Help buying my first larger sailboat

[dailytrek]

I've sailed Hobie 16s for decades....racing them, rebuilding them, selling them but have very little experience with larger monohulls, electronics or motorized boats. I recently was certified with ASA for basic sailing and ocean cruising up to 30 footers. I'm very skilled at historic home restoration and have basic skills with car repair but want to sail more than work on my boat. I live right on the Straits of Juan De Fuca and in sailing paradise which is why I moved here a year ago. I want a sailboat primarily to day sail but also to cruise the San Juans/Pugent Sound/Canadian Islands/eventually venture out into the Pacific and provide myself and/or my partner a place to get away...even just dock side. Our winds are pretty light here most of the time. My lady does not sail but has the desire and I have the ability to teach her. I'm 6'3" and prefer not to be bent over in the cabin or folded up in the berth. Our budget for purchase expenses and getting her into shape for something to last us for a decade or longer is UP TO $50,000.
My questions are:
1. Should I get a smaller less expensive cruiser and learn more about what i want after a year or two sailing the area?
2. What are some good brands and size boat for my needs? I tend to like the blue water, full keel, classic lines of boats like the Cape George and they were/are made right here.
3. What is a good draft depth to stay under?
Thanks for the conversation!
--Christian

 

[capta]

There's about as much similarity between restoring old homes and boatbuilding as there is working on a diesel engine and jet turbines. I'd stick to a well found first boat and learn through maintenance rather than rebuilding. With your budget I think you'll be OK.
Sorry, I can't help you on the specifics of a type of boat in that size range, but be certain you can handle it alone in any conditions. Not just the sailing part, but the docking and anchoring, too.

 

[Terry Cox]

Cruising Sailboat

Hi Christian, our first sailboat was a 1989 H28 that we purchased in 1999. We cruised her around the San Juan Islands for three years. Very nice starter boat for two. We looked at lots of boats and decided that the Hunter brand offered the best value for what we wanted.

In those three years the sailing bug bit me but hard. We decided to get a larger boat so that we could spend more time on the water, go farther and still have the comforts of cruising. So, in 2002 we purchase Belle-Vie, a 1991 P42. She was lightly used and had most everything we wanted.

Since then we have cruised Belle-Vie many thousands of miles all over PNW waters. We just finished a 70 day cruise north to Princess Royal Island looking for Spirit Bear. The closest I got to him was a post card, but it was a wonderful cruise.

The archives on this site have lots of articles that I have authored as well as cruising logs from prior years. You can also read several articles in the Owner Modification section of this site listed under "42". I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have as you prepare for this new adventure.

 

[higgs]

Think while capta's point about working on houses is different than working on boats has truth, I think it does overlook the fact that if you are good at working with your hands, those skills will carry over.

I would not bother with the smaller keel boat that you will probably just be trying to sell in a couple of years.

The Cape Dory might be a good option for you as it is similr to the Cape George, but probably available a lot cheaper. It has blue water possibilities.

Another pretty good older boat, but often overlooked is the Endeavor 32

 

[Cambo]

From personal experience, if you are coming from a small performance boat like a cat, you will want to make sure you get a large boat that performs well.

Some boats are big and comfy and look beautiful, but do not perform and react like you would like. Obviously a keel boat is a very different animal than a Hobie Cat, but one that is responsive and fun to sail will really help your transition.

I have sailed on boats where you can do all the tweaking and adjusting you want, and the benefits are so minimal it is not worth the effort. On "sailing" boats, it always amazes me how responsive a big boat can be to such little adjustments.

 

[Ted]

+1 for Cambo's comments.

You mentioned that the area you sail in typically has light air. To me this would be an important fact to consider when selecting a boat. You might want to consider boats that were designed to be racer/cruisers as they will most likely have higher sail area to displacement ratios you'll need to keep you moving (happily) in the light stuff. Boats like some of the older J Boats, Ericson's, Tartan's and C&C's would be good boats to look at. These types of boat often point higher than a boat designed as cruiser. Typically full keel or modified full keel boats do not point well. Often times sailors new to the sport my not realize that there are many great sailing boats available that are no longer in production. Some of these boats are actually built much better than the new boats being constructed today. What you see advertised in the sailing magazines is only a small percentage of what's on the market. Given a budget, I would personally look for a smaller, quality built boat with good sailing characteristics rather than a larger boat with lots of bells and whistles. Just my 2 cents.

As far a draft is concerned, buy a chart of your intended sailing area and look at the depths in the bays, anchorages and harbors you would like to explore. That will give you an idea of the maximum draft you should consider when looking at boats.

Once you narrow down your list of boats, ask for opinions from sailor who have currently or previously owned one. Their personal observations can be very useful. There are also lots of reviews available on-line. Better yet, try to get a ride on some. Good luck with your search.

 

[shemandr]

I don't know your sailing area, but 4 to 5' draft works pretty well. You can utilize most anchorages and marinas. Most boats around 30' would fit into that range. That is co-incidently a good size for 2 people to handle without undue physical effort or power assist.

As Ted said look for something that sails well. You'll sail more. I would keep some of that budget "Powder" dry for decent sails and or upgraded systems. As you settle into the boat and your use you will know what you need. I personally like a fractional rig as it is easily adjustable and general can be sailed well with a smaller array of sails.

 

[Zed]

Not trying to get you to leave here, but you might also try this forum:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/

I specifically gave you the multi-hull forum on cruisers, since you come from a hobie, and maybe you could find a TRI which fits your bill.

Like this maybe: http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/49014

 

[gettinthere]

I've talked to many a full keel boat owner who comments that they need a LOT of wind to sail, high teens and up.

But a heavy full keeler can be more comfortable out in the open ocean in big seas.

