Hard Dodger. Hand built

[Hermit Scott]

I know alot of you guys are into racing and performance. I am more interested in making my boat as comfortable and entertaining as possible. I have looked at many cruising boats and read alot of people's web sites about their boats. It seems that cruisers have dodgers and racers have no dodger or a dodger they can remove. Does having a permanent dodger degrade performance?
I see that some people built their dodgers from plywood and fiberglass it, I haven't seen any up close pics of this method though. Some boats are built in molds where the gel coat is sprayed then glassed, this produces a smooth finish when it's pulled from the mold. Saildog built a bridgedeck using plywood and glass and then gel coat. I know alot of you have added parts to your boats using this method, like propane lockers.
Is it possible to get a smooth finish like it was buiilt in a mold for exposed frame pieces built using this method of plywood, then glass, then gelcoat? If so, what is the method that gets a flat level surface?

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

Just a thought on permanent dodger

If you have two identical boats that both have bimini tops on a hot summer day -- one with dodger and one without-- and they are moving under sail or power-- the boat without dodger will feel 20 degrees cooler in the cockpit. And yes you can make glass over ply look spectacular given enough elbow grease. But a prepatterned canvas dodger would cost less and be quickly removed when not needed.

 

[Ross]

There must be a couple of dozen ways to build what you want. I think that I would explore the idea of making a dodger in segments that could be dismantled and stowed. Fairing compound and a random orbit sander will let you achieve as smooth and fair a surface as you like. part urethane paint will give a finish as pretty as polished gelcoat.

 

[Rick D]

Resale, Resale, Resale

My recommendation would be to stick with a canvas dodger. There is a firm in NoCal who makes a PVC cover over a canvas-type dodger frame which looks very good. Catalina makes some version as a factory option as I recall. The issue is so many add on home made dodgers looks so very awful they ruin the resale of the boat. It makes you wonder if everything else is mickey-mouse too.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Gelcoat is bondo

The reason the manufacturers use gelcoat is to get that smooth finish in one step.
The gelcoat you use on boats is only slightly modified from the bondo you use on cars. But gelcoat can be sprayed in a thin ($$$$) layer after applying the hardening agent to the mold.
Glass over plywood can be brought to any desired sheen by using filler (micro balls, etc) in the epoxy and then sanding/painting.
OR
after glassing, you could paint on gelcoat, watch it run while you apply the red alcohol stuff that makes it set up and then sand
OR
you can use bondo and achieve the same thing at lower cost. Yes bondo is red but that is why you paint it. It also fairs and fills in corners better IMHO.

 

[sailingdog]

Hermit-

One itty bitty correction, my bridgedeck was painted, not gelcoated...

I've seen a really nice hard dodger and bimini done using 3mm okume plywood as the base material. The bimini was based on a cloth bimini frame, where the cloth bimini had basically died of old age. The frames were used to hold the 3mm plywood in place as two layers were laminated together to make the new bimini. The dodger was designed from scratch, but incorporated the frame of a previous cloth bimini for support and to add rigidity to it—the top was solid with an eyebrow all around, and the sides were canvas.

IIRC, the bimini was held in place using clamps over the 1" stainless tubing and was removable. I know the dodger was removable as well, but don't remember whether it was modular or not.

I'm actually planning on making a propane locker out of 3mm okume plywood later this winter.

 

[Charlie13958]

Just Google hard dodger, lot to see.

 

[kloudie1]

In the South part of the world, I have found that the heat of a hard dodger is the most difficult problem to solve.. The Beany-Toe that I am familiar with has opening windshield glass on its custom made one, which helps.. The other problem on smaller boats is ease of access to the deck from the cockpit and things like clearance for the winch handles. Play with a rough cardboard mock-up and make sure the restricted deck access and sail visibility is ok.. A fairly quick erecting cloth dodger is probably the best so it can be put up for the thunderstorm but opened afterwards for cooling as you motor through the calm that the storm left behind.. On the other hand, a hard one is a nifty place to put solar panels.. and it sure feels fine when the temperature is in the 50’s or lower. Good luck with the design, Scott..

 

[Bill Roosa]

Get a bigger bimini not a dodger

I have had dodgers. I currently have a big bimini with zip in window panels. There are three on each side of the bimini so you can customize the configuration to suite the conditions. The bimini proper extends from the pushpit rail to almost half way along the companionway slider and is as wide as the pushpit. The window panels extend forward beyond the companionway slider and so act as a dodger when you put on the 3 forward and 2 side panels next to them.

Some of the things that I like about it are:
The view froward and cooling breeze in the cockpit when I have all the window panels rolled up.
The lack of cooling breeze with all the panels down when sailing during the frost-bite series.
The suction effect when the "dodger" panels are in and she is at anchor. It vents the cabin much better than just the ram air coming in the forward hatch.
The "side dodger" effect when you have only the windward side panels rolled down.
Having a "dodger" readily available when needed going to windward.
I don't bang my head on the bimini coming up the companionway.

I'd not settle for a dodger ever again

 

[Ron20324]

Scott, I've been holding on to "The Artful Dodger" article from the Boatworks magazine's fall 2007 issue, pages 58-60. It looks like a decent idea, and I may yet do it. If you can not find the magazine article, I can US Mail you a copy.

 

[Maine Sail]

Gelcoat

Gelcoat can be done outside of a mold but will cure with orange peel and will require lots of wet sanding and multi-phase polishing steps. I'd use a product like Interlux Perfection before the hours and hours it will require to do gelcoat.

I also don't know that I'd want a permanent dodger where you are. Perhaps a hard top but not a permanent, built in place, dodger. Racers don't like them because the main trimmer can't see the sail well and the dodger gets in the way of cabin top sail trim controls...

