H27 Inboard shot help with options?

[Benny17441]

I do not know what kind of sailing you plan on doing but if you are content with being a casual sailor in mostly fair weather I would advise getting a used 8HP outboard and for peace of mind an unlimited tow boat insurance policy. This should not set you back more than $1,000 and you can get to enjoy the boat. If on the other hand you intend to do Coastal Cruising outside protected waters I would strongly advise repowering the boat with an inboard diesel. n Do you know the reason for the loss of compression? It could be from poorly seating valves, bad head gasket or worn piston rings. There are a few tests that your mechanic could conduct to narrow down the primary cause. Removing the head, stripping it down and taking it to a machine shop to cut the valve seats and install new guides and then reassembling with new valves and a new head gasket could do wonders for compression at a low relative cost. I have gotten engines with worn piston rings to provide a couple of years of additional service by using a thick oil with additives. It reduces oil burning and increases compression. It is usually not cost effective to rebuild the injector pump so a replacement would be recommended. I had a stuck pump once as a result of water getting into the fuel and was able to remove it and soak it in a penetrating oil solution and manually pushing the plunger until it released and then it proceeded to work fine. Fixing it would depend on what type of problem it may have but I would not start buying new parts for it. As far as the injectors I would not rebuild nor replace until I felt the engine had gained adequate compression. That goes for the injector pump too. If you are mechanically inclined I'm sure you could get that engine running rather inexpensively but if you have to rely on mechanics it could get real expensive and the best option might be an outboard engine.

 

[SailormanDan]

For reference, the Yanmar 1GM in my 1981 H27 only makes 7.5 Hp, which is good enough for most days even with a high wind, but like Benny mentions above you may want more oomph if you are out farther and need to get home.

 

[griffinburd]

Thanks gentleman (and if there were any ladies in the discussion). I think that for now I'm going to go the outboard route, then fiddle with or replace the outboard when I have the finances, though I could use one more piece of advice.

Do I go for an older early 90's Nissan 15 HP 2 - stroke, or a new/like new 9.8 HP Tohatsu four-stroke.
Both have the 25" shaft.
I like the 2 stroke because it's a bit more light weight, but I worry about a 24 year old engine, even if it seems to be in good shape now. On the flipside I don't know if 9.8 is enough to push this girl if I have a 3 knot current against me and it is about $1,000 more.

 

[braol]

Nothing wrong with an outboard and the reliability of a new 4-stroke is hard to beat. I have a '78 H27 with an SB8 Yanmar (one cyl). I pulled my hair out last year doing a top-end disassembly and inspection. Pulled about two handfuls of rust out of the water passages and had to get a thermostat plate machined at a local shop due to lack of available parts. I also sent my injectors to a diesel injector shop for cleaning and testing only to find out that my lift pump was bad. I replaced it with a cheap diesel electric pump and never looked back. Before I solved my problem I mounted a used 4-stroke on the back for primary power, which is now my back-up incase of emergency.
I still don't trust the diesel just yet, although it runs fine. One problem is that it doesn't cold start very well so I use a shot of starting fluid spray up the intake to get her going and that seems to work. In the end having both the diesel working and an outboard just-in-case gives me peace of mind.
The problem is that we are all in a lose-lose situation with the old diesels. Either a new engine or the endless headaches and worry over break-down and unavailable parts with the old motor. Cost wise, fixing the old lump is probably a bit more cost effective...but the constant worry over reliability is always at the back of my mind. The worry is compounded by the fact that the engine only gets fired up when coming into/out of harbor and when the weather gets bad. So the times you most need the engine is when reliability is most critical. The outboard works fine when it’s calm, but in wavy conditions the prop is always popping out of the water which can be unsettling.

A used engine is just a ‘new’ old engine with the same set of problems: age/reliability, and cost/availability of parts. I’d probably go with repair first and then a new engine before buying used. At some point though repair costs cross over that invisible line where a new engine just makes sense….but that is often after $1-2,000 has already been spent on parts and repair. I still find it exasperating that the single largest headache on my sailboat is the engine. Unfortunately in these modern times having to motor into/out of harbor is a fact of life as is our lifestyle which is tied to a work schedule.
*NOTE: If you do choose to go all out and throw away the diesel take pictures of your boat from the side in the water. After removing the diesel and installing the outboard, compare how she lies in the water and add ballast as necessary to set your boat back to regular trim. Sometimes removing the diesel results is the boat being slightly high aft. One benefit of going inboard-less is that you free up a TON of room in back for supplies and such. Plus you can remove your prop and gain some speed under sail!

