Help finding the right boat

[jmackdaddy]

I need some help trying to determine what boat(s) I should be looking for based on my needs.
I recently completed the ASA 101 course on a 39 ft Pearson. One of my big takeaways from the experience is how relatively small the cockpit is for such a large boat overall.
With 4 adults (3 students plus an instructor captain) I would say the cockpit was extremely cramped and moving about was more difficult that I would have expected. Coming from the powerboat world, I know a 39 ft boat would easily accommodate 10+ people and not feel cramped at all.

So I'm looking for sailboats that prioritize cockpit and outside seating space over below deck living space. I intend to do daysailing (no cruising or overnights) in the mid-Chesapeake bay region. So max of 5 ft draft, and looking at 40ft or less, would like something that can easily accommodate 5-6 people in the cockpit, with bimini shade. Below deck, only need a head and a small galley (really just a fridge).
Budget is flexible, but am having a hard time finding any boats like this. The Catalina 275 is the only one I've found thus far, but there aren't many of those available since it's been in production less than 10 years.

Appreciate any recommendations on what I should be looking at.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Newer designs tend to prioritize cockpit space much more than older ones did. You’ll have a budget tradeoff going to those newer models though. Maybe something like a Beneteau 34?

 

[JoeWhite]

I can only comment from my experience.ASA 101 is not sufficient training for a 40ft sailboat. You might consider ASA 104 bareboat level.
I suspect the sailboat you were on was ocean going vessel rather than a cruiser. On a Catalina 36 the cockpit is large enough for 7 or more.
Take your time in selecting your sailboat. Get the largest boat you can afford as your sailing area will expand over the years.

 

[jmackdaddy]

I can only comment from my experience.ASA 101 is not sufficient training for a 40ft sailboat. You might consider ASA 104 bareboat level.
I suspect the sailboat you were on was ocean going vessel rather than a cruiser. On a Catalina 36 the cockpit is large enough for 7 or more.
Take your time in selecting your sailboat. Get the largest boat you can afford as your sailing area will expand over the years.

Thanks - I’m definitely of the buy once, cry once camp and prefer to buy something big enough to meet my needs beyond the next couple of years.
The 101 course was great and I feel comfortable that I could handle the 39 ft Pearson we learned on, but my curiosity is more along the lines of who makes a boat about that size, but cuts out the beds and tables and such that for me will be a waste of space.
Basically looking to see who makes the sailboat equivalent of the large format bowriders and deck boats that have become quite popular in the powerboat world.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

It seems like you are comparing extremes. A Pearson 39 is a very old design that was made intentionally with small cockpit space for safety at sea (less volume to flood a cockpit with a boarding wave). You are describing your desire for an expensive day sailor. Check this one out:
M36 Daysailer by Morris Yachts | A Modern Classic Sailboat
These are very expensive for a single-purpose sailboat.
We don't know your budget, but assuming you come from the powerboat world perhaps a small budget isn't in your vocabulary.

Since you are in this forum, most of us are in that in-between realm where we want a comfortable cockpit AND comfortable cruising accommodations. That's pretty much the vast majority of sailboats that we have, other than the folks with smaller boats that are less than 25' in length. You will find very few of us here who have a lot of experience with highly expensive day sailers.

It sounds like your target length is up to 40'. There are countless Catalina's, Hunter's, Beneteau's, Jeanneau's, etc, etc, that will have very comfortable cockpits but they are also designed with the features that you say you don't want.

It sounds like you should be looking for Alerion , Morris, or something similiar and so much less available on the market without spending a good amount of money.

Alerion Yachts - Gallery

Alerion Yachts offers impeccable quality and timeless look, mixed with just the right amount of performance.

alerionyachts.com

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

If you haven’t considered a center cockpit boat, you might want to as these designs seem to fit your criteria better. The only problem being they are few given your LWL choice.

 

[rgranger]

Maybe you want a cat… like the Wharram Tiki

I see them for sale every now and again.

https://www.wharram.com/self-build-boats/tiki-designs

 

[Tally Ho]

How about a Bene 393? Long cockpit, should hold 6 people, 2 in perch seats, and the helmsman. Every body else sits on the high-side rail.

Greg

 

[jmackdaddy]

How about a Bene 393? Long cockpit, should hold 6 people, 2 in perch seats, and the helmsman. Every body else sits on the high-side rail.


View attachment 217021


Greg

Thanks for the suggestion! Will have to look at one of those

 

[rgranger]

I think the boat you describe is called the Colgate 26

Colgate 26 Sailboats | Safe & Unsinkable Sailboats

With positive foam flotation and durable fiberglass construction, the Colgate 26 is unsinkable. Learn more about the state-of-the-art Colgate 26 sailboat today!

www.colgate26.com

It is mostly cockpit with a small cuddy cabin for a porta potty

 

[jssailem]

I saw the 33' Alerion at the Annapolis boat show. It was a stunning boat. Dressed up as an elegant day sailor. Room and accommodations for an owner and guests. Room to enjoy a sailing afternoon, yet enough conveniences for the owner to stay aboard if the dog steals all the covers at home and you just need to get away.

