H26 - Cracked Hull ?!?!

[jao1972]

Is anyone aware of this problem or has anyone had this problem??? Sorry for the long post, but please read below and look at photos. We are battling the insurer to save this boat! (I recently posted this on the Ask a Hunter Owner forum and have reposted it here under some great advice from a responder!)

My father-in-law owns a 1994 Hunter 26--swing keel/centerboard with water ballast tanks. This fall, we discovered cracks in the hull originating from the front of the keel/centerboard pocket and progressing toward the bow. (Please see the attached photos.) The starboard crack is approximately 12 inches in length, about 1/4 inch wide at its worst, and old enough to have marine growth in it. The boat has not been hauled in at least a year. The port crack is smaller and appears to be relatively new. These cracks originate from the 90 degree reentrant corners of the keel/centerboard pocket. They progress vertically, but not all the way to the top of the pocket, and have caused some delamination within the pocket.

Our and the boatyard's best guess to the cause of the crack is impact. We have struck ground on multiple occasions while motoring. Exiting the creek where the boat is docked requires crossing a shallow sand bar (point of this boat). Unfortunately, powerboats take advantage of the unpatrolled waters to plane across the bar at his speed. On more than one occasion, we have been caught in boat wake and slammed down on the packed sand bottom.

We filed an insurance claim, but Allstate denied the claim on the basis of "wear and tear" and/or "latent or physical defect," based on its surveyor stating the damage is a result of cyclic loading of the centerboard while under sail. The surveyor noted the marine growth as an indicator of progressive damage.

We obtained our own surveyor, who determined that in no way this could be wear or a defect. He pointed out that Allstate's surveyor's determination is pretty much a description of the intended use of boat and alludes that the boat only has a useable lifespan of 10-15 years. We also had a representative from Norton's (Hunter dealer in Deltaville, VA) look at the boat. He agreed with our surveyor.

Allstate has agreed to review the claim again. My question is has anyone seen or heard of this type of cracking before? We all know Hunter is not infallible, but swing keel/centerboard design is not a novel concept.

Any input will be greatly appreciated!!!

 

[njmedic3306]

How heavy is a swing keel on a H26?

I just bought my H23 and I was told when looking at swing keels to look for damage that occured from a snapping winch cable. The sudden downward force of the keel can easily crack the fiberglass. This was an issue when looking at Catalinas but again I am not familar with the specifics of an H26.

 

[jao1972]

That's a possibility, and I can see that happening with a Catalina. My father-in-law actually had a Catalina 22 before buying this boat. I don't know how much the keel weighs on the H26, but it is much less than the Catalina because the water tanks provide the ballast instead of a weighted keel.

Instead of a winch cable attached to the foot of the keel, a rope attaches to the top offset from the center pin. One problem I have heard of on the H26 is that keel is slow to go down or gets hung up. I know with our boat, you leave the uphaul line loose on the deck after lowering the keel until is seats itself all the way down.

Thanks for your response. I do appreciate it!

 

[owner23.5]

How that really sucks. Sorry to hear/see that bad news and hope the ins co. takes care of a customer and keeps that customer furthermore. Ive been keeping an eye on mine for two seasons now every spring for and signs of damage and been lucky..Has your surveyor explained what process it would take to fix this ? How expensive a project is this ? again good luck

 

[jao1972]

Yeah, it blows like the wind... Part of the problem is what exactly is it going to take to fix this. The boatyard wants to go in from the top. Since the crack is forward of the compression post but still inside the tank, that means cutting out part of the cabin floor. The original estimate was over $5,000. Their idea was to patch the cracking from the inside and on the outside. These boats are not racers, so building up fiberglass is not a problem. In the raised position, the centerboard closeness to the front wall of the pocket creates a problem for patching the delamination shown in the last photo. Not much room to get a lot of fiberglass in there.

Thanks for your response and thoughts!

 

[Rick D]

A Suggestion

Tell Allstate you want a neutral arbitration of the loss. What that entails is that you and they pick a neutral arbitrator. Then you each have a representative to arbitration. They get together, examine the evidence, hear testimony if you request it and two of the three constitute a decision. I have not looked at contracts in a long time, but once they all had that provision. It is a good way to get a prompt resolution at minimal cost and people don't have to be attorneys. Many years ago I did this with... disputed hull damage. Much the same issue and much the same contention by the insurance company's adjuster.

 

[jao1972]

Rick, thanks for the suggestion on the neutral arbitration. Hopefully when Allstate looks at this again now that we have a contradictory opinion from a reputable surveyor, they will change their decision or agree to work with us. If they deny the claim again, we will have to take the next step. I will keep this in mind and take a look at the policy in the meantime.

Not to get too personal in your affairs but when you had to do the arbitration, was it a H26?

Once again, I truly do appreciate all the great responses I have had. This is a learning process.

 

[isaksp00]

Re: A Suggestion

Is it possible the 26, being a water ballasted boat, has more of a centerboard than a keel? That is, not weighted but a glassed-over foam core, like a rudder? It may actually float, or have little displacement. I guess it doesn't really matter - the cracks don't now care what caused them, except you'd not have to worry much about that issue once repaired.

Wonder if the yard can cut out the cracks and delaminate and build it up from outside the boat, working outwards?

 

[Rick D]

Oh, no. It was a 26' T-Bird and it was in 1984, just after the ice age. I owned her for 19 years, beginning in about 1969 (ice age).