 

[Hermit Scott]

Charlie-I have looked at many many dodger pics. Some of the hand built ones look nice, some look, not so grand.
Ross, I like the idea of being able to remove sections and stowe them.
Bill- I would be scared to death to use bondo on a boat.
Lance and Kluodie-I didn't realize a dodger made that much of a difference with the heat factor. The one day I motored my boat it wasn't that hot but it was windy and rainy.

Ron- I would appriciate it very much if you could send me a copy, unless someone knows of an easier way to find it online. My address is Scott Turner 2424 Broadway, San Antonio, Tx 78215. Maine Sail emailed me some things concerning propane aboard boats, and I intend to use that to have a safe propane locker for a grill off the rail. I am still a little nervous about piping propane into the cabin, I will be using the alcohol. As soon as my fire extenguisher arrives from ebay to use as my fuel tank.

I have a frame for a large bimini, it cover from the back stay to the companion way. I wish that was a hard topped more permanent structure like the one in the pic attached. I used to have a bimini top but high winds shredded it on my little trip to the boat yard. Then it rained on me pretty good. That's when I decided I was going to fix this problem permanently. What I really want is a hard bimini like the one in the pic. But I will probably get another cloth one in the mean time.
Saildog that sounds like a good idea, to have a frame maybe with a permanent top and the rest canvas.
A card board mock up is a must. Everything works out while being drafted, and nothing works that good when you actually build it.
I guess I definitely don't want to permanently box in the cockpit since I live in Texas.

 

[sailingdog]

The hard dodger top with cloth for the front and sides seems to be a pretty good compromise. I'll probably end up doing something like that at some point in the future.

 

[kloudie1]

Didn't know if you'd seen this guy's pages.. be sure to click on the picture on the bottom of the page to see his construction and layout stuff.. Nice site.
http://marshalldesign.blogspot.com/2007/04/hard-dodger-test.html

 

[Hermit Scott]

I did see that site Kloudie, and I wish I had the solid model file for my boat. Catalina may share it with me if I call their engineering dept. With that I can make the dodger in 3D cad first. That will help me avoid it looking like I made it. lol If I don't get that file first there is some trial and error things that you just can't get right the first time around unless you are some kind of artist like Ross.
Templates are fine when installing counter tops but for something like this there is no substitute for solid modeling.

 

[kloudie1]

Yes.. Lotsa hours to burn on a design-and-fab project like that one.. That is the kind of thing that almost requires that the boat be in the back yard for access and fitting the parts.. Many times when the rain is pouring down I have thought that a good hard dodger would be worth its weight!

 

[henkmeuzelaar]

Didn't know if you'd seen this guy's pages.. be sure to click on the picture on the bottom of the page to see his construction and layout stuff.. Nice site.
http://marshalldesign.blogspot.com/2007/04/hard-dodger-test.html

Thanks for the link Kloudie!

Looking through some of Marshall's hard dodger examples labeled "unknown designer" badly shivered me timbers when I first ran into our own hard dodger/bimini combination (Marshall's image #11; designed and built for our Hunter Legend 43 "S/V Rivendel II" by Laurent Champroux in Port Vila, Vanuatu) and then right after that (#12) into the special hard dodger built for NBA basketball star Bison Dele so -- with his great length -- he would be able to look over the roof of the standard dodger of his big catamaran "S/V Hakuna Matate".

As some of you may remember, Bison Dele -- described as a very nice as well as smart guy -- suddenly left the NBA at the height of his career to start living his dream of sailing the South Pacific. He hired a professional captain and invited his girlfriend plus his own brother, a known drug addict. After a few months of regular cruising and harbor stops, Hakuna Matate was not sighted for many months and when she finally surfaced somewhere (just check Google if you want to know the details) only the brother was on board, in a drug-induced stupor, and there were several bullet exit holes in the hull. The brother died in a hospital without ever speaking up, I believe, but the most commonly accepted reconstruction of events has the brother shooting everyone after some type of dispute. On Marshall's picture #12 you can see the bullet holes repaired, but not yet fully painted, near the left border of the image.

The reason that seeing Hakuna Matate right after Rivendel shook me up badly is that both vessels were actually tied up right next to each other in Port Vila, (Vanuatu) in 2005 or 2006. Hakuna Matate had been repaired and was sailing under her next owner. In fact, one of our volunteers had signed on for the passage home to Australia or New Zealand. However, Hakuna Matate kept being plagued by mishaps with her engines and rudders and I remember someone borrowing our dinghy to try and tie her to a nearby mooring when she was unable to leave her berth without turning in circles. Just recently, I noticed she was for sale again for only US $ 350,000 (a really low price for a 47' Leopard built in 2003).

What I never was able to understand is why subsequent owners did not rename her??? The Hakuna Matate is as haunted a vessel as I have ever seen on the Seven Seas (at least, after sending me own ghost ship "Flying Dutchman" to Davie's Locker.....:dance: ).

Have fun!

Flying Dutchman

PS: Rivendel II is currently for sale in Newport marina, near Brisbane, Australia and her specially built hard dodger is prominently visible on Australiawide's website. FD

 

[tcbro]

My friend has a hard dodger on his Bayfield 36. It looks like it belongs there. His is a hard top only, the sides are soft and removable. The hardtop is strong enough for 4 teenage girls to sit on and makes a great place to put the snacks during the raft-up party. The grab rails keep them from sliding off, the dogs can't reach them and it leaves the cabintop free for seating.

Then again, I've seen an old catamaran that had a pick-up truck cap on it as a dodger. Sometimes an idea works and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Ron20324]

Scott, the article went out in the mail the 30th. Sorry i didn't have time to gift wrap it.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Thank you Ron I really appriciate that.