The cockpit size is a function of the intended use design. The Pearson was designed for ocean sailing with the small cockpit as @Scott T-Bird clarifies.

The newer Catalinas in the 36-38 ft range provide cruising features and space for 4-6 crew/guests. The cockpits are generous with space. If you really want to entertain than a catamaran is like a recreational condo on the water. There you have all the space and features one might desire.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

but my curiosity is more along the lines of who makes a boat about that size, but cuts out the beds and tables and such that for me will be a waste of space.
Basically looking to see who makes the sailboat equivalent of the large format bowriders and deck boats that have become quite popular in the powerboat world.

I was pretty much just thrown off base by the comments above .... basically, there is no production sailboat manufacturer who does this with a boat that is 30 to 40 in length (unless we're talking about a customized racing boat, I suppose). Poster seems to basically be describing something that is all deck, cockpit and sailing hardware, which makes absolutely no sense. Only the daysailers I mention come close to that description, but even they have "beds and tables and such". Basically, when we are talking about boats over 30' in length, every sailboat that I can think of is fitted with some living comfort more than just a head and a refrigerator.

The Catalina 275 that seems to come close to matching the desired description is very bare bones, I'll agree. But it isn't even 30' long much less 40' long. I wouldn't even consider the cockpit comfortable, considering the mid-cockpit location of the traveler. It sounds like the poster is morphing a desire for a roomy and comfortable cockpit into a restriction of livability. When you are approaching 40' in length you don't have to sacrifice interior comfort for cockpit comfort, and as far as I know, nobody does with modern boat design. My Catalina 320 has absolutely loads of creature comforts both inside and outside and it isn't even close to 40' long!

 

[jmackdaddy]

I saw the 33' Alerion at the Annapolis boat show. It was a stunning boat. Dressed up as an elegant day sailor. Room and accommodations for an owner and guests. Room to enjoy a sailing afternoon, yet enough conveniences for the owner to stay aboard if the dog steals all the covers at home and you just need to get away.

The cockpit size is a function of the intended use design. The Pearson was designed for ocean sailing with the small cockpit as @Scott T-Bird clarifies.

The newer Catalinas in the 36-38 ft range provide cruising features and space for 4-6 crew/guests. The cockpits are generous with space. If you really want to entertain than a catamaran is like a recreational condo on the water. There you have all the space and features one might desire.

Thanks for this suggestion! I had never heard of Alerion before but this 33 model is very much what I had in mind as far as the bigger cockpit, less stuff below kind of balance with the design.
I live near Annapolis so might just have to wait until October to see one in person.

 

[BarryL]

Hey,

Welcome to the sailing world.

I understand your desire for a large cockpit and minimum accommodations. There is a current trend of larger 'daysailer' models that seem to be what you want. J boats has a few as well, like the J100. The J 105 might also meet your needs.

In addition to your want's regarding cockpit space, you also need to think carefully about the SAILING characteristics of the boat. Some boats are cruising oriented, and are designed to make sailing quick and easy, but aren't particularly good at actually sailing. Other boats have great sailing performance, but take more effort to put the sails up, down, etc. For example, boats with in mast main sails are very easy to handle, but don't sail all that well. Other boats, like the J 100, have traditional main sails, and may have larger headsails.

IMHO you should talk to some brokers and see as many boats as possible.

Good luck,
Barry

 

[rgranger]

J boats has a few as well, like the J100. The J 105 might also meet your needs.

 

[Davidasailor26]

Thanks for this suggestion! I had never heard of Alerion before but this 33 model is very much what I had in mind as far as the bigger cockpit, less stuff below kind of balance with the design.
I live near Annapolis so might just have to wait until October to see one in person.

They do get my vote for the prettiest boat in the thread so far. One thing to consider - the tiller provides great feel when sailing and moves out of the way when at anchor, but if you’re sailing with a group it could be in the way. Generally I’d probably look at some of the more modern wide stern designs, though they’re not as easy on the eyes.

 

[Randy Rohrbeck]

My Catalina 320 has absolutely loads of creature comforts both inside and outside and it isn't even close to 40' long!

One night at the dock I think we had over 20 people in the cockpit of a Catalina 320. Of course there was a few adult beverages involved.

 

[jssailem]

I think we had over 20 people in the cockpit of a Catalina 320. Of course there was a few adult beverages involved.

there must have been people sitting on people.

That would have been a party of the year event.

 

[tfox2069]

This place is a good start - lots of great thoughts here on what might work for you. I'd also recommend you work with a buyer's broker - they're free to you, the seller pays their commission. The first thing they'll do is work with you to figure out what your priorities are, your budget, and then recommend appropriate boats that fulfill those criteria, then start looking for ones in good shape on the market. Let them do all the culling out of the boats in bad shape, overpriced, etc. They'll get you on some good boats and from there you can decide. They'll also help you with the negotiations and the whole process of buying the boat - which is awesome. I see you're on the Chesapeake. If you're around the Annapolis area I have a great buyer's broker I've used three times now for buying/selling boats. I get nothing for a referral, but would be glad to share his contact info.

Good luck!

 

[rgranger]

... I have a great buyer's broker I've used three times now for buying/selling boats.

You have had a very different experience with broakers than i have had.