Help! Frozen Bolt - Elbow

[AXEL]

I'm in the process of trying to remove the exhaust elbow on my Westerbeke 21. Forgetabout trying to unscrew the elbow itself, never happen. The elbow mounts on a small flange that bolts to the block with 3 bolts. Murphy's Law says if you have 3 bolts, two will come off without any problems, but the third....forgetabout it! I've gotten the nut off the 3rd bolt but apparently the flange is frozen to the bolt with corrosion. With the other 2 bolts off the flnage is loose. I've tried WD40. I tried applying heat. Last night I bought PB Blaster and soaked it. Does anyone have any ideas for releasing a frozen bolt?

 

[Capt. Ed]

Let the PB work it's magic . Carefully heat it again ,and apply the PB . Gently tap and hopefully it will come off . WD40 is OK for the small stuff 'but is not for this work .I know you want it off now 'but be patient , let the PB do it's stuff.

 

[AXEL]

Thanks Capt. Ed. I read impressive reviews on the PB last night. It was readily available at Lowes. I also read the same advice about being patient. Right now it looks like heat, PB and tapping are my only options. I also read a Hail Mary doesn't hurt, LoL

 

[Ross]

When it comes time to put it back together remember this and use anti-seize compound.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Let me guess...

it's the bottom bolt. Ours took lotsa PB Blaster, five days, and finally a large screwdriver used as a lever against the wrench (short wrench, little room, lousy leverage on its own).

I figured: it's a sailboat, I MUST have the time...

 

[AXEL]

Stu,
Yep, the bottom one. Ok, thanks....I guess I have 5 days of PB Blaster, lossy leverage and little room (my back hurts) to look forward to.

 

[sailaway78]

PB Blaster

Just got finished removing the shaft coupler on my boat. PB blaster did the trick, but took a few days. It was spray, tap, spray, tap ad infitum. But that sucker finally came loose.
On something really rusted up, it takes some time, but the PB BLaster will work.

 

[AXEL]

N & N thanks, a little encouragment goes a long way especially since it's 37 degrees here on Long Island and I really do not enjoy working on the boat engine right now. I believe the elbow is clogged because I'm getting sea water in the engine block. I have other indications the problem should be a clogged elbow. If the elbow turns out not to be clogged then I have a BIG problem. Moving ahead assuming it's the elbow, I would like to remove & replace and do a few oil changes before I lay the boat up for the winter (then do about 1/2 dozen more oil changes in the spring).

 

[Rick]

Axel, besides your beast of a bolt, you said you have other symptoms that lead to a clogged elbow. Most curious what they are. I know its winter there so it may have to wait. Seawater in the block? Sounds like you might want to check the antisyphon valve while you are working down there. That is supposed to help prevent water going backwards through the elbow and possible into the "cylinders" although you did say block and that could mean different things. A clogged mixing elbow would actually help prevent that process wouldnt it? Unless of course your antisyphon valve has failed also.

Cheers

 

[Hermit Scott]

You have the right idea removing the bolts from the block. I had my mixing elbow in a 100 lb. vice clamped to a 500lb. welding table, a 4' cheater pipe on a pipe wrench and it was all I had to break it loose. I didn't wait 5 days for the penetrating oil to work though.
I have to say I was amazed/disappointed because a month ago my engine looked brand new. I motored it 40 mile and it has sat in the yard for a month now, and every bolt head and any metal that was bare is completely rusted fuzzy. I have to go back and clean all that off and use some kind of coating on the bolt heads. I am thinking of something like liquid electrical tape or truck bed liner coating, something I can peal off of them later if I need to remove them. I heard about this stuff that you put on rusted metal and it turns to a hard black plastic like coating, like it chemically bonds with the rust. If anyone knows what that is I would really appreciate it if you could let me know.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Rusty bolt heads

Sounds odd, given all the work you've done. You might want to consider a bit of Rustoleum on the bolt heads first before anything more exotic or removable.

 

[AXEL]

Rick, this spring I rebuilt my seawater pump. All went well and I saved a lot of money DIY. A few weeks into the season the pump starts leaking. I mentioned this to a friend who asked me when was the last time I inspected the elbow. He said the same thing happened to him. The elbow gets clogged and causes back pressure. The seal on the seawater pump in the weak link. I know about the antisyphon valve. I experienced that too years ago. When it began clogged it flooded the cylenders with seawater. This time I have seawater in the block. I also have noticed the tone of the engine has gotten a lot lower in pitch. Low pitch sounding engine, seawater pump leak, old elbow, backed up exhaust, all lead me to believe it's a clogged elbow. It could be a cracked head, water jacket, head gasket, etc. too and I'm really hopping not. I hopping my logic will lead me to a clogged elbow. I let you all know in a few days when I get the elbow off.

Hermitt, the stuff your talking about is sold in automotive stores like AID or Autobarn. I've also seen it in Home Depot. I've used it on a car as well as my back yard oil tank. It's like a primer. It's supposed to bond with the rust and stop it.

 

[sailingdog]

Hermit—

Look HERE.

 

[Ross]

Hermit—

Look HERE.

Is this product substantially different from "Ospho"?

 

[Hermit Scott]

Saildog has the link to the stuff. That is what I was considering using. The reason why I was thinking of something other than paint is, I baked on engine paint on every surface of the block and all other cover plates other than the head. It was ata machine shop getting redone. I didn't want to bake it becuse the springs were assembled. So I just painted it with engine paint with out the protective baked on layer first. When I started the engine there was a water leak from a hose on top of the block, it looks like the head is rusted through the paint already. I have to clean it and check it though. It could just be from other bare steel that was around it. There were parts I didn't paint to make sure the gaskets sealed properly. Those are going to get corrosionx .
I don't know what would work better, removing the rust off the bolt heads and cleaning them, and then primer and paint, or use the rust converter stuff.
I won't have a rusty engine.

 

[ITMaster]

High temperature Anti-Sieze should go on the bolts, nuts and washers prior to reassembly, use most generously.

Ospho converts Iron Oxide to Iron Phosphate to arrest and stop the oxidation process

Works great, like PB Blaster. That stuff is the greatest for getting exhaust manifold bolts off and other stuff that has been baked and rusted on

I swear by it.

 

[Capt. Ed]

One other product is kroil ,we used it on jet engines ,and it was great . But I am sure PB is just as good . BURR good luck ,take your time ,don't damage anything . Capt. Ed

 

[sailingdog]

Be aware that PB Blaster can damage seals and gaskets, so should be used with some caution and you should avoid getting it where you don't need it.

 

[John Nantz]

Anti-Seize (High Temperature variety)

There were some suggestions about using an anti-seize compound when you bolt the mixing elbow back on.

The latest comment was to use a high-temperature anti-seize compound - and that's a good comment!

The anti-seize compounds with copper or aluminum in them may cause the bolts in the head to seize up because of the high temperatures rather than make them easier to take apart.

Aircraft mechanics use a high-temperature anti-seize compound on some of their engine parts, like spark plugs. I've got a small plastic bottle of Champion anti-seize (made especially for aircraft sparkplugs) that I used on my spark plugs and I use it on the mixing elbow bolts and the coupling threads. When I used the other types of anti-seize stuff on the mixing elbow it seemed to make matters much worse.

 

[AXEL]

Thanks Sailingdog,
I was just thinking about that this morning. I'm starting to get a small puddle of PB under where I'm spraying. I'll have to put a small tray under there to catch the drippings. I'm on day 2 and still no budge. This weekend I'll hit it with the torch again (being careful to wash away the PB and keeping a fire extinguisher and water close by.