H355 Symmetrical Spinnaker Strategys ?

David in Sandusky · Mar 7, 2011

Gybe downwind

The asymetric is blanketed behind the main below about 30 degrees off dead downwind. We have done very well dead downwind sailing wing and wing - that is what we are doing in our Avatar picture to the left.

But the reason the asymetric is so popular is that even with a symetric spinnaker, it is faster to gybe downwind - for something over 30 degrees off the wind to starboard to something over 30 degrees off the wind to port than it is to sail dead downwind. And of course, the asymetric is easier to set, and gybe than a symetric spin.

As a performance cruiser, I can also say that the asymetric increases the amount of time sailing on a typical cruise versus using the iron genny by about 20%.

Another note: in light air, we can fly our asymetric at 60 degrees off the true wind. From 70 degrees to 150 degrees off the true wind it will beat any foresail up to about 15-18 knots of wind where it is time to shift down.

Ed Schenck · Mar 7, 2011

David, looked at your asymm flying on the big picture: http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/in...&Itemid=278&pid=13296&page=sshow&mn=&catid=61 . It looks like your tack pendant is either on the pulpit or over it. That's not too much strain? Love that bow wake, rockin'!

Our boats don't have the big mains of the newer Hunters. I am guessing Paul would have to be a lot more than 30 off the wind.

P.S. thought of another question. Do you tack with the same sheet? Or is there a starboard sheet that we don't see?

David in Sandusky · Mar 7, 2011

Our Asymetric

I wrap the tack around the forward, upwind side of the pulpit, and take it to the toerail. Forward on the toerail lets the spin lift downwind, back tightens the luff for coming closer to the wind. At 90 degrees or more off the wind, the tack is pulling forward, pretty much in line with the run from the pulpit to the toerail. Since the tackline doesn't deflect much, there is not much stress on the pulpit. Running the tack line there moves the tack a foot ahead of the forestay, and a foot to windward. We've had no evidence of displacement of the pulpit over 8 years of use, including a very exciting round-up when a front came in unexpectedly at the north end of Lake Huron last summer. You have to go forward to adjust the luff, but in cruising mode, that is just fun stuff to do while on our way to the next port!

I think 30 to 40 degrees off the wind is what most others estimate as the point where the wind will freely enter the luff of the chute. Once the flow is started, the sail lifts up and forward, and sustaining the flow ought to work fine on his boat.

Yes, we gybe with one sheet. When cruising we seldom gybe (maybe once or twice a day). To gybe, we drop the sock, coil the sheet at the foot of the sock, carry the sock and the sheet around the front of the forestay, rig the sheet on the other side, then hoist the sock. A racing rig would have two sheets, both nearly twice the length of the boat. Then you release the sheet, let the sail flow out in front of the boat, then haul in on the other sheet. (Our single sheet only needs to be a little longer than one boatlength.)

Yeah, that bow wave says hull speed!

David in Sandusky · Mar 7, 2011

Just re-read your post

I meant 30 plus degrees off dead downwind, not off the wind (as in more close hauled than we will ever sail on Lady Lillie!)

David in Sandusky · Mar 8, 2011

IMHO

How much do you ease the spinnaker halyard to shape your sail below 55 degrees off the wind? I have been taught to hoist the halyard to the top and leave it there for symetric or asymetric spinnakers.

Is a bowsprit worth it? No personal experience, but I would try one if I were racing

Have you experimented with a longer ''leash'' to bring the sail higher off the bow closer to ddw? Yes. The sail definitely pulls better when we ease the tack line. I would definitely run the tack line back to allow tuning it for a racing rig.

Alan · Mar 12, 2011

A bow sprit??.. without question it's worth it. Not only does it allow for a larger spinnaker it also allows for deeper sailing angles. I designed and built mine and I'm very glad I did.

Bruce Leidal · Aug 13, 2011

Stretch said:
I got to fly the ''chute'' yesterday all the way home on our new boat and I was a little disappointed. It seems like a lot of work for what amounts to a loosy 140-150 % foresail thats only good for broad reaches, hardly worth dousing with a sock.
Is there a larger assym. one for racing allowed, or should I rig for symmetrical ? The assym also deflates behind the large main, a fellow Hunter owner suggested dropping to 1st reef but thats even more work for racing. Is that what you gentlemen do on the large mains, drop it for your chute ?
Thanks again for any advice.
ps, the admiral was excited to helm with a chute the 1st time.

Was reading the forums and saw your post. I have a Hunter 29.5. Have been racing it since 1994. The basic issue with the A-sail is that Hunters are built to go down wind and an a-sail requires hot angels (120 is optimal). The hull design does not support this. I recommend a symmetrical (a lot more work and rigging) or race the white sail fleet. You will do well against white sails if you throw the boom into the shrouds and head down wind, wing on wing.

I have proven over the years that I can be faster wing on wing than running an A-sail on hot angles on windward/leeward courses. By the way, I have a set of UK Tapedrive race sails. Night and day difference as compared to factory sails.

Welcome to the land of Hunter where the hull design is to go down wind and the rig is designed for hot angles. We live and learn.

Sail fast ( direct downwind).

Alan · Aug 14, 2011

Bruce
If you think that '... an a-sail requires hot angels (120 is optimal)' then it's no wonder you could sail downwind faster wing on wing. Each wind speed has its 'optimum' angle and 120 is just right for just one speed. As wind speed builds the optimal angle increases and vise verse. On a typical windward leeward course the symmetrical spinnaker will be the faster sail of choice but on a typical multi point course the a kite will be faster.
Wing on wing is left for the 'white sail' division which cannot compete against spinnakers of any kind. Even then, DDW is the slowest point of sail and still requires gybing for the best VMG. Only as the wind speed passes 30 knots does DDW become the optimal course.

Alan · Oct 26, 2011

Stretch, my sprit extends the tack of the sail an extra 5 1/2'. It allows me to sail 20 degrees deeper than without. The tack is adjustable from zero to 6 feet. The deeper you sail the more you need to raise the tack. This also allows the luff of the sail to roll out to windward and keep the sail drawing. However, the deeper you sail the closer you must keep an eye on the trim. If you loose the sail you will need to head up and re-load which will cost time and distance. The sprit does absolutely nothing for pointing because it is not used on a beat. I point higher than other 35.5's because I have a 6' fin keel and inboard genoa tracks. I can blow the doors off other Hunters.

H355 Symmetrical Spinnaker Strategys ?

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