. If there is a plate in the glass, will the screws used to install the horns fit the power cleats? Only thing I see is that the heads may need to be ground down to make the diameter of the head smaller. Photo is of a h26, 1995 model. Inflation needle used for scale. Little help please.
 
C

Crazy Dave Condon

a little dab a doo, a little dab a diss

The screws for the horn cleat are screwed into an aluminum plate which is encapsulated in the fiberglass. You should try to incorporate using one of the holes but doubt you can use both. The one you do not use, fill in with caulk so it will not leak. For the second hole, predrill with a small drill bit to make sure you will get some metal shavings once thru the gel coat and glass. Then drill and tap for the screw you are going to use. Make sure that you caulk liberally and then clean afterwards. Suggest using west marine silicone made by Siliflex. Not a problem emailing me direct and bringing this to my attention. Good luck and if needed, give me a call.
 
G

George

Spinlocks

On the H260 the cleat holes are exactly the same as the spinlocks. Not sure about the H26. Instead of grinding the heads down I enlarged the hole in the spinlock slightly but be careful, the spinlocks are plastic. I've had mine for 5 years and they have never moved. As Dave says, you probably don't need to add a nut and washer from underneath if you tap the hole properly. If you need to drill a new hole use a tap. I've got short fat fingers but found it is possible to add a nut and washer from underneath by first buttering a little caulk on them then sticking them on the bolt and tightening from above. More at this link: http://h260.com/spinlock/spinlock.html
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
OK, sounds like.........

a. Plate in the glass. b. use both holes. c. tap holes to the proper size d. use longer bolts. e. caulk as needed with prescribed caulk. did I miss anything? Thanks.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
Hang on...

The contradiction here about the bolt spacing may be because there are two models of Spinlocks. You should find that the original PX0812 fits the horn cleat spacing exactly (33mm). The new PXR cleats, which look improved (stronger) to me, have the bolts farther apart. They need to be drilled and tapped as suggested. I have the old PX0812, which is what you asked about. The largest PXR is PXR0810 (8 to 10mm line diameter). My 95 H23.5 had no nuts. The 1/4" bolt with the philips head just screws out. The holes in the PXB0812 are smaller than 1/4", so I took a 1/4" drill bit and reamed out the holes in the PXB by hand. With a countersink bit, I deepened one or both of the insides a tiny TINY bit to fit the heads. I think I also ground or filed down the head of the bolt on the forward (bow) end so the two pieces would fit together once the forward part was fastened to the deck. You need bolts that are shorter, not longer, by either 1/2" or 3/4". I forget which. It's in the archives though, but you can see and measure the difference by comparing the height of the horn cleat with the thickness of the power cleat. Here is the spacing for the PX0812: http://www.spinlock.co.uk/images/DrillTemplates/PX0812-1_-_Sheet1.pdf The link below shows the new PXR cleat. They have an adjust dial - yellow in the picture. Also, they're all one piece.
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
Let's Review !

Thanks for the heads up. I bought the older version because they were reported to fit the holes exactly. Me being more of the "break it" instead of the "fix it" type. Does this sound right? a. Plate in the glass. b. use both holes. c. tap holes to the proper size, if needed. d. use SHORTER screws. The depth of the spinlock vs the replaced horn will dictate the lingth. e. holes in the spinlock may need to be somewhat enlarged or countersunk to accomidate the screw heads. f. caulk as needed with prescribed caulk. Anything else?
 
G

George

Spinlocks Again

comment: I found I needed longer bolts because I used the wedges that came with them and I wanted to make sure the bolts went completely through the fiberglass and plate. You'll find the wedges are a good idea.
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
One more time.

a. Plate in the glass. b. use both holes. c. tap holes to the proper size, if needed. d. use correct length screws. The depth of the spinlock and wedges vs the replaced horn will dictate the length. e. If you have long skinny fingers, you may decide to reinforce the cleat by placing washers and nuts on the underside of the cleat via the wench access door. Remember to adjust screw length if you choose this option. If you have short stubby fingers, skip to #f. f. holes in the spinlock may need to be somewhat enlarged or countersunk to accommodate the screw heads. g. caulk as needed with prescribed caulk. Did I miss anything?
 
