Heard on the radio today

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BobM

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Jun 10, 2004
3,269
S2 9.2A Winthrop, MA
Amen Brother...

Read this entire post...I run out of Hingham and Boston and sometimes feel like a squirrel trying to cross the road out there. I strive to stay some distance from fast moving tugs and ships but from what I gather, a good rule of thumb is a 1 mile distance and avoid crossing anyones bow....'lot of dead squirrels out there'...
...pass me an acorn. We got buzzed by the high speed ferry to P-town last year. I didn't know I could change the boats direction by 180 degrees that fast! :eek:
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
Roger, would this sitch pass the "okay to call on radio by Roger's rules" test? :)

We are racing, if you'd like to call it that, and because it's foggy and we're good sailors, we've got the radio on 13 and 16 in addition to the race channel. Actually, we are drifting in the fog, totally becalmed, at dusk, at the mouth of the Portland Ship Channel.

Right on the schedule we were provided at the skippers meeting, a tanker pilot radios that she's coming out of Portland Harbor headed for the G1 buoy. A few minutes later, the Scotia Prince reports she is on her way in, also headed for G1.

There are lots of racers out there but we can't see any of them. One of them reports his lat/long to the pilot, and she instructs him to start his engine and get out of her way. By his lat long, I figure he is two-tenths of a mile to our starboard. At that point, the skipper and I decide we, too need to get out of the way and we fire up the engine.

We took our position, and headed to the G1 buoy. "What are you nuts?" says I. "Nope," says skipper. "They're gonna come close to the buoy but they won't hit it."

We motored to the buoy, stood off by about 20 feet, and radioed the pilot.

"Thank you Rita P. I see the double return on my radar, stay put and you'll be fine."

Tanker passes to sea. Scotia Prince passes toward port. We could barely see the bow wave of the tanker, that is how foggy it was.

We motored back to our original position, radioed the events to the race committee, and decided to risk getting DSQ'ed (seeing as how everyone else who started their engines retired from the race).

We nearly did get DSQ'ed at the redress hearing, but someone finally made the point that we did the right thing, and let our finish stand. There is now specific language in the sailing instructions to address situations where a racer needs to get away from commercial traffic.

So Roger, radioing the tanker pilot was okay there, right? She didn't seem to mind hearing from us. :)
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
I was out that way later and, although I wasn't paying any attention to the tanker at that point, I think he just went straight out over the horizon. After all, that's where the oil is:)
So he had to alter a bit to stb to line up with the Southbound lane at some point and that would explain his desire to keep the sailboat to port. What you can't see on the section of chart you uploaded is that the traffic scheme splits at just about the point where you think the incident happened. If the sailboat is the other side of the shoals from where you've drawn it, we're looking at deep water and a potential confusion about which way the ship will alter when it clears the shoals and is free to maneuver. The sailboat could be in a place where going north will take him back across the Eastbound lane and going south will put him in the Southbound lane and staying put will leave him in an area where the ship will be maneuvering... So what are his options? He can try to read the captains mind, hope he remembered the pilots' security call correctly, make a wild guess or pick up the mic and ask...

I admit, I am stretching things to put the sailboat in the best light because I'm trying to make the point: even with the best of intentions and competent handling "just leave them alone" isn't always an adequate plan. I'm not suggesting, and looking over the posts, nobody else is either, that the wise boater do anything but take all reasonable actions to stay well clear of shipping at all times. But, in the course of navigating there may well be times when a danger of collision will develop despite everyone's best efforts. At those times, bridge to bridge radio can be a powerful (and sometimes legally required) tool for collision avoidance. While making that call may make a mariner look silly, not making it could be tragic.

--Tom.
 
Jun 8, 2004
853
Pearson 26W Marblehead
Ships Tankers Ect:

I have to agree with Stu Jackson and Ross here. I just stay out of the way of any ship thats moving. period. There are lots of container ships and tankers coming in and out of Boston
Harbor.
 

Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Ships Tankers Ect:

Is there any part of "constant bearing, decreasing range" Not understood by anyone.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
Roger, radioing the tanker pilot was okay there, right? She didn't seem to mind hearing from us. :)
"She" (there's only one in Portland) used to own the house next to me.

I don't know where this "Roger says it's bad to use the radio." business comes from. Actually I do know. It's not from me but from words people put in my mouth. 16 is a scarce resource. Using the radio needlessly is not a good thing. I sure would have been using it in the situation you describe.

Tom's scenario is possible and would have been an appropriate use of the radio but I don't think the tanker was that far out. If anything he was closer in. I also think that the tone and substance of the exchange would have been quite different. Besides, the tanker had already made several security calls saying which channel he would be using. I just didn't pay attention because he wasn't a factor for me. I was miles behind him in the islands.
 

Gail R

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Apr 22, 2009
261
Pearson 34 Freeport, ME
I'm just messin' with ya, Roger. Just one Mainiac messin' with anothah.

Threads like this are why I tend to favor the northern half of Casco Bay. When we get close to Portland Harbor or the Ships Channel, we keep a close ear on Ch 13 and 16 and you are absolutely right that there is PLENTY of warning when a ship is coming or going. A briefing on the comings and goings of commercial traffic is part of the Monhegan Regatta skippers meeting, and I take notes. I tend to be a bit overcautious when it comes to those things -- drives the skipper crazy. But sometimes, it also relieves the boredom that sets in during that race, especially when it's one of those light air races.
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
Because it is THE fundamental collision avoidance observation.
Okay, good question. It is the most fundamental observation. Of course, making bearing does not guarantee a safe cross. (Honestly, I don't think you're arguing that it does :)-- I just point it out since the discussion seems to be going back to fundamentals).

e.g. with the boat at "X" below (granted a stupid place to be) he needs to take into account a possible turn to port on the part of the tanker.


Yes, yes, I've read Roger's post -- I'm not suggesting that this was the way things really were. I'm just using it as an example.

--Tom.
 

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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Tom this is a situation where the boat knows where the ship cannot go and is best served by heading there without crossing the ship's course.
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
Tom this is a situation where the boat knows where the ship cannot go and is best served by heading there without crossing the ship's course.
It's not in the picture but the pilot station is more or less on a course directly over the "X". The question is "what will the ships course be?". It is all deep water once he passes the buoys and the tanker could choose almost any course between NNE and S. The tanker might reasonably go straight, turn S or ENE... The only place the ship can't go is onto the shoals, but the sailboat probably can't get there before CPA.

--Tom.
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
While coming up the ICW just south of the Savannah River I could see a parade of inbound container ships in the river channel over the tops of the trees on shore. Each one had hailed potential ICW crossing traffic over channel 16 at least a mile and a half from the crossing. There was a gap of about two miles between two and I hailed both by vessel name. They advised me to cross the leader's stern perpendicular to the river channel quickly and then hug the North bank until entering the ICW cut northbound.
Everything worked out well as we all knew what our actions were to be.
Steve
The reason for this announcement specifically on the ICW crossing of the Savannah River is that these huge container ships bow/stern waves will essentially remove MOST of the water from "Fields Cut" portion of the ICW just north of the Savannah R. Fields Cut has 'just' 6 ft. of water at low tide ... and these ships bow/stern waves will pull out another 3ft., leaving only 3ft. of water in the cut. The ships are responsible for damages caused by this 'drop' of water; hence, their constant announcements. Once the ships pass when your 6 ft. keel is laying over in 3ft. of water ....THEN you get hit by a 4-6 ft. wall of water refilling the "cut".
Dont ask how I know this. :)
 

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
I would LOVE to call a few freighters and ask them where the HELL they're going so I can stay out of their way. There's the Shipping Channel, then there's Where They're Going, and they often aren't the same thing! I've often watched a freighter coming straight at me, with me saying "Ok, ANY TIME NOW, you'll make the turn around the Bell Bouy. ANY TIME NOW..." and a few times they never DID make the turn. So calling them on the radio (or even better, Harbour Control) can sometimes make things a lot easier.

