help ! how to remove flange from drive shaft

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Oct 1, 2008
6
Beneteau Oceanis 393 Pensacola
i have a beneteau 393 (2005). have to change shaft bearing. separated the flange on the transmission from the flange on the shaft. removed nut on shaft inside the flange. now i cannot remove the flange from the shaft.

i have tried heating with blow torch and tapping while i have a puller (like a prop puller on the end. it won't budge.

any ideas??
 
Jan 22, 1999
62
Hunter 35 PENSACOLA, FL
Cut it in half -- they are not that expensive to replace.
When you get through fooling around with it - most probably it won't be any good anyway.

RD
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
What I Have Done

...is to put an appropriately-sized socket between the trans side of the flange and the shaft and buy some long bolts, then tighten them up while heating and tapping the shaft. It's always worked for me even tho the first time I tried it, the tension was so tight, I thought the coupling would break before it popped free. This was in a boat with a pretty wet bilge and the shaft had been on for 20 years. (Even if it did break, they are economical to replace.)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It's always worked for me even tho the first time I tried it, the tension was so tight, I thought the coupling would break before it popped free. This was in a boat with a pretty wet bilge and the shaft had been on for 20 years. (Even if it did break, they are economical to replace.)
Unfortunately it's usually not the coupling that breaks it is the transmissions output flange!! These are an expensive repair so don't over do it.
 
Oct 1, 2008
6
Beneteau Oceanis 393 Pensacola
It is the FLANGE that I am trying to remove from the prop side of the shaft, not the flange that goes on the transmission. i have the two flanges separated. bolts are out and the shaft nut is removed. i can not get the flange to back off the shaft.

HELP!
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Remove the prop and the zinc, lift the engine out of the way, pull the shaft to the inside, take it to the shop and put it on a hydraulic press and push the shaft out.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
shaft

They understand what you are doing. They are suggesting using the output shaft on the transmission to HELP remove the flange from the shaft.
Your boat is so new I am suprised that it is that stuck.
My thumb still hurts today from 2 weeks ago when I removed my prop shaft, and shaft flange. I smashed the hell out of it full swing with a ball pean hammer. I even used a slide hammer on the end of the shaft where the prop goes and that thing did not budge. In fact it ripped the threads off of the prop shaft!
My shaft was wasted so I cut the shaft with a grinder and took the flange and the part of the shaft stuck in it back to my machine shop. I put it in a hydraulic press and destroyed the flange, and guess what...that piece of shaft is still in that flange.
CUT the flange with a grinder with a thin disc! The flange is like $100. Then remove your prop shaft. Buy a new flange and have it checked at a prop shop to make sure the flange face is perpendicular to the shaft.
Also don't let anyone talk you into using a slide hammer on it. I could have cracked the output shaft bearing pounding on it.
Also when you say shaft bearing, are you refering to the cutlass bearing near the prop?
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
If you take the shaft off the boat, you can use a wheel puller to pull the flange off the shaft. :)
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
It is the FLANGE that I am trying to remove from the prop side of the shaft, not the flange that goes on the transmission. i have the two flanges separated. bolts are out and the shaft nut is removed. i can not get the flange to back off the shaft.

HELP!
I guess you did not read my first post and follow the link....:confused:

This might help..: Removing Coupling (LINK)


 

tcbro

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Jun 3, 2004
375
Hunter 33.5 Middle River, MD
Hi Bob

Hi Bob,

It's Tom Brown. I used a variation of Mainesail's method several years ago and it worked just fine. Get as much penetrating oil as you can in there, insert something smaller than the shaft diameter (I used a stack of nickels taped together) and tighten the flange screws slowly and evenly around the flange. This will bring the flanges closer together but the shaft stays in place. You are effectively turning the fixed (transmission) flange and the shaft flange into a press. If I had been a little smarter I would have gone to the hardware store and bought longer bolts. As I did it I used the flange bolts that were already there. This required a lot of tightening, loosening, adding more nickels to the stack and retightening.

