Havre De Grace

RichH · Sep 8, 2007

Consider to go a little 'lower' on the Bay

Harve de Grace, the Sassafrass, the Bohemia all require long 'motoring' trips in the rivers and thier approaches (~1 hour additional) to get to the 'bay proper'. On all of these rivers you will be constantly subject to running the gauntlet of being 'waked' by stinkpots in the rivers and restricted/narrow channels. Being in the far northern bay restricts you to only go 'down' the bay. The water quality at the head of the bay (@ Aberdeen & Sassafrass) is quite polluted usually in midsummer with toxic algae blooms, etc. From all those rivers your anchorages for when sailing 4-6 hours max. will be limited to 3 principal (usually overcrowded) places: Ordinary PT. on the Sass., Still Pond, Worton .... and rarely anywhere 'lower'. Traffic on I-95 (your access to this area) can be gridlocked on weekends by cars waiting to get through the multiple toll boths at the MD/Del border... 3-5 mile backups, Rt. 40 is full commercial, bumper to bumper and has untimed loooooong interval traffic signals. For that typical 1 hour 'boat-drive' in the upper rivers from these places to the 'open bay', you can drive your car in 1/2 that time to Rock Hall, Tolchester, Fairleigh, Worton, etc. on mostly uncrowded roads (Rt 1, 896, 301, etc.) and have double-triple the choice of sailing venue (in multiple directions), probably 3-4 times the areas to anchor/gunkhole nearby with 4-6hrs. sailing time, less traffic, close access to the 'hot-spot' destinations: Annapolis, Baltimore Inner Harbor / Fels Point, St. MIkes, etc. etc. etc. etc. Most folks usually only stay on those upper rivers a year or two, then usually move 'lower on the bay' for better access and venue, etc. Less moorings lower down and slip prices are higher; but, with all things considered you will have less hassle and a vastlly better sailing venue/value. Your choice: being stuck in traffic on I-95/US40 and then 'motoring' in your boat for an additional hour to the 'bay' or driving 1/2-1 hour longer and being ON the bay. Hope this helps

Ross · Sep 8, 2007

Manny, I am less negative about the upper bay

than RichH. First of all I have benn in the same marina in perryville since '99 and have never seen or heard of a toxic algea bloom in the upper bay.As for sailing room, the susquehanna is a mile wide and 6 miles long between Port Deposit and The "Flats". Much of the time the winds are favorable for sailing up or down the channel. The city of Havre de Grace and the city of Baltimore draw water from the susquehanna for drinking water. Major pollution points are at the Back river waste water treatment plant and on the Corsica River in Queen Anna county on the chester. The entire bay is infested with powerboat wakes on week ends. They don't start until about noon and stop about 2 hours before sunset.There is space at Owens Marina in Perryville. Owens is a minimal marina with a bath house a very small store and ice. Electricity is available on some of the piers.Traffic on Rt 40 is never bad unless there is a problem on I95 on a holiday. There is a Food Lion and an Acme grocery store within 3 or 4 miles. The marinas in Havre de Grace are fancier and more costly.

Warren Milberg · Sep 8, 2007

Havre de Grace is

a nice little town - and the name fits. It has a variety of very nice restaurants, marinas, sail lofts, etc. If I were going to keep my boat there, I'd put it in Tidewater Marina. This is a very nice marina and all the people who work there have a great "can do" attitude. Not sure how pricey it is compared to other marinas in the area, but expect it is at the high end. Yet I agree with other posters that I would not like to have to motor up and down that longish channel, and compete with the barges on it, in order to get to the sailing grounds of the upper bay. Depending on your location, I think you'd like to start out sailing from Worton Creek, Fairleigh Creek or Rock Hall as they open a much wider and diverse part of the bay to you.

RichH · Sep 9, 2007

2007 is probably the first year in a very long

time that there has not been a serious toxic algae bloom in the upper bay in about 10 years. The usual sites as indicated by the MDEPA websites are at Aberdeen and at the mouth of the Sassafrass. Since about 2000 when a dog of mine drank the toxic bay water and became paralysed, I usually check the MDEPA website (http://www.dnr.state.md.us/bay/hab/index.html) to see if its 'safe' for a dog or even 'humans' to go swimming in the bay. The dog drank baywater that contained algae containing cyano-bacteria when swimming at Rock Point at Still Pond ... and resulted in a very long and excruciating recovery for the dog. I used to race with the once prolific racing fleets in the far upper bay (mouth of the Sassafras and Middle River) , during the 70s/80s/90s. Yup, Harve de Grace is certainly a nice place; but, there are certainly many more such places down the bay. The highway congestion on most weekends near the far upper bay is simply idiotic. I rather be sailing than going 5mph on I-95 or US 40 and then having an additional 1 hour motorsail to the actual bay.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

I have read the water monitoring link and don't

come to the conclusion that harmful algea is/or has been a serious problem since 2000. Barge traffic on the susquehanna and in the channel is limited and probably does not exceed 5 trips per day. Their speed puts them clear of the channel in about a half hour. The channel is wide and you can run outside the channel with a depth sounder. The barge wakes are not as big as the poorly trimmed power boats.Tidewater Marina is the best on the Susquehanna. There are also good marinas on the Northeast River.

RichH · Sep 9, 2007

Go to ....

the MDEPA website archives. http://mddnr.chesapeakebay.net/hab/hab_search.cfmEnter Blue Greens, etc, and Upper western shore and upper eastern shore ....prepare to see a LOT of documentation data/reporting of same for the past 4 years .... no archives earlier on this site.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

Most of those blooms were in areas that can not

be reached by sail boats. The advise was that if it looked like water it was ok but if it looked like pea soup it was best not to make contact with it or let you four legged friends drink it.Edit to add: it appeared to me that the algal blooms were incidental to the upper western shore and included much of the area that is so highly recommended.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

Manny, I just looked at a map of Pennsylvania

and you can't get to the chesapeake bay from Bucks County, you have to go some where else to start.