BC Ferries are even harder to figure out, especially in Active Pass, where they're commonly on the wrong side of the channel.

druid
 
N

NC-C320

Get Out of My Way...

I would LOVE to call a few freighters and ask them where the HELL they're going so I can stay out of their way. There's the Shipping Channel, then there's Where They're Going, and they often aren't the same thing! I've often watched a freighter coming straight at me, with me saying "Ok, ANY TIME NOW, you'll make the turn around the Bell Bouy. ANY TIME NOW..." and a few times they never DID make the turn. So calling them on the radio (or even better, Harbour Control) can sometimes make things a lot easier.

BC Ferries are even harder to figure out, especially in Active Pass, where they're commonly on the wrong side of the channel.

druid

Hey, me too...... After all I'm a sailboater. It's my water and you have no right to be here. And don't give me any flack about crossing too close ahead of you freighters. Because I'm a sailboater and what I'm doing is important and what you are doing is not.;)
 
N

NC-C320

Re: Get Out of My Way

Hey, me too...... After all I'm a sailboater. It's my water and you have no right to be here. And don't give me any flack about crossing too close ahead of you freighters. Because I'm a sailboater and what I'm doing is important and what you are doing is not.
Oh yeah, I forgot to add, we sailboaters always, always steer straight courses at constant speed, and never will be eratic or confusing as viewed from your freighter.

So give me a call and let me know what are your intentions....and if you don't call, I'll call you (in reality a good thing as long as call traffic doesn't clutter more important communications.)
 

Dave D

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May 7, 2009
143
hunter 26 Jordan Lake
"Guest"
you write as if you're a commercial captain. Could you enlighten us on standard procedure in a shipping channel and near buoys? I think it would be an interesting and informative discourse to have here. We could all benefit by having an idea of what the other guy is most likely to do.
 
Jan 1, 2009
371
Atlantic 42 Honolulu
No attitude..just trying to make the point that we share the waters.
It's a good point. Worth repeating. IMO, already well made and received. The problem is you're preaching to the choir. And, again IMO, building up a straw man to do it. None of the posts here have suggested acting in anything but the most conservative, careful and non-confrontational manner possible when dealing with commercial shipping. Nobody is suggesting challenging, racing, demanding rights or otherwise bothering shipping.

In my case, for example, 99% of the time I'm in complete agreement with Ross and Stu et al. and in the one percent where I think we disagree, that disagreement isn't about the goal of staying clear. I believe there is room for productive dialogue in the areas where we differ, but I can't see much good coming from posting multiple polemics about the things we agree on.

--Tom.
 

druid

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Apr 22, 2009
837
Ontario 32 Pender Harbour
Hey, me too...... After all I'm a sailboater. It's my water and you have no right to be here. And don't give me any flack about crossing too close ahead of you freighters. Because I'm a sailboater and what I'm doing is important and what you are doing is not.;)
Nice attitude. But my post says I would LOVE to stay out of their way IF I KNEW WHERE THEY WERE GOING! Typical newbie mistake: you see a freighter (doing 20+knots) 5 miles away South, coming straight at you. You alter course to the east, so you're well clear. MISTAKE! The ship turns 45 degrees to stbd and you're right in it's path, 1/2 mile away. Or, you assume he WILL make the turn and he doesn't...

Once in Active Pass there was a BC Ferry (they're 600+ft long and go 20+knots) coming into Active Pass. I put on the motor and moved as quickly as I could to the stbd side of the pass. Ferry honks horn. I'm going as fast as I can, perpendicular to the channel, for the stbd side. More honking. I'm almost on the reef. More honking. Finally, I do a fast U-turn, go to PORT, over to the WRONG side of the channel, and the Ferry passes me to stbd, completely on the wrong side of the channel, barely missing the reef.

So, Esteemed Guest: what would YOU have done?

druid
 
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