The keys to this are to get the penetrating oil where it will do some good, lightly tapping the flange with a hammer occasionally during the process and tightening the bolts in small increments evenly around the flange. If you don't go slowly and evenly you risk warping the flange.
 

PKFK

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Jul 12, 2004
206
Hunter 36 Ottawa
:confused:

I looked at Maine Sail's excellent photos and instructions on removing the coupling.

Given that it takes considerable force to remove it, I would think that getting it back on will be interesting - are there any tricks & suggestions for the reverse operation ? (since it will be off the shaft, I think that getting it on STRAIGHT would be a challange ? or will it just slide back on ?)

I want to replace the rubber hose on the stern tube on my boat since it is 20 yrs old and has not been replaced (no leaks, but don't want to have any either !!), and I guess that means the flange has to be removed and reinstalled.

I also noticed that the "key" in the keyway on the shaft is loose - although everything else is tight - the shaft, flange, and prop were all sent to a machine shop a couple years ago to be trued and spin-balanced.

I guess I have 3 questions:

1 - any gotchas on reinstalling the shaft flange ?

2 - do I need to do a re-alignment after reinstalling the flange ?

3 - any ideas on why the key would be loose, and is this a big deal if everything else is tight ?

Thanks,

Paul
 

tcbro

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Jun 3, 2004
375
Hunter 33.5 Middle River, MD
1. Steel wool or light emery cloth will clean the mating surfaces up enough to get them back together.

2. I would think not but check it with a feeler gauge during reassembly to be sure. Alignment is determined by the engine position and the cutlass bearing and you probably didn't change any of that.

3. Is there a set screw over the keyway? If so, maybe the key moved forward or aft in the keyway and is now out from under it.
 
Oct 2, 2006
1,517
Jboat J24 commack
Mother Nature has a way of making them TIGHT and if you get it apart without dammage then cleaning the parts rust free should allow it to go back toghter

The lose key should not be lose BUT it is hard to tell without hands on what is worn

I use scotch brite pads to keep from removing excess metal that would ruin the fit
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,182
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
In Addition to What TCBRO Said..

...I would use some anti-seize in the shaft. I also have a rule no steel wool aboard the boat unless it's stainless or bronze. Emery cloth will clean it up fine. Putting it back on will involve some tapping on the end with a mallet on to a wood block. At least that's how I've done it. I wouldn't worry about the key being loose. I've had that happen a couple of times; the shaft is still in solidly. Also, I failed to mention before that, while heating the flange with a torch, we also used dry ice on the shaft to super-cool it as well. As far as alignment, would want to measure it regardless, so that will determine your course.
 

PKFK

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Jul 12, 2004
206
Hunter 36 Ottawa
Ahhh...set screw.....there is a bolt that protrudes perpendicular to the coupling over the keyway...I will check that when back at the boat....I have never had this apart before and therefore was not sure how it all fits together, but you suggestion makes sense.

Thanks !
Paul
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Ahhh...set screw.....there is a bolt that protrudes perpendicular to the coupling over the keyway...I will check that when back at the boat....I have never had this apart before and therefore was not sure how it all fits together, but you suggestion makes sense.

Thanks !
Paul
When you remove the set screw, with the hole at the top fill the screw hole with penetrating oil and let it soak. It is just another point of access to the shaft.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Some input on couplings

Some input on couplings.

1) If you are removing a coupling that is more than say two years old, depending on bilge moisture, you should not re-use it. Solid couplings are a one time use after they have become "made on" as Mike the manager at H&H Prop refers to it as! Why is this?

When you remove an older coupling you will break a layer of rust free. This rust was your tolerance. A shaft and coupling are meant to fit together very, very snugly. In all my years of boating I have only had one coupling go back on and maintain the tolerance and that boat only had a few months of service on her. Re-installing a used coupling can ruin your shaft. Shafts are expensive coupling are cheap in comparison!

