H34 Yanmar starter/solenoid wiring

Claude L.-Auger · Dec 9, 2012

Hi Dan,
Here is what I also found on the net and forwarded to André by pm. Now I'm confused as the 2 sites mention #85 and #86 either Gnd or Pos. I don't think it makes any difference which one is used as they should both be wired with same gauge wire.
However I might have misled him Re #87 and 30. Your thought please
Claude

Dan Hill · Dec 9, 2012

I used a mountable relay and attached it to the inside of my engine compartment. Right next to the relay I installed a push button switch that triggers the relay independant of the control panel. No more starter issues and a handy start button below.

Dan

Dan Johnson · Dec 10, 2012

Claude...

The confusion may arise from not having an actual schematic showing the function of the numbered connector points. The diagram that Andre provided doesn't show this:

The 30/87 connection is the relay arm and contact point inside the relay itself. If I remember, 87 is the arm and 30 the point.

The 85/86 connection inside the relay is the actuation coil. 85 is conventionally the grounded terminal.

These are the same numbering conventions that I found on my German fog light relays from VOA/Audi that I've used on my sports cars too.

RS also has relays that can handle more current than the 30 amp one shown, but these appear to have different part numberings in the RS system. They also appear to be carrying relays with mounting bases that could do the same job.

Dan Johnson · Dec 10, 2012

Hey Dan!

I like the idea of the piggy-backed starter button at the relay! Will put that mod on my to-do list for next spring.

Thanks!

nveater · Dec 11, 2012

So let me ask a question what does the relay do ? Does it help the connection between the starter button and the starter or is it to by pass the starter button to a new starter button- Thanks for any clarification

Dan Hill · Dec 11, 2012

The relay creates a shorter path between the voltage source and the starter solinoid thereby reducing voltage loss, witch is the culprit in these yanny start issues. The starter button turns into a relay control switch and the relay handles the heavier load the starter requires.

Dan

Dan Hill · Dec 11, 2012

The "additional" button I added below is just for secondary use while below for fuel priming and the like, hope that clarifies things.

Dan

Dan Johnson · Dec 12, 2012

Nigel...

Give me a call and I'll walk you through the relay thing...

nveater · Dec 12, 2012

Thanks Dan

onecoolair · Dec 24, 2012

André R. said:
I had, like many of you, the starting problem many times, but never address that problem yet. Now that I am on this long voyage and the problem accures more often, I want to deal with it. The easiest solution that I am in a position to do is to install a new wire. On my solenoid I have the big bolt that hooks a wire to the battery, one to the alternator and one coming from the harness; I also have a small connector with a screw that hooks to a wire coming from the harness. Wich one of these 2 connectors or wires from the harness do I have to change ? Would a #12 or #10 would work? And finally, my guess is that I have to drive that new wire to the push button (I still have the Yanmar key and the large push button), should I unplug the wire that is connected to that end to replace it or just add the new wire to that connection ?
Thanks again for all your inputs

André
S/V Wind Spirit 3
VE2 WDS
French blog : http://windspirit.uniterre.com

Andre
It sounds like you said you are out cruising and just want to remove the worry of will she or won't she?
The simplest thing for now is run a new #10 white along side the existing harness. The white is the momentary contact wire from the momentary button to the starter white factory solenoid connection. While your at it, it would not hurt to also do the same with the red 12v hot wire. Just make sure not to miss the 30 amp fuse next to starter which is probably hidden under painted over electrical tape and hidden from view. Just piggy back on the wires that are already there. Leave all the connections the same.
Unplug and clean any of the factory harness connections as you trace out the harness.

This should see you through your trip. When you get back. You can install a battery disconnect to starter next to engine as well an extra push button over ride. This way starter is not always connect to starter 24/7. This helps you get into the habit of doing a engine inspection before starting motor and when done at the end of day doing another inspection while shutting off battery to starter.
BTW....My yanmar key starter switch proved to be defective also. I replaced it with a 25 dollar solid brass marine/automotive style switch from the local O'reallys auto parts. This new key switch as an extra momentary position for starting....No more contorting fingers trying to reach the also cheaply made defective yanmar button behind the plastic cover!
This is what I did and it took care of problem.
"HINT"Here is a procedure I do most times when first starting up is. I will turn key on in the cockpit.
Then I will open the engine cover look things over and when ready to start I flip on the 30 amp breaker from the "c" post of engine selector switch to starter. Then I turn the engine selector switch to #2 which connects engine starter to the "C" post on the on/1/both/2/off selector switch at main house battery banks. Number #1 on the Engine Selector switch is for the reserve starter battery. When I engage the switch to the on position the beeper will sound out in cockpit "good sign" I can then push the starter button next to engine and observe engine as it starts and runs. If something does not look right all I have to do is push on the kill switch cable next to the throttle cable. Always never get in a panic and Be care full of spinning fan belt! I have considered piggy backing on the cockpit kill cable connection with a second kill cable next to engine just have not gotten around to it yet.

