Hi every one ¡ Not long ago I posted inquiring about C.D.I furling and seems almost every one is happy with it.Reading trough the installation manual,it specify`s at the very begining that you have to have toggles at both end´s of the forestay.Have tou modified the stem ball ?I´ve looked in the archives and it´s never mentioned. Thanks again for all your help. Ulises.
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re: CDI Furler
I've been using a CDI furler for 8 years on an H26 and mine has a turnbuckle at the lower end of the forestay but none at the top. Jack Bristow SV Discovery
I've been using a CDI furler for 8 years on an H26 and mine has a turnbuckle at the lower end of the forestay but none at the top. Jack Bristow SV Discovery
cdi
On the 240 the forestay has a turn buckle on the bottom and the t connection at the top of the mast. The furling sleeve "luff extrusion grey PVC" and drum pivits around the forestay. The turn buckle is for tentioning the forestay only, having one at the top would be redundant, not fun to adjust etc,.
On the 240 the forestay has a turn buckle on the bottom and the t connection at the top of the mast. The furling sleeve "luff extrusion grey PVC" and drum pivits around the forestay. The turn buckle is for tentioning the forestay only, having one at the top would be redundant, not fun to adjust etc,.
Ulises
On the ole style Hunter 26, it used a larger headstay wire than the current on the Hunter 260. The stemball fitting at the top of the headstay is fine. What you may be referring to is removing the other end by cutting off the stud or threaded portion and then running the forestay through the furling extrusion. Once it exits, then you need to put on a Stay Lock turnbuckle stud. Are you putting a CDI system on your boat and do you have it already. If you are purchasing it from CDI directly, tell Joe that you need the STay Lock and he will send you one; otherwise, you will need to get one in order to finish the installation which you can get from a good marine sourse for example the HOW chandlrey along with the furling system. You will need to modify your jib by removing the hanks, adding # 6 luff tape, and of course a sunbrella cover on the sail. The sail loft will need to know which way you want to furl your sail out as to which side the sunbrella cover will go on. Crazy Dave Condon
On the ole style Hunter 26, it used a larger headstay wire than the current on the Hunter 260. The stemball fitting at the top of the headstay is fine. What you may be referring to is removing the other end by cutting off the stud or threaded portion and then running the forestay through the furling extrusion. Once it exits, then you need to put on a Stay Lock turnbuckle stud. Are you putting a CDI system on your boat and do you have it already. If you are purchasing it from CDI directly, tell Joe that you need the STay Lock and he will send you one; otherwise, you will need to get one in order to finish the installation which you can get from a good marine sourse for example the HOW chandlrey along with the furling system. You will need to modify your jib by removing the hanks, adding # 6 luff tape, and of course a sunbrella cover on the sail. The sail loft will need to know which way you want to furl your sail out as to which side the sunbrella cover will go on. Crazy Dave Condon
Stemball fine,but...FF3
since the boat is 8 years old(always sweet lake water) ,do you think it may be wise to order a new forestay with the shortened mesurements and link plates . And Dave I dont have the furler yet,do you think that I can get the FF3 still? I am worried about windage with the FF4.
since the boat is 8 years old(always sweet lake water) ,do you think it may be wise to order a new forestay with the shortened mesurements and link plates . And Dave I dont have the furler yet,do you think that I can get the FF3 still? I am worried about windage with the FF4.
New rigging
I have been told that rigging should be replaced after about 10 years. Not sure if that is absolutely necessary, butit might be something to think about. I just replaced my rigging on my 94 26 -- but that was because I replaced the mast, not sure I would have without that. But, it feels good to know that I have all new standing rigging.
I have been told that rigging should be replaced after about 10 years. Not sure if that is absolutely necessary, butit might be something to think about. I just replaced my rigging on my 94 26 -- but that was because I replaced the mast, not sure I would have without that. But, it feels good to know that I have all new standing rigging.
