Heel Control

LuzSD · May 22, 2013

Chris Patterson said:
All of these guys have given you years of experience in a few posts, and for sure, all that info can be hard to absorb quickly. If it's any consolation, some of us have been sailing for years, and still learn new sail trim tricks daily. I've been sailing mostly for 40 years, and some days, I feel like the biggest rookie out there.......

Chris, what a nice post this is, really good calm advise. It supports the idea of 'when in doubt, let it out......"

Bilbo · May 22, 2013

MacGreg said:
Haha you're right; 'when it comes to boats..." It's a fixed keel. I think theres something like a nearly a ton of lead down there. Which is why I am wondering about the extreme heel in only 15 mph winds...

There are a lot of great answers/responses here. I am going to try all of them. I think it may just be that I need to start controlling the traveler/mainsheet more (or at all). I never touch it. I usually pull it tight and let it swing freely on the traveler from starboard to port as it wishes (when I come about).

I usually single hand and I'm in way over my head already with the tiller, jib sheet and halyard in my hand. I can't imagine messing with the traveler/main sheet as well especially in the gusty winds we get and with this nasty heavy heel that I'm dealing with. It's just too much. .......

There are two halyards (For raising the main and Jib.)
If' I'm single handing, I don't mess with the halyards while I'm sailing. I have the job sheet over the tiller and in hand so that I can release the jib if heel is excessive. I also have the main sheet handy so that I can let that out.
Much of how you should adjust things is relative to your point of sail or which way your apparent wind is coming from but a few things to understand:

If you have a boom vang, adjust that before going out. I think that the boom vang has two purposes. The first is to adjust mainsail twist and the other is to take some of the tension off the traveler system so that IF you need to release the main sail, it's not jammed. You should have a working traveler (for what it's worth) as they are pretty much standard on all C22 boats. If that traveler doesn't slide then your main sheet is way too tight. The traveler can be set so that it slides a bit to either side when you tack and your main sheet can be a bit loose so that the boom swings to either side some more when tacking. This may make a big difference in your heeling.

Understand your jib sheet cars. They adjust twist on the foresail. For example, If you want less heel, move the jib cars back. This puts the center of force on the jib sail lower and less heel. The foresail is a sort of wind power amplifier for the back side of the main. If it's too tight, it slows the boat and gives you unnecessary heel.

The combo of jib and main twist in the sails an have a big effect on your heeling issue. This paired relationship is also important later on as your confidence wants more speed. The amount adjustment of these basic controls will change your comfort and your speed.

I may rub some wrong but I feel that experienced sailors often speak of trimming for the most speed as being safer. But, if you aren't sure of the use of a particular control, this could potentially be dangerous. As an example, there's nothing quite like an accidental hard jibe with a very flat main.
Your boat doesn't really need to heel more than 15 degrees in 15 kts of wind. If you are heeling too far then maybe try sailing with jib alone until you feel safe and you understand the controls of that sail. Then reef the main and learn to sail with those two together.

Also, learn to use tell-tales on your sails and read the Windex if there is one up on the top of your mast.

Your own suggestion of getting a trained first mate is a good one. Ask questions as you need.

DeniseO30 · May 22, 2013

Silly question; Does your boat have a topping lift? Do you release and stow the TL when you are underway? I've seen more then a few people new to sailing that thought the TL is supposed to be tight all the time!

kuriti · May 23, 2013

Fyi, those "bubbles" in the forward part of the sail is called luffing. I suspect phil knew this, so i am adding this for your benefit as you read other posts. In general on any point of sail, you can let your mainsheet out until the sail starts to luff, then tighten up until the luff is gone, then just a smidge more. You will see the luff go away and with a little bit more line you'll feel the power in the sail, then cleat.

They say learning on a dingy is better than a big boat and i think this is a good example. Small changes are hidden by large keels.

Chris Patterson · May 24, 2013

I'd be surprised if there even IS a topping lift on the boat, as most are add on's on this boat. Most of those images do indeed represent a lift, but I would think that the boat just has a simple pig-tail. Which should also be unclipped. It is, right?

DeniseO30 · May 24, 2013

https://sites.google.com/site/catalina22experiment/

Chris Patterson · May 25, 2013

Yeah, that just kind of entered my mind. See if you don't have a short piece of cable on your backstay that's about a foot long, that clips into the back of the boom. This little piece holds up the back of the boom while you raise the sails, and then afterwards it should ABSOLUTELY be disconnected.

Ill designed piece of junk in my opinion, but there's no use in getting into that..