 

[jao1972]

The centerboard is fiberglass. After the boat yard pulled it off the boat to give access to the trunk/slot it rests in while in the raised position, I moved it over on some blocks myself. Not light by any means, but not a lead keel either.

I had actually considered the idea of cutting the whole section out and rebuilding it with glass--the area with the cracks and delamination. Haven't run that by the repair guys yet. This would be a larger scale repair, but I know Laser's have a bad habit of ripping the mast step/pocket out of the deck when turtled. Laser's make a repair part that is put on by cutting about a 2'x2' section out of the deck and glassing it in. If you can do it for that, makes sense you could do that here.

***I added a picture showing the centerboard on the ground. In the second new picture you can get a feel of the full length of it and how it sits when raised. It protrudes from the bottom of the boat about 6 inches.

 

[jao1972]

Rick, sorry you had to deal with that, but glad it wasn't an H26. What I'm looking for here is comments that this has never been seen before!

 

[MABell]

I couldn’t help but notice...

The picture showing the boat bow sitting on the block of wood.
Was there a period of time the boat was on the hard with the block located where the hull is cracked?
Would seem to be a lot of weight in one place – as opposed to a couple of boat stands at the bow.

 

[jao1972]

I'm not real happy with those blocks either, but there are 2 sets of jackstands on each side of the boat (4 total). I think more have been added, but can't remember how many. A hurricane feinted the area about week after it went on the hard, and the boatyard put extra supports underneath it (we knew it was going to be there a while at that point).

Good thoughts on the blocks, and I been told that boatyards that improperly hoist a boat can damage it. However, we discovered the crack because water was seeping out of it from the ballast tank when it was pulled out of the water. (The rear plunger drain was opened.) Also, the crack is old enough that barnacles are growing in it.

***I added a picture to the original post showing the jack stands. This is pre-hurricane.

 

[MABell]

OK, that looks better

I can't help to think that was a catostrophic event.
The centerboards just are not that strong to lever or pry that hard to damage the hull.
Certain the centerboard would just break.

 

[soling42]

Being a trailer boat these hulls are eggshell thin compared to a heavier keel boat and the CB is plenty tough enough to crack the well/hull if done right. As I said on the other post, I've owned a 260 for over 5yrs, trailered it, cruised with it pretty extensively and been all over the boat and every thread written in the last 10yrs about them. This IS NOT a normal occurrence, I've NEVER heard of this type of "wear and tear" from fatigue and it could only happen due to some type of accident or an unheard of and very unlikely mfg layup deficiency.

My guess is probably incorrect bracing on the hard(possibly fell during a storm) or from damage while stored on a incorrectly designed trailer or while being trailered if a bunk/roller failed. Also likely is possible damage from the CB being forced forward while it was in the full down position during a launch with the line accidentally uncleated or while motoring in reverse.

Either way it's a tough call and an even tougher fix....but it can be fixed. Upside down with a huge hole full of glass and resin in my face:cussing: I'd be fussin' but I'd definitely do it. On the bright side be glad the crack was contained within the ballast tank. That's rarely an option on a boat. Maybe just consider it an auto fill feature....nah.

Ahhh boating, ain't it bliss.

Good luck, Mike

 

[jao1972]

Below is what the insurer's surveyor said. He's describing the intended use of that boat. "Cause of Loss:"

"The cause is the centerboard working from side to side while extended. As the boat rolls in a sea the centerboard will resist the roll by forcing itself against one side of the trunk at the top where the centerboard is pinned and at the opposite side of the trunk at the bottom where it exits each time the boat rolls. This will be a cyclic motion that hammers each side of the trunk at the bottom with each roll (see results of this action in lower picture page 5). The other force that tries to pry the trunk apart occurs when the boat is saiiing on a reach, The forces generated during this event are continuous
over the same area mentioned above (depending on which tack the boat is on) and on a hard reach those forces are considerable. The centerboard has a tremendous mechanical advantage with its three foot extension below the hull against the two sides of the trunk and over time has split the bottom of the trunk and the hull forward on this boat. The picture at the top of page 5 of this report clearly shows the split is starting to occur on the port side of the trunk opposite the existing split which confirms the damage has been caused by the side to side forces imposed by the centerboard noted above.

...Additionally if this were a onetime event another split would not be starting on the opposite side of the trunk as is the case here and there would most likely be some damage to the centerboard which there is not except for the worn out pin hole."

 

[MABell]

So...

Does that mean his is saying it's general wear and tear?
If so, all the H26's and now the 260 would be showing this problem.
And this is the first I have ever seen this.

 

[jao1972]

Ridiculous, right? That was the insurer's surveyor's description of why the damage occurred. Based on his determination, the insurer denied the claim with the exclusions of wear and tear or latent defect. The damage has to be a result of impact to be payable. The second crack and the continued crack growth is probably a result of the centerboard forces on the now weakened area, but no way this started because of it.

I agree. By the surveyor's determination, this model of boat only would have a useful lifespan of about 10 years and all boats seeing moderate use would be showing this damage. We are hoping that with responses like these we can convince the insurer of the absurdity of the surveyor's determination and they will approve the claim.

 

[sea_casper]

Get another estimate, it should be able to be repaired from below, cutting from the inside doubles the repair, and it will never look like new on the inside. I have seen boats on their side to make the repair work easier.

 

[jao1972]

Yeah, we pretty much decided a while back that we did not want the inside cut out. As you said, it will never look right again. At least any bottom work will be covered by bottom paint. Reworking the forward portion of the centerboard pocket will be a trick, but should be doable.