Dave
I'm planning to add a CDI FF2 to my '95 H26; I know the stay has to be shortened and a 6" link plate added at the lower end so the drum will clear the deck (see pic, from a friend's boat). But I was told that the lower threaded end had to be a swaged fitting because a compression fitting (norseman or stalock) would be too fat to fit through the furler drum. I was planning to shorten from the top, using a stalock stemball. Was I misinformed?
I'm planning to add a CDI FF2 to my '95 H26; I know the stay has to be shortened and a 6" link plate added at the lower end so the drum will clear the deck (see pic, from a friend's boat). But I was told that the lower threaded end had to be a swaged fitting because a compression fitting (norseman or stalock) would be too fat to fit through the furler drum. I was planning to shorten from the top, using a stalock stemball. Was I misinformed?
FF-2 on '94 H-26
The FF-2 was the recommended furler for my H-26 in 1994. The only caveat was that the lower swage fitting had to have the points filed down in order to fit down the center of the extrusion, and you had to put a pull string down the middle to pull the swage fitting thru. This info was from CDI. I did not shorten the stay or otherwise modify the rig. After a year or two I noticed that the drum was occasionally touching the stainless plate behind it. I took out the bow U-bolt and filled in the top with a small steel plate welded in. I then drilled the hole 1/4" forward of normal and slightly extended the turnbuckle to maintain rig tension. See the picture.
The FF-2 was the recommended furler for my H-26 in 1994. The only caveat was that the lower swage fitting had to have the points filed down in order to fit down the center of the extrusion, and you had to put a pull string down the middle to pull the swage fitting thru. This info was from CDI. I did not shorten the stay or otherwise modify the rig. After a year or two I noticed that the drum was occasionally touching the stainless plate behind it. I took out the bow U-bolt and filled in the top with a small steel plate welded in. I then drilled the hole 1/4" forward of normal and slightly extended the turnbuckle to maintain rig tension. See the picture.
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Marcel, I like the FF-2 on your boat as it....
...fits in nice and snug there. Mine (came with the boat) is a 4/6 drum and has to be located above where the jib tac attaches because of it's larger diameter. There is a twin metal plate extending from the base of the furler drum to the U-bolt which has the effect of lenghening the head stay six inches. Apparently a number of us never had the head stay reduced to compensate for this. alan
...fits in nice and snug there. Mine (came with the boat) is a 4/6 drum and has to be located above where the jib tac attaches because of it's larger diameter. There is a twin metal plate extending from the base of the furler drum to the U-bolt which has the effect of lenghening the head stay six inches. Apparently a number of us never had the head stay reduced to compensate for this. alan
Post for Tom
My initial post was in reply to Tom who said "I know the stay has to be shortened". Obviously, if you go with the FF-4 you have to raise the drum because of the larger diameter, but if you use the FF-2 you can use the original forestay without modification. Here is a slightly different view in the pic.
My initial post was in reply to Tom who said "I know the stay has to be shortened". Obviously, if you go with the FF-4 you have to raise the drum because of the larger diameter, but if you use the FF-2 you can use the original forestay without modification. Here is a slightly different view in the pic.
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Accident or design ?
Wow ¡ It´s the first time i see this installation and seems like the boat is designed for it .Besides the fact that you dont modify the headstay it keeps the sail in racing style.Seems that you keep the original tension,¿Why do you think it began touching the metal plate and Marcel, what do you mean by"points filled down". Thanks to all your answers. Ulises
Wow ¡ It´s the first time i see this installation and seems like the boat is designed for it .Besides the fact that you dont modify the headstay it keeps the sail in racing style.Seems that you keep the original tension,¿Why do you think it began touching the metal plate and Marcel, what do you mean by"points filled down". Thanks to all your answers. Ulises
Thanks, Marcel...
