H27 Inboard shot help with options?

[griffinburd]

Good day everyone. I'm usually a reader, but decided to come out of the shadows to ask for help.

I have a 1979 Hunter 27. It has a Universal 5411 that has kicked the bucket I'm afraid. After having starting and power issues I changed the fuel filters, bled the fuel lines and still couldn't get her to work. After having a mechanic out I've been told that the injector pump needs to be rebuilt, injectors need to be replaced, and that there is really no point in doing that work when I only have 150 psi compression on each cylinder.

I'm on a limited budget and have little know-how, much less the tools and space to do much work myself. I see my options as having this engine pulled and rebuilt...makes me nervous considering the expense, the fact that it is raw (salt) water cooled and already leaks water from somewhere, and I have no idea the condition of the transmission. Replace it with another 5411, I saw on diesel trader a engine/tran combo for $2800, not cheap but a consideration. Replace it with another inboard, which is probably the most expensive option and likely out of my price range, or slap an outboard on there, there is already a motor mount installed.

The last option is to just sell it as is. I was looking at selling it before I started having engine trouble.

My budget on this was only about $2000, it looks now like that number is long by the wayside considering I have about $600 in mechanic hours already into it. Any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[kito]

I have a 79 H30 and has a single cylinder Yanmar YSM12 10 hp diesel. I thought the 79 H27 had the YSM8 8 hp. There was a rebuilt ysm12 on Ebay for $2500. Still may be there.
It's still there $2500 or best offer. Comes with tranny and instrument panel. He's in Florida but worth the drive. He says it's 18 hp....I questioned him earlier that it was only a 10. He said the nameplate says 18hp...........?

 

[griffinburd]

Great to know, I'll take a look at that. My engine was a bit of a frakenstein I'm afraid. To turn it off you had to use the decompression lever which I didn't question at first, because that's what the previous owner did. Now I realize that's a big NO and may have led to the problems I have now.

Do you know if you can swap these out while in water or does the boat need to be pulled?

 

[griffinburd]

Good to know JohnVTX, all the manuals I saw usually said not to do it that way, but the mechanics I had down there all agreed they didn't see another way to stop it.

Does anyone think I should pay to have the injectors replaced and the fuel injector pump rebuilt and still try to crank and run with 150 psi, or is everyone pretty much in agreement that with compression that low it's a moot point?

 

[JohnVTX]

Good to know JohnVTX, all the manuals I saw usually said not to do it that way, but the mechanics I had down there all agreed they didn't see another way to stop it.

Does anyone think I should pay to have the injectors replaced and the fuel injector pump rebuilt and still try to crank and run with 150 psi, or is everyone pretty much in agreement that with compression that low it's a moot point?

You should leave key on when pulling the fuel stop. Then turn key off. I don't know what the compression should be. Can't help you there.

 

[kito]

Great to know, I'll take a look at that. My engine was a bit of a frakenstein I'm afraid. To turn it off you had to use the decompression lever which I didn't question at first, because that's what the previous owner did. Now I realize that's a big NO and may have led to the problems I have now.

Do you know if you can swap these out while in water or does the boat need to be pulled?

I turn my ysm12 off by the using the decompression lever. It doesn't have a fuel cut off as far as I know. I have never had this boat in the water yet....still restoring it I couldn't tell you about swaping them out in the water. I reck'n if you don't have to pull the shaft you could. I doubt the flange would mate up or the shaft is the correct length. Still doable in the water though.

 

[markwbird]

I would consider rebuilding it myself. You can find a manual with rebuild instructions and it will probably cost you around $1000.00 in parts and a few special tools. If you are able to read up on it and follow and understand the manual it might be doable.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Consider that switching engines WILL INVOLVE wiring, the exhaust system and a ton of other little things you haven't considered. ITWMB, I'd do a LOT of research and homework on that engine specifically.

www.marinedieseldirect.com has the parts and manuals, but you most likely could find them online, since many Catalinas had them on their boats and the Catalina one Design associations, like the C30 and C27 have good websites with tons of information. So did Ericsons, there's and Ericson website that's very good, too.

This is one time, actually another of many, many times, when Google can be your friend. I know some folks don't like hearing that line, but it's true. "Universal 5411 rebuild" would be a good start, huh?

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

Also, please remember, none of us was born boat mechanic, engine expert, electrician, or plumber. We all had to learn, 'cuz it's a safety issue.

 

[griffinburd]

Thanks everyone for the responses.
Many sites that I've seen regarding the 5411 rebuilds say it's simply not worth it. The internal corrosion can cause components breaking when being disassembled, arts are getting harder to find. I am seeing gray oil so I know that it's had saltwater inside of the block. Another issue with rebuilding is I live in an apartment, short of trying to build a stand and working on it inside the boat (yes I know possible, but with my luck I'll end up with a 200 lb piece of iron on my foot) I don't know that I'd feel comfortable doing that.

Now if I had a garage and some room, I would LOVE to work on it. I think it would be fun and a great learning experience. Just right now I don't have that option...maybe if I didn't own a boat I could live in a house...nah...

All that said, what I guess I really need help on is:
Do I pay someone to pull and swap a different one in (it sounds like there is A LOT more to it)
Do I replace the parts and hope that the 150 psi is enough to crank it.
Do I get an outboard (if yes I assume a 15 hp, 20" shaft will do)
Do I sell it as is, take a huge hit, and learn my lesson. In the late summer I considered selling for $6500 when everything was working fine, though without the engine I'd probably take $4000...but even that may be asking a lot.