onecoolair · Jan 1, 2013

André R. said:
Hello everyone,
first I would like to thank you all for all your hints and suggestions. I have installed the relay, didn't change the wires to the key or to the push button. It starts better, but still, once a while I still have a drop, i drop the push button, push it again and then it start, I guess something is wrong with the solenoid itself, I'll might change the whole thing when I'll be back in the states.

I wish you all a happy New Year and fair weather for the new 2013.

Bon vent !

André

Andre.... I would still add the continuous extra #10 white momentary wire from the instrument starter switch to the starter seloniod ....By not getting the a proper amount of juice to the starter seloniod it will cause the seloniod to get to hot and fail and if not that the windings in starter motor to burn up. That's what it did in my case. The seloniod on starter checked out okay? And was told to keep it as a spare. For the new same model starter motor.

artboas · Jan 1, 2013

The solution

Dan Johnson said:
Claude: No problem in cleaning up that drawing--it wasn't mine but yours is much easier to understand now.

Andre: The relay numbering is pretty standard. I think this is what the terminals should be wired as (should be a pictograph screened on the relay housing - 85/86 are the relay coil):

30 = Fused with 30 amp fuse (equal to the RS relay's rating) to a heavy positive power lead - 10 AWG - (taken from the battery lead [big post] on the starter)

87 = Terminal on starter relay where starter button wire was connected

85 = Wire from the starter button

86 = Black wire to ground

The picture shows the fuse wired between the relay and the starter solenoid. I feel it shoud be on the incoming current lead side into the RS relay instead--how I've wired it on my boat. The RS relay wiring pictured is mostly white, but the black one is definately to ground.

Hope this helps

I was one of the very early boats (my 40.5), that had the intermittent starter problem.
Changing wire guages, and all that, is a total waste of time.
The correct, and only, solution, is to install the relay.
Any high current relay will work. The drawing using the solenoid is 100% correct, and will work flawlessly.
It was interesting that Yanmar said "they never heard if the problem", which was total BS. It wasn't just Hunter owners. Beneteau guys had the same issue.
I found a 100% predictable way to know exactly when the engine would fail to start. Very scientific test, with exact parameters:
Go out sailing
On way back in, enter restricted water way, such as channel
Wait for wind to gust up to 25 knots.
Now, stand by, and wait for the exact moment for a freighter to bear down on you.
Turn key.
Curse loudly as engine doesn't start.
Now, with panic setting in, round up to wind, and with headsail flogging, try & furl in.
Curse more.
Try not to notice large freighter, and try key again.
Now bear downwind, and get out of channel.
One last time, try key.
Vroom!
Apologize to wife for previous tone of voice when she mistook furling line for topping lift.

onecoolair · Jan 1, 2013

artboas said:
I was one of the very early boats (my 40.5), that had the intermittent starter problem.
Changing wire guages, and all that, is a total waste of time.
The correct, and only, solution, is to install the relay.
Any high current relay will work. The drawing using the solenoid is 100% correct, and will work flawlessly.
It was interesting that Yanmar said "they never heard if the problem", which was total BS. It wasn't just Hunter owners. Beneteau guys had the same issue.
I found a 100% predictable way to know exactly when the engine would fail to start. Very scientific test, with exact parameters:
Go out sailing
On way back in, enter restricted water way, such as channel
Wait for wind to gust up to 25 knots.
Now, stand by, and wait for the exact moment for a freighter to bear down on you.
Turn key.
Curse loudly as engine doesn't start.
Now, with panic setting in, round up to wind, and with headsail flogging, try & furl in.
Curse more.
Try not to notice large freighter, and try key again.
Now bear downwind, and get out of channel.
One last time, try key.
Vroom!
Apologize to wife for previous tone of voice when she mistook furling line for topping lift.

:wow: Sooooo.....True!!!

H34 Yanmar starter/solenoid wiring

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