...this would be good news, although my headstay seems too long already; I have less than 1/4" of threads left, and nearly 10" of mast rake (Hunter specs 6"). I didn't quite follow the mod you described; you welded a piece into the crotch of the u-bolt, then put a hole in it for the pin? How thick was the piece? Do you see any potential problem from offsetting the load that way? Any chance of a closeup or a sketch? Thanks in advance.
...this would be good news, although my headstay seems too long already; I have less than 1/4" of threads left, and nearly 10" of mast rake (Hunter specs 6"). I didn't quite follow the mod you described; you welded a piece into the crotch of the u-bolt, then put a hole in it for the pin? How thick was the piece? Do you see any potential problem from offsetting the load that way? Any chance of a closeup or a sketch? Thanks in advance.
For Ulises and Tom
If you look closely at the picture you can see a slight scuff mark where the plastic part of the spool, which is slightly larger in diameter than the stainless cup, rubbed on the stainless chainplate. This happened mostly motoring, I think, with the sail furled. I could see the furled sail whipping around, causing the spool to touch. Now, I am fairly lazy, so I have my rig tensioned so that I can put that Avibank quick pin into the furler without loosening anything, just putting tension on the mast. That allows me about 320# tension on the sidestays with a Loos gauge, I have no clue what the forestay tension is. I would think that if you increased the forestay tension after raising the mast the rubbing might be eliminated. Someone besides me has to have put a FF-2 on that boat, how did they do it? Anyone? The points are caused by the swaging machine taking a round fitting and making it square. This made the fitting very hard to pull thru the furler extrusion. It was a matter of filing these "points" down a few thousandths of an each to get it to fit thru.
If you look closely at the picture you can see a slight scuff mark where the plastic part of the spool, which is slightly larger in diameter than the stainless cup, rubbed on the stainless chainplate. This happened mostly motoring, I think, with the sail furled. I could see the furled sail whipping around, causing the spool to touch. Now, I am fairly lazy, so I have my rig tensioned so that I can put that Avibank quick pin into the furler without loosening anything, just putting tension on the mast. That allows me about 320# tension on the sidestays with a Loos gauge, I have no clue what the forestay tension is. I would think that if you increased the forestay tension after raising the mast the rubbing might be eliminated. Someone besides me has to have put a FF-2 on that boat, how did they do it? Anyone? The points are caused by the swaging machine taking a round fitting and making it square. This made the fitting very hard to pull thru the furler extrusion. It was a matter of filing these "points" down a few thousandths of an each to get it to fit thru.
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Healthy system
Marcel ,thanks for explaining about the points,anyway,do you think that if you use a sta-lok or norseman swage fitting and cut the stay as C.Dave suggest´s,it would fit inside the luff extrusion ? I am asking because if you have trouble fitting through the normal swage I imagine the sta-lok would roll along with the turnbuckle.Definitly your system looks healthier,but for the welding. I am also posting a link to what I think would complement a safe roller furler system on a isomat or Z mast equiped boat. Ulises
Marcel ,thanks for explaining about the points,anyway,do you think that if you use a sta-lok or norseman swage fitting and cut the stay as C.Dave suggest´s,it would fit inside the luff extrusion ? I am asking because if you have trouble fitting through the normal swage I imagine the sta-lok would roll along with the turnbuckle.Definitly your system looks healthier,but for the welding. I am also posting a link to what I think would complement a safe roller furler system on a isomat or Z mast equiped boat. Ulises
For Ulises
The only reason I did the welding modification is because I did not want to be rigging the boat every time I stepped the mast. I believe that if you hook up the FF-2, and then tighten the sidestays, that there would be enough tension on the forestay to keep the spool from touching anything. But, you would probably have to loosen them to get the pin out to lower the mast. I did not want to do that, hence the welding. I'm not sure what a Sta-Lock fitting would do, but I'm sure CDI would know. Their website is below.