I don't mean to be difficult shooting down rebuild suggestions. As I said I just don't have anywhere to work on it. I am very appreciative of the advice so far.

 

[Nelsonhow]

I thought that the standard engine for the H-27 was a Renault 8 HP which is no longer manufactured and the Yanmar 1GM. So did a PO replace the motor?
The Yanmars are bulletproof engines and easy to work on. If you replace the old motor with a new one of a different brand or size it will entail a lot of work: engine bed, cooling, exhaust, electrical shaft, shaft seal and prop and you know that this will really cost! Even if you elect a rebuilt motor and do all the work yourself you're probably looking at $4,000+. But maybe you're "IN LOVE" and if so it may be work it out since when you in that state money is no object...... I was in the same place as you with my 1978 H-27 but elected to rehabilitate my Yanmar 1 GM and got another 5 years out of her before I sold the boat. Even then in great condition I only got $7,500 for her. You may do better to sell out and add another $5,000 or so and get a different boat. There's no easy out here....... go good luck.

 

[griffinburd]

Thanks Nelson,
As much as I love her, it's not an unconditional love. I was already considering selling before I had the engine problems, now it's more of a "get a few more months out of her while she's on the market to sell." It's not too easy to sell a boat that can't leave the marina.

As for the engine. It's been through 3 or 4 previous owners before I picked her up last year. I spent a while looking through pictures of other engines before finding that she was a 5411. I'm really thinking the most economical thing would be to put a used 15 HP two stroke on her so that I can still use it and let the inboard be a project for the next owner. I just don't know why someone would replace any engine with a raw water cooled, low power like the 5411.

It looks like most of the 25" shaft outboard are 9.9 or less HP, which makes me nervous. The 15 or 20 HP engines though are all 20", any ideas which route is better?

 

[Stu Jackson]

It looks like most of the 25" shaft outboard are 9.9 or less HP, which makes me nervous. The 15 or 20 HP engines though are all 20", any ideas which route is better?

Easy. Long shaft. 9.9 is fine for your boat unless you're sailing in the Bay of Fundy. Even with the current in your neck of the woods, 9.9 with the proper prop should be just fine. I ran our C25 for 134 years with a 7.5 HP Merc 2 stroke here on SF Bay, through the Golden gate and in the ocean, too.

The longer the shaft the more time the prop is in the water.

That's what you need. Probably better on the motor mount, too, which may be your limiting factor.

 

[kito]

Imo, there is nothing worse than someone sticking an outboard on nice Hunter Cherubini. I think you would get more if you just sold it with a blown engine than sticking an outboard on it. You can probably get $2500 as is....less than that with an outboard modification and cost of the outboard. Find a rebuilt diesel and do it right. I still say that boat came with a Yanmar ysm8.....1979 was the only year for that engine.

 

[griffinburd]

Well, she's got the universal 5411 in there now, I don't doubt that she had something else originally, but I just know what I'm looking at. I wish it had a yanmar, it would probably be a bit more reliable, but I don't.

It actually already has an outboard on it, also previous owner, though I have never been able to get it to crank and don't even have the title to it so I never gave it much thought. It's a 1980's/90's 15 HP Nissan. I was looking at taking it off once I found a dinghy to help (and a running inboard).

I've posted it with the engine being as-is so we will see if I get any bites.

I'd like to find a rebuilt diesel, I love the inboard, I hate ruining the curves with an outboard, but it seems like I either go back to the 5411 (only one I could find is $2800 plus shipping, plus core, and then installation) or changing to a different powerplant which, according to many in this thread alone, is a whole other beast.

 

[griffinburd]

Also, here's the inboard just to confirm it's a 5411

 

[kito]

Here is an interesting post about a 5411 rebuild. Sounds like it's a Kubota tractor engine with a few marine parts that you may salvage from your old engine. http://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...411-diesel-overhaul-parts-availabilty.168592/

 

[David in Sandusky]

Nothing wrong with a 9.9 outboard! The original ysm8 Yanmar on our '77 h27 would drive her 5 knots with mediocre compression. Our current 1GM10 will drive her at 6 knots in flat water. An outboard is probably the most popular power for the Cherubini 25.

You could pull the 5411, and sell it to a rebuilder. You just disconnect it, and use the boom and a fall to lift it out and over a dolly on the pier. Not simple or easy, but doable. Then you would have a very workable, and salable h27!

 

[griffinburd]

Kito,
That's a great link and gives me something to think about, I had found many links regarding the 5411 but that was a new one for me.

The previous owner also converted it to a tiller controlled instead of a wheel, lot's of little surprises I've been finding when researching the boat.

It looks like what I'll do is, leave it for sale at a price I'd be happy with, engineless. If someone buys it great, if they don't, it's not the end of the world. Put on a 25" 9.9 HP new Tohatsu or used Honda/Yamaha so that I can at least get her out of the marina come warm weather if it does not sell. Then remove the inboard whenever I can find a place to store it/fix it/sell it.

If someone makes me a decent offer for the outboard with the boat itself I can sell as a package, otherwise it never hurts to have a little 9.9 laying around.

 

[kito]

I didn't know it already had an outboard mount. In that case fixing the outboard would make sense. Probably a easy fix. I am not positive but I believe the H27 did have a tiller option. Does it look like the pedestal was removed and you are just using the emergency tiller?.

 

[griffinburd]

The tiller connection looks professionally installed, I drilled out and filled holes where the pillar used to be in order to prevent moisture from working in there, there are no cables or workings underneath anymore or any sign of a wheel control aside from the previous holes.