That is one gawdawful ride across Philly and Wilmington. You're almost as close to the Jersey coast. Where do you sail now?Everywhere on the chesapeake is good and there are a lot of neat little places to anchor.

RichH · Sep 9, 2007

The vector site of the blooms were ...

but the westerlies and northwesterly blows continually pushed all that crap across to the eastern shore ... lots of it.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

I think that the incidence of algal blooms

is unusual enough to be news and wide spread enough to preclude a point of origin for multiple events. There are likely to be as many in fishing bay as in the area above Pooles Island.

JohnF261 · Sep 9, 2007

Algae, what algae?

I have my boat on the Bohemia and don't have to motor at all to sail. I know it's a long motor to sail from the marinas on the Sassafras. My parents have owned a house at White Crystal (Eastern shore across from Turkey Point) for over thirty years and I have never seen an algae bloom! I've swam in those waters since I was twelve.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

Manny, if you go to

http://ocsdata.ncd.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/AtlanticCoastViewerTable.htmYou can pull up the upper chesapeake bay charts. Be aware that there is a large expanse of water between the Northeast river and the susquehanna river that is called the susquehanna flats. In the summertime at low tide people play volley ball out there. If you are planning to come down for a visit Email me and I will find time to show you around on the water.

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

John I agree, sometimes subjective thinking

interferes with sound scientfic reasoning. there are more water warnings because of sewage spills than because of algal blooms.

RichH · Sep 9, 2007

Manny ....

I live near Dublin-Doylestown PaWhen traffic is light (later at night, early in the AM etc.) It takes me 2 hours and a few minutes to drive to Worton Creek.Friday nights when the rush hour is 'cooling' add another 30 min. Been doing this for well over 30 years.

Mike B · Sep 9, 2007

Eastern Shore

Manny, check out the Eastern Shore as well. We live in Hatfield and it takes us on average 1:40 mins to get to Skipjack Cove on Rt 213 in Georgetown on the Sassafras. Yes you'll have to run on Rt 95 for a while but for the most part traffic flows well enough. You can jump off at Rt 1 and take back roads over to the area to avoid some of it. There are several marinas at Georgetown so depending on your preferences you should be able to find something that fits the bill.Georgetown is 7 miles in from the bay and yes there can be a lot of boat traffic on summer weekends, but it's probably one of the nicest bodies of water on the bay. Compared to the Delaware up your way it'll seem like it's much more civilized. The trip out to where the river opens up takes apx :45 mins at 7 kts. It stays sea nettle free, there are numerous places to dinghy to and swim, or run the boat out, drop the hook and hang out. The sunsets are beautiful, clear nights will display more stars than you could ever imagine and the wildlife you'll encounter ranges from deer to bald eagles. You'll deal with spiders in most parts of the upper bay. Washing the boat on a regular basis keeps them at bay. We do get algae blooms but they're usually small enough that you can avoid them or they're washed away with the tide.As for available destinations, Havre De Grace is 3 hrs, Still Pond 2 hrs, Worton Creek 3 hrs, Rock Hall 4 hrs, Annapolis or Baltimore both 6 hrs. If you want to make the run to the Jersey Shore it's 4 hrs to the far end of the C&D and another 8 to Cape May. Moving the boat will take apx 8hrs to Chesapeake City on the C&D. It's another 4 hrs to Georgetown. All estimates based on running at 7kts. Adjust the times according to your own boat speed.The bottom line is there are numerous marinas in the upper bay area, both Eastern and Western shores. I don't think you'll go wrong no matter where you end up. Much will depend on if you'd rather spend an extra 20 plus mins in your car or spend the same time on your boat getting to a destination.Good luck with your decision.Mike

Dan Johnson · Sep 9, 2007

Manny, here's some thoughts...

I'll jump in here between Rich and Ross and put a plug in for the North East River area. I've been sailing here for almost ten years and find it great for day sailing. We have a large day sailing venue and its only 1 1/2 hours down to Turkey Point and the open Bay area. Water's deep enough for us to race boats with 5 to 6 foot drafts. It's also mostly fresh water, no salt, and we havent' seen algae for a number of years either. We have sailors from as far away as Allentown and Princeton NJ that make the trip each weekend.Ross is right, there's also a large sailing area off Harve de Grace and many boats day sail there as well. The channel down to the "big Bay" is a little more narrow but the distance is about the same as from North East. Gets a little tight with a barge/tug bearing down on you though.Rich is right about the convenience of Worton Creek. It is only about a fifteen minute motor to set sail into open water. Mind the shipping channel with large ocean-going commercial traffic and the ton of crab pots (did I mention there are no crab pots above Red 2 on the North East River?).

Ross · Sep 9, 2007

sailing is sailing whether the water is wide and

deep or narrow and thin. There is, I suppose something to be said for not being concerned about where the edges get thin. But no matter where you sail the land will get in the way. On the upper bay you will run aground if you sail more than five miles east or west. In the ocean you will run aground if you sail very far west on the east coast or east on the west coast. You can sail east for a long ways from western shore of the atlantic. Some of our members sail in lakes and can run out of water before noon if they don't change direction. Nancy and I don't usually go far enough to be concerned that we will run out of bay.Sorta like the two sailors that walked into the Rendezvous Inn in Perryville... We thought that one of them would have seen it before the collision.

Havre De Grace

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Warren Milberg

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