Head toilet not flushing to holding tank.

[chriscampbell]

I'm sure this has been answered here, but I've searched and not coming up with answers yet.

I have a new-to-me Catalina Capri 26 with a Jabsco manual pump toilet. I tested the operation to see if it would bring in lake water and pump it to the holding tank. With a few strokes of the pump I was able to get some water coming in, but I'm unable to pump it out to the tank. The water just sits in bowl and when I use the pump, it just makes a squishing sound as it pumps against the contents.

What should I check first? Is there a valve that could be closed preventing the exit?

 

[Joe]

The "joker valve" is the most common failure. If you google the jabsco website you will find the manual for your unit, within the owner's manual will be a section on "troubleshooting"... there you will find answers. So... start googlin' !

If you search "Jabsco MSD owner's manual" you may get lucky.

 

[kappykaplan]

The "joker valve" is the most common failure.

 

[chriscampbell]

I thought the joker valve controlled backflow? This feels like blockage of some kind. Is it possible the joker valve is fused shut or something?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

A manual toilet has a lever on the top of the pump that lets the user choose between WET and DRY mode. WET brings in water and pushes bowl contents out , DRY only pushes bowl contents out without bringing in any water It won't do either one very well if it's not completely in one mode or the other.

If only"some" water water is coming in when it's in the wet mode, check the inlet thru-hull to make sure it's fully open.

How old is the toilet? Has the boat been in salt water? If so, there could be a sea water mineral buildup in the hoses. If the toilet is at least 2 years old, and none of the above applies, IMO replacing the pump--which many Jabsco manual toilet owners do annually as "preventive maintenance"--is the solution to your problem.

Jabsco manual toilets have always been an "entry level" toilet, but as long as ITT owned Jabsco, it was decent quality. But 10- 15 years ago, ITT spun Jabsco off to a company call Xylem Flow Control, which is a US company but does no mfrg in the US. Everything Jabsco sells in the US is now made in Mexico with parts and components sourced from China and other Asian countries. The resulting quality definitely ain't what it used to be!

--Peggie

 

[chriscampbell]

A manual toilet has a lever on the top of the pump that lets the user choose between WET and DRY mode. WET brings in water and pushes bowl contents out , DRY only pushes bowl contents out without bringing in any water It won't do either one very well if it's not completely in one mode or the other.

If only"some" water water is coming in when it's in the wet mode, check the inlet thru-hull to make sure it's fully open.

How old is the toilet? Has the boat been in salt water? If so, there could be a sea water mineral buildup in the hoses. If the toilet is at least 2 years old, and none of the above applies, IMO replacing the pump--which many Jabsco manual toilet owners do annually as "preventive maintenance"--is the solution to your problem.

Jabsco manual toilets have always been an "entry level" toilet, but as long as ITT owned Jabsco, it was decent quality. But 10- 15 years ago, ITT spun Jabsco off to a company call Xylem Flow Control, which is a US company but does no mfrg in the US. Everything Jabsco sells in the US is now made in Mexico with parts and components sourced from China and other Asian countries. The resulting quality definitely ain't what it used to be!

--Peggie

Thanks, Peggie. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the original toilet from 1993. To my knowledge it's a freshwater boat, but I just got it.

When in wet mode, I got water from the lake. But, it only filled the bowl and does not exit. Dry mode will not flush it out either.

 

[jviss]

Your holding tank could have a clogged vent. Or, you could have a Y-valve somewhere, set to pump overboard, with a closed seacock.

 

[chriscampbell]

Here is the only photo I have

 

[Tally Ho]

Pump may need to be serviced (or replaced), joker valve is probably shot, discharge hose could be plugged (hope it is not that one ), vent could be plugged…

Jabsco doesn’t make the most robust pump, and I don’t think it is the original, given the color difference between the base and the rest if the toilet bowl and pump. PO probably had issues with it and replaced it.

Raritan is the way to go for a manual flush toilet.