DeniseO30 · May 25, 2013

Loosen the TL so weight of the boom sets the mainsail then pull it tight with your main sheet line. then make sure the TL is still loose. ALSO you want to flatten the sail more by stretching the foot with the outhaul. You will see a difference in higher winds. The topping lift will make the sail baggy if you keep it tight and yes you will heel allot more. I owned my boat 2 years before I got used to heeling now I can "bury the rail" even when solo and not freak out.

http://sailing.about.com/od/learntosail/ss/Toppinglift.htm

Also there's a saying "When doubt; let out" If the boat is heeling you let out (not let fly) the main sheet thereby dumping the wind out of the sails. a 100% jib may be too much also until you get more experience. Suggest a small maybe 35% jib and one reef in 10-15. again UNTIL you get more experience.

Chris Patterson · May 25, 2013

MacGreg said:
I don't have a "short piece of cable" but there is a line and a clip nearly exactly like the one pictured below that clips to the rear of the boom and runs all the way to the top of the mast. I've never touched it because it doesn't seem to effect anything. The sail still seems to behave normally and swing out 90 degrees when on a dead downwind run etc. I could be wrong.... So you're saying after mainsail's raised disconnect it? whoops... Would this really effect heeling though?

Ah ha. We're on the right track I think. Denise said it, and yes that piece of cable, or line that runs from the end of the boom, to the top of the mast is indeed the topping lift. And left alone, more often than not the sail bags, and the boat heels. There's the possibility I suppose, that a prior owner put a permanent topping lift line there, but as a rule, there's a block at the top of the mast, and the line runs back down to deck somewhere. Loosen that.

DeniseO30 · May 26, 2013

Seriously, if you don't know what a Topping lift is and how to use it; In all kindness I say

please, get some help from someone that knows a little bit more.

When under way, going into the wind, raise the main first, lift the boom with the topping lift and loosen the main sheet. when the Main halyard is tight and the luff is taught, loosen the topping lift or detach it from the boom, center the main sheet (hopefully your still going into the wind) Then, pull the mainsheet until the mainsail leech is tight. if the sail is not shaped well see if the out haul is tight and pulling the foot of the sail aft. These things are the most important things to do to get the mainsail ready for sailing. In 10 -15 wind I would be using a reefed main for a new to sailing person.
You tube has hundreds of sailing how to videos check them out! http://youtu.be/7Ay4tyvObtQ

Stu Jackson · May 26, 2013

With no topping lift, your boom will drop into the cockpit when you take down your mainsail. That "pigtail" is called a boom lift, and should never be connected unless the sail is down.

Given your previous experiences, it seems that the issue you are dealing with is the tenderness of the boat. A C22 is LOT different in handling than an Ericson 27, as you now know.

Reef, reef, reef.

If you still have trouble with the names of the different parts, check your owners manual (if you don't have one, either Pat Royce's Sailing Illustrated or the C22 Association website should help) or buy Sailing for Dummies, it's a pretty good book.

kito · May 28, 2013

We took our c22 out saturday. We had 10-15 mph winds with gusts up to 25. I didn't even attempt to raise the main. Had a blast just flying the 110 jib and still had the rails in the water a few times. I just don't have enough experience to deal with both sails up in gusty conditions. We actually learned a lot just running the jib. Focusing on just one sail and getting it trimmed and finding the sweet spot will help later with both sails up. We found that with the wind coming at the 2 o'clock (starboard) and 10 o'clock port, the boat really took off. Maybe just try the jib next time in gusty conditions...especially on a c22 masthead rig. Btw, there were only 2 other sailboats out saturday. They were maybe 27 footers with full canvas and we were keeping up with them with just our jib.

DeniseO30 · May 31, 2013

Great Now learn to reef that main and use a smaller jib on the little boat instead of being the man vs the sea! REEF IT DAMMIT! lol you will find out why it's better.
Good luck!

agprice22 · May 31, 2013

Release your jib sheet just before you turn into the wind to come about. If you keep it sheeted as you come about, it will get pressed hard against the shrouds and may hang on them. Release your traveler. Turn through the wind smoothly. Trim your main. Haul your leeward jib sheet. Trim your traveler. Trim your outhaul and cunningham to get your telltales streaming. If you get the outhaul and main trimmed right, you should have no weather helm.

Use the cunningham and outhaul to position and adjust the depth of the draft of the sail. Other than sailing a run, these adjust the depth and position of the draft and will change the power of the sail and the amount of heel and weather helm. The further back the draft lies in the sail, the more weather helm. The deeper the draft, the more power, and the more heel.

3 main points of sail:
Beat (into the wind)
Reach (across the wind)
Run (away from the wind)

Learn this dance, and you can keep your boat relatively flat even in high winds because you will control the power. My Admiral appreciates that!

Andrew

Heel Control

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