Oct 22, 2005
93
- - Port Alice
Additional comment-Maintenance

I added the older Spinlocks to my H26 following the instructions below; the holes lined up and they installed easily. Over time they got to be difficult to operate sticking just at the wrong time. Last week I sprayed some dry lubricant on/in them and they work better now than when they were new. Much more responsive.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
Heavens to Mergatroid, don't re-tap

Don't re-tap the holes. You certainly don't want to use even bigger bolts. Get the same size threaded bolts, just longer or shorted as required. Keep the horn cleats and old bolts on-board in case you're underway and break a spinlock and need to put the cleat back on. I actually keep a couple of spare powercleats on board in case I break another one. I don't know how I broke the one. Maybe pulling too hard at an angle. I'm more careful now. Only broke one in 5 years. The new PXRs do look stronger. I wouldn't bother with nuts underneath; my horn cleats didn't have them. George reminds us the 26/260 horn cleats are farther forward than the placement on the H23.5. Mine are close to the cabin top edge so I can work them fine. George, Rick Webb and other 26/260 owners found the blocks necessary to lift them higher (or change the angle) so the sheets can be flicked down to get them to snap to the locked position. I think Rick made his own teak risers. My cleats got sticky after 2 or three years. I took them off the boat, took one apart and compared it to a new spare that I also took apart. The little spring inside had deformed. I carefully bent it back into shape to match the new one and then it's been fine again. The new PXRs look to have better springs. I sent email to Spinlock, asking if I could by a handful of extra springs, but never heard back. Assuming that they're discontinued now due to the new PXRs, I may never get spare springs now. I broke a spring trying to re-form it, but luckily I had the broken cleat so that gave me a spare spring. No matter, I love these so much that I'd buy two new ones every year if I had to. Worth every penny to me.
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
Right, no re-tap.

a. Plate in the glass. b. use both holes. c. if you use the Spinlock PX0812 on the Hunter 26, they perfectly fit the holes of the old horn cleats. Go to the local hardware store and buy the same thread spacing in a different lenght bolt. d. use correct length screws. The depth of the spinlock and wedges vs the replaced horn will dictate the length. e. If you have long skinny fingers, you may decide to reinforce the cleat by placing washers and nuts on the underside of the cleat via the wench access door. Remember to adjust screw length if you choose this option. If you have short stubby fingers, skip to #f. f. holes in the spinlock may need to be somewhat enlarged or countersunk to accommodate the screw heads. g. caulk as needed with prescribed caulk.
 
Oct 19, 2006
337
Hunter 27-3 Brownsville, VT/Mystic, CT
Skip Step e

Using nuts after having screwed the bolts through a tapped plate is a waste of time, IMO. I had to tap some additional holes for my installation & learned the hard way to be sure the initial hole is large enough before tapping. I broke off the tap in the hole & had to redo the entire thing in a slightly different spot. Use lubricant liberally while tapping! BTW - What's a "wench access door"?!?! Sound Elizabethan! ;)
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
Compare photos

If you compare Fitz's H23.5 photo with Mergatroid's H26, with a little imagination, you can see how the H23.5 cleat position is closer to the edge. That's why the risers and wedges aren't required. Offhand, I'm sure more than one of the H26/260 guys here reported their installations needed a riser or wedge. I made a mistake in a previous post. Rick Webb has a H23.5. I'm not sure offhand who it was made a wooden riser.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
I've always wondered...

how the heck those wedges are supposed to be used, for exactly the reason that you show. George - how did you do it???
 
Oct 19, 2006
337
Hunter 27-3 Brownsville, VT/Mystic, CT
George may be right

I think the bolt would be plumb if you flip over the wedge. While you're at it, you could flip over the wench too! :eek:
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
Wedge is made to fit only one way.