 

[Jammin jr]

My 25 has a yanmar 2GMF that was installed by the previous owner. Of course the 25 never came with an inboard, but it is a very clean installation none the less. You may find a yanmar used that will fit your budget with the basic accessories included. If you are in no big rush, you may run into a deal. Either way, best of luck with your dilemma.

 

[griffinburd]

I'm sorry I wasn't more attentitve to the thread, thank you both for the long responses. I ended up going with a brand new Yamaha 9.9 High Thrust model and so far I'm very happy with it. While having the inboard spoiled me to no end, it's nice having something that I can trust 100%. I didn't want to have the weight of a 15hp four stroke on the back of the Hunter, but I knew I needed the power of a 15 HP to be happy. I did some research and most 9.9's have a 2.08:1 gear ratio, but the Yamaha was over 2.9:1. Running about half throttle is enough to push me against a 2.5 knt current, the only time I've had to run it all out was against sustained 25knt wind and an outgoing tide. I wasn't going anywhere fast, but I was moving and still had control. I balanced out my crew to make sure the prop stayed in the water without being swamped, the 25 inch shaft is a lifesaver.
I want to pull the inboard out and free up some space for storage, but that'll be another project for another day. Thank you braol for the suggestion to take before and after pictures to get the ballast correct, I hadn't thought of that but did worry that the removal would throw off the weight. I figured it just meant I'd need to keep an extra 300 lbs of beer laying around back there!

I'll be happy to go into more detail about my experience with the outboard if anyone else is following that route.

 

[braol]

I figured it just meant I'd need to keep an extra 300 lbs of beer laying around back there!

Huzza for Beer!!! Hey, how long is the shaft of the new engine? I'm running an old Yamaha 6hp 4-stroke, and although it's a long-shaft model, it has a tendency to lift out of the water often enough to be a bother. I'm fortunate enough to still have the original Yanmar SB8 running but one day it's time will come and I too will be faced with extra stowage space for beer. And is your engine one of the ones with a small alternator so that you can charge your batteries?
About that ballast, if you need to level anything at all go with lead as it is super heavy for its size...allowing you to place any extra needed ballast right on centerline without taking up much valuable (new) space. With the outboard you might not even need any ballast, I just mentioned it as something to think about. The moment-arm of a lighter engine hanging out back probably makes up for the absence of a heavier engine further forward. All the extra beer might just be enough...although I'd hate to read the accident report where it mentions that: "All was well and the vessel wouldn't have sunk if it wasn't for the crew who drank so much beer that they upset the trim of the boat." Ha, ha!

 

[griffinburd]

Braol: I have the 25 inch shaft, where my transom mount is located I can have the engine skimming the water on a balanced boat and have to actually raise it up a notch if I have more than 3 or 4 people in the cockpit area. I'll take some pictures this afternoon and throw them up. Granted no-one might be interested now, but I can't tell you how many threads have exactly what I needed and were several years old. Maybe someone will come across this in the future and it'll be of help.

It seems like most of the high thrust models from all the manufacturers have an electric start standard, and therefore an alternator. I originally just wanted pull-start, no alternator to save money and weight, but no choice. Now I'm spoiled and doubt I'll go back to an exclusively pull-start. This one has a pull-start so worst case I kill my batteries completely and have to pull start to get her to charge and at least back to the dock where I can plug in.

I'm jealous that your 6hp pushes it. I hate how heavy these 4-strokes are, I was looking everywhere for a reliable 2-stroke 15hp with an extra long shaft but just wasn't having any luck. I'll regularly have a 2.5 - 3.0 knot current that I'm fighting so I didn't want to chance it going any lower than what is on there now. There was a Nissan in MO for a good price, but I couldn't figure out how to get it to me on the east coast for a reasonable amount of money. My 9.9 4-stroke weighs more than a 15hp 2-stroke, oh well gotta worry about all those emissions sailboats put out I guess :/

 

[braol]

Well, I wouldn't say that my little engine pushes the boat with any real authority. Since it primarily still operates as an emergency back-up I don't worry about trying to push against any real weather/currents. It does however work great in the confines of the harbor...not much of a momentum stopper though!
I was reading somewhere that an ideal engine is 1.5-2 HP per foot of boat length (for long-distance open water cruising). That would mean a engine in the 40-54 HP range...which is real overkill in a 27'...but the point was to be able to motor in an emergency in extreme conditions. Again, this is just a point for interesting conversation. I still am exasperated that most of my time/worry spent on my SAILboat is always over a silly engine. Oh the irony.