The only reason I did the welding modification is because I did not want to be rigging the boat every time I stepped the mast. I believe that if you hook up the FF-2, and then tighten the sidestays, that there would be enough tension on the forestay to keep the spool from touching anything. But, you would probably have to loosen them to get the pin out to lower the mast. I did not want to do that, hence the welding. I'm not sure what a Sta-Lock fitting would do, but I'm sure CDI would know. Their website is below.
Marcel
I really want to thank you for all the information and since I really dont trailer the boat around, I am going to try it your way. I let you know in a few weeks how it turned out, and about the performance with the new apparatus. Ulises
I really want to thank you for all the information and since I really dont trailer the boat around, I am going to try it your way. I let you know in a few weeks how it turned out, and about the performance with the new apparatus. Ulises
Ulises
What ever you do, you must consider safety. I disagree with Marcel on the use of the Avibank quick release pin. If he is unable to attach the forestay with no tension and then using a quick release pin equals mast drop as I have replaced two due to the above. One fellow was in the hospital for a week. First, there must be tension on the forestay. Second, the clevis pin needs to be secured. I have seen mast failures due to loose rigging and with the avibank pin, loose rigging will constantly jerk the pin and I will tell you what the end result is. It happenned to me on my boat years ago. If the drum is not far enough off the deck, then get two large stainless steel straps longer than provided by CDI. The Sta Lock (you can cut the forestay and apply a stud to it which is a STay Lock)is a good fitting to use if installed properly. If you wish for me to contact you, please advise but heed my warning on loose tensioned forstay and the quick release pins. If intent on using a quick release pin, then at least drill another hole at the end and put a stainless steel clip in as a safety measure. Falling mast into the cockpit is not funny. Crazy Dave Condon
What ever you do, you must consider safety. I disagree with Marcel on the use of the Avibank quick release pin. If he is unable to attach the forestay with no tension and then using a quick release pin equals mast drop as I have replaced two due to the above. One fellow was in the hospital for a week. First, there must be tension on the forestay. Second, the clevis pin needs to be secured. I have seen mast failures due to loose rigging and with the avibank pin, loose rigging will constantly jerk the pin and I will tell you what the end result is. It happenned to me on my boat years ago. If the drum is not far enough off the deck, then get two large stainless steel straps longer than provided by CDI. The Sta Lock (you can cut the forestay and apply a stud to it which is a STay Lock)is a good fitting to use if installed properly. If you wish for me to contact you, please advise but heed my warning on loose tensioned forstay and the quick release pins. If intent on using a quick release pin, then at least drill another hole at the end and put a stainless steel clip in as a safety measure. Falling mast into the cockpit is not funny. Crazy Dave Condon
Dave,Thanks for warning
I am going to see first if it fits the way Marcel has it installed,with a 5/16 clevis pin ,which is the original.I like the idea of not modifying the rig,but be sure that if it shafes,I´ll use the link plates,I´ve never seen a Sta-lock fitting but from the internet pictures,seem´s to me that it doesnt fin in the luff.I have yet to wait for a week or so to receive the sistem and let you know. my mail is uvgd@aol.com I appreciate your concern with safety, as I am sure everyone does. Ulises.
I am going to see first if it fits the way Marcel has it installed,with a 5/16 clevis pin ,which is the original.I like the idea of not modifying the rig,but be sure that if it shafes,I´ll use the link plates,I´ve never seen a Sta-lock fitting but from the internet pictures,seem´s to me that it doesnt fin in the luff.I have yet to wait for a week or so to receive the sistem and let you know. my mail is uvgd@aol.com I appreciate your concern with safety, as I am sure everyone does. Ulises.
