What do you call sailing flat? I would like to know where your boat is comfortable. If you have an internal ballast boat like the H260, this would be especially interesting. How do you know your angle of heel, guess or instrument?
Heel
- Thread starter Quoddy
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We like to soak the stanchions a little every once and awhile. If you go down below you can see the fishes through the port lights.
It depends on the boat - some are designed to be sailed flat (mast sticking straight up in the air), others are designed to sail at a given degree of heel. For example, some boats designed for form stability (flatter bottoms) sail more upright; while traditional wineglass cross-section hulls are intended to sail heeled. Our boat, a Rob Roy 23 yawl, seems happiest at about 15 degrees of heel - she heels over that far pretty quickly, hardens up and typically doesn't heel beyond that unless overpowered. In fact, heeling beyond about 15 degrees is one of our indications that it's time to reef. We use a small clinometer to measure heel, and once I'd installed it found that I'd typically been over-estimating angle of heel by 5 degrees or more. Heeling usually increases the waterline length and hence speed.
Inclinometer
I use a small inclinometer, mounted in the forward end of the cockpit. Usually try to keep things between 10 and 15 degrees. This is much more comfortable than 20+, and the boat seems to like this angle best. If I feel spirited, then I sometimes lean on things a liittle bit more, but around 20 degrees weather helm starts getting pretty bad, and around 30 it almost becomes unmanagable. One more thing. When you start getting larger angles of heel, you are working the boat harder, and things are more apt. to break. I broke a forestay last year a few miles offshore, and I can tell you, it was no fun. Not to mention expensive.
I use a small inclinometer, mounted in the forward end of the cockpit. Usually try to keep things between 10 and 15 degrees. This is much more comfortable than 20+, and the boat seems to like this angle best. If I feel spirited, then I sometimes lean on things a liittle bit more, but around 20 degrees weather helm starts getting pretty bad, and around 30 it almost becomes unmanagable. One more thing. When you start getting larger angles of heel, you are working the boat harder, and things are more apt. to break. I broke a forestay last year a few miles offshore, and I can tell you, it was no fun. Not to mention expensive.
As others have said: depends HUGELY on the boat! The Catalina 36 didn't like more than about 15 degrees ("didn't like" as in "sailed slower"), whereas my old Cal 25 loved sailing on her ear - 25-30 commonly. A wide, flat-bottomed boat like a Hunter I would imagine would be fastest with less heel - maybe 15 degrees.
druid
druid
Humorous story about heel - Thump!!!
Never much concerned about heel - whatever feels good to our boat is generally just fine. Returning from Inner Harbor (Balt.) once we were just about home in 20 knots wind - fantastic sail. I gave the wheel to the Admiral so I could see if the head worked properly. While checking the head I noticed we were healing over more and more and picking up speed, as I was nearly looking straight out the port hole to green water. Completed my task and as I was going up the ladder told the Admiral she is way off course. Her reply, "we're going faster this way, the rail's in the water." I mentioned we're nearing "Booby Point" and thin water. Her reply we're fine - 10 feet. THUMP!! At least it's somewhat muddy. She's an intrepid Admiral.
Never much concerned about heel - whatever feels good to our boat is generally just fine. Returning from Inner Harbor (Balt.) once we were just about home in 20 knots wind - fantastic sail. I gave the wheel to the Admiral so I could see if the head worked properly. While checking the head I noticed we were healing over more and more and picking up speed, as I was nearly looking straight out the port hole to green water. Completed my task and as I was going up the ladder told the Admiral she is way off course. Her reply, "we're going faster this way, the rail's in the water." I mentioned we're nearing "Booby Point" and thin water. Her reply we're fine - 10 feet. THUMP!! At least it's somewhat muddy. She's an intrepid Admiral.
Won,t beat an old horse to death but speed and comfort depend on boat and crew. I remeber sailing a beneteau- 26 with the decks awash and loving it but my hunter 30 actually slows down at 25+ and quite comfortable for the admiral at 15-20 for A leisurly jaunt around the bay.
Keerect!
Right on the money, druid. The shop foreman at my Hunter store told me 11 to 15 degrees is optimum for my H26.5.
It depends on the boat
A long time ago I owned an alberg 30 long keel narrow design 20' waterline This boat would heel in a 5kt breeze It was designed to sail heeled and picked up water line with heel. Todays
beamier boats do better with less heel.
A long time ago I owned an alberg 30 long keel narrow design 20' waterline This boat would heel in a 5kt breeze It was designed to sail heeled and picked up water line with heel. Todays
beamier boats do better with less heel.
Heel thanks
Thanks for the response. The reason I asked was Glenn Henderson said flat is fast, for the H260.I wondered what I should be shooting at for optimum heel, as far as the best balance of heel, helm and power.
Thanks for the response. The reason I asked was Glenn Henderson said flat is fast, for the H260.I wondered what I should be shooting at for optimum heel, as far as the best balance of heel, helm and power.
It's not so much the amount of heel as is balance, look at the disturbed water coming off the stern, if it is going off to windward your sailing sideways and have too much weather helm and heel. The proper heel is different for every boat and different depending on sailing conditions. My Hunter Legend 37 needed to be sailed rather flat which required reefing the main @15knts. My Catalina 310 is happy at 15-18 same amount of heel. The weather conditions play such an important role. They need to be understood in a 3 dimensional way. For the Chessy in NW conditions with puffy fair weather cumulus clouds, after a front has moved through, the puffs are coming down at an angle from the clouds they hit the water and bounce off. You can see them coming in the way the light reflects off the water. If they are way off they usually dissipate because they have lifted back off the water, but if they are close than head up into them to minimize the force on your rig keeping you boat sailing flater.
Anyway just something to think about.
Cheers
Anyway just something to think about.
Cheers
The winds in my area are often stiff so I normally see 20º to 25º on the bottom of my H260 compass. To get less heel I need to reduce sail, loosing power and speed, or convince my wife to move out of the comfort of the lee side. She mostly sleeps when I sail and tolerates the heel. She just prefers I limit the tacking. It is rare that I can hold the golden 13º with full sail. The main only has the one deep reef point, so the reduction is severe.
Sailing on an even keel is the only other condition here, no wind, also known as "Swim Call"
Sailing on an even keel is the only other condition here, no wind, also known as "Swim Call"
Everyone has an opinion, but I think right about 15 degrees is perfect, and what a coinky-dink, that is the exact angle of an open-end wrench, so if you don't have an inclinometer, you just hold a wrench up and eye-ball it.
Watch your hull speed
Once you reach around hull speed more force on the sails and rigging will heel her excessively versus going faster, at this point you are trying to make the boat plane and they will only do that surfing on waves. I've seen 12 knots or so surfing large waves but hull speed is more like 7+. I use 20 degrees just as a rule of thumb, after that your rudder starts to work horizontally so more heel requires more rudder to go straight which causes more drag which slows you down. Best to reef so you don't excessively stress your rig for no benefit.
Once you reach around hull speed more force on the sails and rigging will heel her excessively versus going faster, at this point you are trying to make the boat plane and they will only do that surfing on waves. I've seen 12 knots or so surfing large waves but hull speed is more like 7+. I use 20 degrees just as a rule of thumb, after that your rudder starts to work horizontally so more heel requires more rudder to go straight which causes more drag which slows you down. Best to reef so you don't excessively stress your rig for no benefit.
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