There is a circle shaped ridge that matches a circle shaped depression on the cleat.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
Some observations

I hope some of this is useful... George's cabin top arrangement is quite different from Mergatroid's. George's 260 cleat is outboard by the stanchion. Mergatroid's is way inboard by the hatch, and looks closer to the edge than George's. More like Fitz's and my H23.5. Mergatroid - I wonder if you really need the wedge? It's easy enough to install without caulk to test. The test is to stand at the back of the cockpit and see if you can open and close the powercleat by flicking the sheet up and down. Kind of a snapping motion, like with a wet towel aimed at your buddy's butt in a locker room. Or, more PC, like flipping a garden hose or extension cord over an obstacle. Note - I find it harder to operate the cleat first time every time now that I downsized my jib sheets from 7/16" to 3/8", which I did to allow the sheets to fit a small-ish Forespar whisker pole. Wedges - As stated, the wedge has to go the right way up to mate with the cleat. I've always noticed that the holes in the wedge are slots, not circles, indicating that the intention is that the bolts will go through the wedge at an angle, to still be perpendicular with the mounting surface. However, if I hold the cleat and wedge together, I see that the bolts still cannot go into the deck perpendicular. If I flip the wedge upside down, which would require shaving off the raised circles to mount flat on the deck, then it looks like it might work. Some extra reaming of holes may be required. The countersink deepening and filing down/grinding of the head of the forward bolt (through the little piece) might have to be more as well. There is lots of room for the bolt head of the aft bolt. Oh, my boat is 90 minutes away, but I have 4 cleats and 3 wedges in my hand right now. I've bought 8 of these things. Four spares, two on the boat, and two for a friend. I noticed that after a while, they stopped coming with wedges. I see on the wedge itself, two are marked "Use with PX0611", one is marked with "Used with PX0812", but all three are identical. Those raised circles on the wedge that mate with the cleat (the 2nd circle is hardly noticeable), don't actually meet properly when I try to match the wedge with the assembled cleat. When installed on the boat, there is actually a small gap between the two pieces of the cleat. In order to get those raised circles to meet, you'd have to squeeze the two pieces together more than they seem to want to go, but as I said, I had to separate them a tiny bit when installing. Since the smaller raised circle is so small and not raised much, most people wouldn't even notice. George - I don't know if you're near your boat. The profile of the wedge is _nearly_ a right-angled triangle. If you looked closely, you might be able to tell if you mounted it upside-down, or just drilled through the wedge to allow the bolts to go through perpendicularly. The nearly right-angle is between the proper base and the thick end of the wedge. It's a bit subtle though. Another clue is that the wedges came attached to a molded plastic frame (like a toy plastic car model that has to be broken all apart). When you break them apart, you can still see the blemish at these attachment points (one at each end). When installed right-side up, these blemishes would be on top by the cleat. Upside-down, and they'd be against the deck and likely obscured by caulk.
 
Jun 2, 2004
649
Hunter 23.5 Calgary, Canada
Observations #2

I left out some things: There is also a circular depression on the bottom of the _wedge_ to allow more than one to be used together. When I fit two with a cleat, then there's no way the bolt goes through perpendicular to the bottom of the bottom wedge. If all else fails, read the instructions... The Fitting Instructions that come with the Powercleat shows a cleat with two 11-degree wedges underneath. The diagram shows the powercleat horizontal with dotted lines for the bolts perpendicular (vertical) to the base of the cleat, which exit the bottom wedge at a 22-degree angle to the wedge. I had forgotten about the diagram. As I said before, the wedges always seemed a mystery to me. I can't imagine tapping holes at such an angle. I'd be inclined to use the wedge right side up, and drill through it as required, and grind the forward bolt head as required so the two cleat pieces will slide together.
 
G

George

Spinlock Wedges

This is sure a mystery to me. I assure you I had no problem putting them together. A few months ago I contacted Spinlock and they came right back with good support. Why not contact Spinlock support at prosupport@spinlock.co.uk There are no instructions for the wedges but I feel there is a logical solution to this mystery. See these links for more info: http://images.spinlock.co.uk/new_prod/default.asp?page=result&product=cleats&entrynum=4&prodtype=PX http://www.spinlock.co.uk/sitev2/default.cfm?section=1300 http://images.spinlock.co.uk/new_prod/default.asp?page=detail&prodnum=242&ProductArea=cleats&ProductType=PX-W0812
 
Jul 19, 2007
156
Hunter 26 Brookville Indiana
Thanks George

I thought of that. It was after closing time, (England) so I called the US distributor. They said no one had ever asked that question and suggested a block of wood or plastic. They said that the rise was needed on that model cleat so if I could not get the wedge to work, I should elevate the cleat somehow.
 
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