Read my post again
I just re-read my post on installing an Avibank pin to secure a FF-2, and I don't see where I said to leave the forestay loose. As I said, I end up with over 300# sidestay tension, and I use a 6 to 1 tackle to bend the mast enough to get the pin in. That being said, it does not matter to the Avibank pin whether there is zero tension on it or 1000#. If you put an Avibank into the proper size hole in a fitting, i.e. 5/16 pin into a 5/16 hole, there is no way for it to fall out. The beauty of this pin is that you have to push a spring-loaded button on the end of the pin in order for 2 retainer balls to retract and allow the pin to be pulled out. If you do not push the button, you can not get the pin out even if you use a hammer, as long as it is sized correctly. These pins were first developed for aircraft use, I first saw them 40 years ago when I became an aircraft mechanic. They are used as is even today, they are FAA approved pins for use without any other retainer. The Avibank Model M is a marine version, made out of stainless steel. The shear factor for the 5/16, which is the pin size for the FF-2, is 12,800#. Now, there are other pins on the market, called Fastpins, they do not have the pushbutton safety feature. If you pull on a Fastpin, it will come right out. The difference? West Marine 2003 catalog, page 857, 5/16 x 2" Fastpin is $9.99, 5/16 x 2" Avibank is $22.99. You can drill a Fastpin and put a cotter pin in it safely. If you drill an Avibank pin, you destroy it. If you don't believe me check the Avibank website link.
I just re-read my post on installing an Avibank pin to secure a FF-2, and I don't see where I said to leave the forestay loose. As I said, I end up with over 300# sidestay tension, and I use a 6 to 1 tackle to bend the mast enough to get the pin in. That being said, it does not matter to the Avibank pin whether there is zero tension on it or 1000#. If you put an Avibank into the proper size hole in a fitting, i.e. 5/16 pin into a 5/16 hole, there is no way for it to fall out. The beauty of this pin is that you have to push a spring-loaded button on the end of the pin in order for 2 retainer balls to retract and allow the pin to be pulled out. If you do not push the button, you can not get the pin out even if you use a hammer, as long as it is sized correctly. These pins were first developed for aircraft use, I first saw them 40 years ago when I became an aircraft mechanic. They are used as is even today, they are FAA approved pins for use without any other retainer. The Avibank Model M is a marine version, made out of stainless steel. The shear factor for the 5/16, which is the pin size for the FF-2, is 12,800#. Now, there are other pins on the market, called Fastpins, they do not have the pushbutton safety feature. If you pull on a Fastpin, it will come right out. The difference? West Marine 2003 catalog, page 857, 5/16 x 2" Fastpin is $9.99, 5/16 x 2" Avibank is $22.99. You can drill a Fastpin and put a cotter pin in it safely. If you drill an Avibank pin, you destroy it. If you don't believe me check the Avibank website link.
Dave...
I'm still not clear on the use of a sta-lock, and Ulises is correct about CDI's instructions. The installation manual for the FF2 (see link, large PDF file) calls for "a toggle at both ends of the forestay" and "a 1/4" or 5/16" swage-on turnbuckle" (page 2). There's also an illustration on page 5 showing and specifying a toggle at the top and a swage fitting on the turnbuckle. I suppose a stemball could qualify as a toggle, since it can move in a wide range of angles, but the torque applied by a furler could conceivably stress a stemball fitting. CDI is pretty emphatic about the swage on the turnbuckle, and although they don't say why, it seems reasonable to assume the diameter of the sta-lock is a problem, along with the fact that it's a threaded fitting, which could be loosened by the action of a furler. Have they told you different?
I'm still not clear on the use of a sta-lock, and Ulises is correct about CDI's instructions. The installation manual for the FF2 (see link, large PDF file) calls for "a toggle at both ends of the forestay" and "a 1/4" or 5/16" swage-on turnbuckle" (page 2). There's also an illustration on page 5 showing and specifying a toggle at the top and a swage fitting on the turnbuckle. I suppose a stemball could qualify as a toggle, since it can move in a wide range of angles, but the torque applied by a furler could conceivably stress a stemball fitting. CDI is pretty emphatic about the swage on the turnbuckle, and although they don't say why, it seems reasonable to assume the diameter of the sta-lock is a problem, along with the fact that it's a threaded fitting, which could be loosened by the action of a furler. Have they told you different?
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