Greg

 

[BTC1984]

Look for a hose running from the top of the waste holding tank to a vent somewhere on the boat. Mine is in the anchor locker. If the vent is blocked the system is full of air pressure. Remove the hose and you will known if there was pressure because you will hear a “pop” of air. This is proof your vent is clogged. I used a shop vac to unclog the vent because taking out the vent was hard to get to. The vacuum pulled the clogging stuff back toward the tank and into the vacuum. I also sprayed the vent with a hose to break free anything clogged up against the screen. Also I have a Groco pump and the pumps are not that complicated, the rebuild kit is easy. But it’s also not a bad idea to simply buy a whole new pump if the one you have is low quality.

 

[jviss]

A quick check to see if it's a clogged vent is to just take off the pump out cap and try the head. If that works, then it's a clogged vent.

 

[chriscampbell]

Thanks, everyone. I left lake water sitting in the bowl overnight and then went back out last night and tried again. This time I continued pumping longer than I did before, and eventually it did start flushing the water away. It's not exactly efficient, but at least it cleared the bowl after several pumps...so partially functioning. I'll continue to look into vent and valve issues.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Temporary thread highjack

Look for a hose running from the top of the waste holding tank to a vent somewhere on the boat. Mine is in the anchor locker.

If you mean it goes to a vent hru-hull in the anchor locker, that's ok. But if the vents INTO the anchor locker, you wouldn't be able pass a USCG inspection 'cuz that violates USCG regs that require all waste holding tanks to be vented to the outside of the boat. Reason: organic When organ material breaks down in anarobic conditions it not only generates toic stinky gasses, it also generates methane, which is flammable.

(I now return y'all to the thread)

--Peggie

 

[jviss]

it also generates methane, which is flammable.

Interesting. Isn't methane lighter than air? So, not such a risk?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

I just reread the whole thread...and while I'm convinced that a new pump is the best solution, this is one time when replacing the joker valve might help.

Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's the joker valve's LEAST important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet. Here's why:

On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston so less and less vacuum is created, requiring more and more pumping to move bowl contents...and maybe impact the toilet's ability to bring in flush water too.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

I'm betting it's been years since the PO replaced the joker valve and joker valves are a lot cheaper than a new pump, but it's worth a try before replacing the pump. Don't even consider rebuilding the whole pump...rebuild kits cost almost as much as a new pump and is a PITA job...replacing the pump only requires removing and replacing a couple of hoses...all of which are prob'ly overdue for replacing anyway.


--Peggie

 

[chriscampbell]

I just reread the whole thread...and while I'm convinced that a new pump is the best solution, this is one time when replacing the joker valve might help.

Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's the joker valve's LEAST important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet. Here's why:

On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston so less and less vacuum is created, requiring more and more pumping to move bowl contents...and maybe impact the toilet's ability to bring in flush water too.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

I'm betting it's been years since the PO replaced the joker valve and joker valves are a lot cheaper than a new pump, but it's worth a try before replacing the pump. Don't even consider rebuilding the whole pump...rebuild kits cost almost as much as a new pump and is a PITA job...replacing the pump only requires removing and replacing a couple of hoses...all of which are prob'ly overdue for replacing anyway.


--Peggie

Thank you! I probably had to pump 10 or more times to get the water out of the bowl. It sounds like that could be the culprit.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Interesting. Isn't methane lighter than air? So, not such a risk?

Outside the boat, no risk at all...but in a confined area in the boat, where would the methane rise to?

--Peggie

 

[jviss]

Outside the boat, no risk at all...but in a confined area in the boat, where would the methane rise to?

--Peggie

Well, the anchor locker is likely not airtight. I was thinking it's similar to LNG vs. propane on boats, the former not requiring a locker, solenoid valve, etc.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

hank you! I probably had to pump 10 or more times to get the water out of the bowl. It sounds like that could be the culprit.

That info was an excerpt from my book see link in my signature below--just click on the title (my publisher's idea), which is a bit misleading 'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.

--Peggie

 

[chriscampbell]

Replacing the joker valve helped a lot with the pumping efficiency. Super fun job, too. Haha. The old valve was bad as you predicted and no longer closed completely.

Is there a valve or seal in the pump body that I should replace as well, or lubricate with oil?