H&H Propeller, the machine shop I use & the largest shaft and prop shop in the North East, fits the coupling to the shaft with a tolerance of .0005". On a properly machined shaft, without any anti-corrosive agent like Tef-Gel, it will slide on about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the way before you experience some serious resistance. This initial fit is often referred to as "lead" meaning they give you a little bit of leeway to get the shaft started into the coupling. The coupling and shaft are machined to exacting tolerances (.0005) so there can be NO wobble or play between the shaft and coupling. Any wobble will cause excessive shaft, key and coupling wear and could eventually lead to a failure.

2) The shaft is usually fine and can be cleaned and re-used. It is the steel coupling that gives up surface material, and this lost layer of rust means you can't re-use it. If the coupling just "slides" back on it is too loose!

3) When reinstalling a new coupling to an old shaft you should always have it fitted and faced by a machine shop or prop shop. H&H Prop charges $65.00 for a fit and face. While you are at it have the shaft trued. Shaft truing is more costly than a just a fit and face but a lot cheaper than a new shaft and it will get rid of any annoying vibrations. Another good practice to eliminate bvibrations is to "lap fit" the prop to the shaft and you could actually do this yourself.

If you hit something and bent the tapered end of the shaft near the prop the shaft is toast and most any reputable shop will not and should not straighten it.

4) When re-installing the shaft you should get it started with the machined in "lead" then lightly tap it home with either a rubber mallet or an oak or maple block protecting the shaft and a hammer. For this job need two people or many trips up and down the ladder. Pound it in while looking in the coupling holes until you see the dimples for the set screws. Don't over do it cause backing it off is more of a paint than driving it in.

5) Shaft keys should fit snugly but not so snug that they are "key bound". If the key has any play have a machine shop make you a new one.

6) Anti-corrosives like Tef-Gel can sometimes aid in future removal but it is no guarantee. As Mike at H&H says about using Tef-Gel or any anti-corrosives/seizes "It won't hurt nothin' but a properly machined shaft and coupling should shave any thing you put on that shaft off as you fit the two together". He says it won't hurt but in most cases it won't help either. You should also not use a neverseize product containing any aluminum, copper or graphite as it can add to galvanic corrosion issues.

Contrary to what Mike says I have been using Tef-Gel and had good to mixed results up to about two years with coupling removal. It does aid some in the removal but does not always mean it's re-usable. I will be pulling my coupling in a few weeks to do some tranny work, and it is also at the two year mark, and this time I will photograph any rust or lack there of.

7) If you can, I can't I have a v-drive, don't replace the coupling with a solid coupling and instead replace it with what's called a "split coupling". This will make future removal and re-install much easier. Even with a split coupling you should still have it fitted and faced after removal. The $65.00 +/- is well worth it.


Hope this helps..

Oh and;

Never use a hammer to pound directly on a coupling that is connected to the tranny. You can damage the bearings and the soft aluminum cases many transmissions are made of.
 

Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,797
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
Maine,

What do you mean by having the shaft trued? Is this a centerless grinding operation. What is the difference between straightening and trueing a shaft? I noticed you painted yours black. Any reason? Why don't they make them from stainless
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,701
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Maine,

What do you mean by having the shaft trued? Is this a centerless grinding operation. What is the difference between straightening and trueing a shaft? I noticed you painted yours black. Any reason? Why don't they make them from stainless
I mean the same thing when I say truing and straightening. To make something true or the act of truing is to correct for an error in this case a wobble or slight bend in a shaft.

I painted it black to prevent surface rust but it could have been pink if I had pink rust inhibiting paint on hand...:D

They generally don't make them from stainless to prevent galling. Galling is what happens when two pieces of stainless bind to each other so hard that it is like they are welded together. With a .0005 fit galling would probably occur on a large number of installations and ruin the two components..
 
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