Pick yer poison

 

[David in Sandusky]

Some thoughts

Christian, I say go for your best concept for a boat in your budget. Most "starter" boats will not give you the cabin height you need, and your sailing experience, and recent training qualify you for such a boat.

To get over 6'3" for your budget, you will end up in a boat from the 70's or 80's in the 33 to 35 foot range. We have owned a '77 Hunter 27 for 16 years now, and these boats have much to recommend them. Line up a good surveyor now, because you will need help evaluating the boats you are considering. Have a look at the Cherubini designed Hunter 33, for example.

We have chartered a Catalina 30 with a 5 1/2 foot draft twice in the San Juans. We have never been limited by that draft there (as we would be in Lake Erie). Harbors and anchorages in the San Juans are deep (typically 20+ feet). Don't worry about it!

Like the looks of the boat you buy, and lie down in every bunk you think you might sleep in while looking for a boat!

Good luck, and feel free to ask any question here. This group is unrivaled in experience, wisdom, and the willingness to share it.

 

[scotmcpherson]

I agree with cambo, except I think Christian has stated he's looking for a "getaway" boat. A boat to go chill out on and runaway to for a while. This sounds more like a cruising boat to me than a day sailor. 30 ft can give a couple plenty of space to stretch their legs if it's designed for that.

The alberg 30 and westsail 32 are the strongest boats in this class.

 

[higgs]

I've talked to many a full keel boat owner who comments that they need a LOT of wind to sail, high teens and up.

But a heavy full keeler can be more comfortable out in the open ocean in big seas.

Pick yer poison

I sail a full keeler that does OK, not great, in light wind. She keeps moving. I think the popular characterization is overblown.

 

[Wanderer138]

Hello Christian,

There are two books that are a must-read for someone in your situation:
John Vigor's "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere", and
Greg Nestor's "Twenty Affordable Sail-boats to Take You Anywhere".

Those two books will give you plenty of information to start a proper search. Use them to find boats that fit your sailing style and specific circumstances, e.g., anything with less than standing headroom for you is probably out, check online for prices and you should be able to find several boats that will work for you AND match your budget.

Here are a few more things to bear in mind:

Asking prices for the same boat will vary significantly because of condition, but other factors also come into play. You do not have to pay the asking price; negotiating is OK. Avoid a boat with an unreliable engine, has a rig or sails that are in bad shape or has leaking portlights, unless you're prepared to replace them right away. A marine surveyor is worth the expense but you're also responsible for the cost of hauling each boat being surveyed. A survey does not include an assessment of engine condition. The boat may not be in a location where it can be hauled. Don't forget travel costs and delivery charges (boat may be some distance away from you) as well as sales tax, registration and slip or mooring fees. Fall is a good time to buy boats in northern states as most sellers don't want the expense of winterizing and storing a boat that they don't want any more. Don't be afraid to walk away if the deal doesn't feel right to you. It's still a buyer's market.

Finally, those guidelines and suggestions are based on my own boat-searching experiences. I just bought an Allied Seawind II ketch in decent condition for a little over a third of your budget. It can be done. Good luck.

Peter

 

[bigpapaporsche]

Ideal boat

When we win the Lotto, there is no question that our boat would be the Dana 24. I am sure of the head room, but everything else on your list is there. Your budget of $50,000.00 should be close to doing the job.

 

[enorfleet]

Best advice I got was to get a bigger boat than you think you need. If you hate it, they are easier to sell and if you love it you will start thinking about moving up right away. the Hunter 34s from the 1980s sail very well in light air and are nice and roomy. You should be able to find one well within your price range in excellent condition.

 

[mauruuru]

I will give you the advice I got many years ago and regretted that I did not follow:
Buy the biggest boat you can afford to own and operate. For cruising larger means easier handling in a seaway. More comfort means more fun for everone else on board. If you are cruising you will be living in whatever space you have - with all on board. Bigger- up to your ability to handle (up to 40 ft can easily single hand) is likely better!

 

[frimi_captain]

>>My lady does not sail but has the desire and I have the ability to teach her.

Address this issue first, before investing, as your happiness will be intricately tied up with hers. She should have gone on a couple of PLEASANT extended cruises before you sink much money into a boat. I suggest getting a small cheap boat first. See if she enjoys that. Other wise you'll be doing a lot of single handed sails.

Good luck

 

[msalvucci]

Ted's advice is spot on. We are at the opposite end of the Puget Sound, where the winds are even lighter and the inlets are narrow. The big full-keel boat seldom sail because of the problem with wind speed and pointing.

 

[Charlie98117]

I bought my first boat last year. I started looking in the 27-30 ft range and noticed a common refrain in the ads was "selling her to buy a bigger boat". I decided to get the bigger boat first and couldn't be happier.

I will second the recommendation for a Hunter 34, she sails great in light air, 6'4" headroom, great interior layout and space. The V berth is short for you but the double aft berth is very long. If you want to have a happy first mate I think having extra room in the cabin makes for comfortable cruising.

I looked at Catalina 34s too, they have a nicer aft berth layout but always were priced more for a boat in similar condition to the Hunters I looked at.

 

[Doug Ames]

I think I might disagree on the draft issue. Having returned from a summer sailing the San Juans and Canadian Gulf Islands in our 30 inch draft Seaward 25, I can think of several places where the shallow draft came in handy. Fisherman's Bay on Lopez Island, Garrison Bay on San Juan Island and the back end of several coves in the Canadian Gulf Islands when things got crowded. I would also say that you pay for the WOW factor that comes with those big old full keelers and killer deals might be few and far between where as older Catalinas, Hunters and Beneteaus are much more common and some of them have been nicely upgraded.