Great Lakes and Hypothermia

Gunni · Feb 6, 2014

You Great Lakes sailors are cut from stern cloth! I haven't been in cold sweetwater since the government quit paying me to be there. Got tired of peeing into a wetsuit to stay warm

I would rather ride a gale in the fog off-shore than deal with that cold low-density liquid. One thing you might want to consider; there is a segment of the population who will experience muscle spasm and paralysis upon entry - they will have no ability to swim, their pulmonary system may stop. The air leaves the lungs, and they sink. I was never able to drown-proof in fresh without floatation due to low inherent buoyancy. And my ability to swim in cold water would go to zero, first the arms, then the legs. The rescue response was fold the arms, keep the legs pumping. But at some point the cold blood will stop your heart. Oh, and it would take a winch, block and tackle, or two beefy deckmates to bring me out. I have a rack of drysuits/wetsuits/gloves/boots etc. that taunt me to return, but it won't happen

Stay safe out there - cold water kills, show some respect.

Jackdaw · Feb 6, 2014

KristinKaye said:
Jackdaw, the NOAA numbers don't do me much good for fishing. I can predict the walleye spawn within a day with my thermometer. The NOAA with all their satellites can't.

All I'm saying is that I have yet to see any huge deviation from winter time ice out to spring water temps in just one season. At ice out the water temp will be 36-40 every year. The variations occur during the summer as the bays and shallows warm up. Remember a couple years ago when we had summer in March? The natural effect is that the bays start warming up earlier than they normally do. But the news outlets and scientists and NOAA made a big deal out of it and it was a classic case of Global Warming. If you believed what they said you could extrapolate that the lake would be a boiling cauldron in a matter of a year. Record high temps.

What really happened? The lake evened out. The lake does not stay stratified. It only stratifies to an extent in the summer. The lake turns over in late September and it evens out again, give or take a few degrees.

The original post indicated that we will have exceptionally cold water temps this spring at the start of the sailing season. We won't. It will be same as it has been for the last several centuries - cold, give or take a few degrees from 39F.

For recreational sailors, Superior is only safe to sail from May to the end of September when her waters are relatively placid. Superior has thoroughly kicked the butts of ocean captains with 40 years experience on the North Atlantic and sent their freighters to her depths - hundreds of them in the last century. And she claimed the only cutter the USCG has lost at sea in the last 50 years. No matter what time of year you play in her waters, she demands respect.

We are mostly agreeing on this point; for sure, the early spring water temps are in a very tight range every year. Your observations and the NOAA data point that out. It's because the lake is ether frozen over (0C) or close to it (2-4C).

What is interesting and where we agree less is how the same-day surface temps can vary year to year; starting in May and closing again mid-September. That has to be caused by some combination of the three effects I mentioned earlier:
winter air/water temps
ice out date
spring air temps

A cold winter for sure can have an effect. Fresh water is densest at 39F. So when the surface water is between 32 and 38, it will stay at the surface until it is warmed to 39F, when it will sink. Having a wider band of cold surface water will make this process take longer.

Beyond the NOAA data, this is observable phenomena. Anyone that simply swims in the lake will tell you that some years the surface water is colder than others.

Anyone that would 'extrapolate that the lake would be a boiling cauldron' has absolutely no grasp of science.

I wouldn't blame the loss of the Mesquite on the lake, the seas were running 2-4 feet at the time they drive her straight onto the rocks.

DougM · Feb 6, 2014

I sail on Northern Lake Michigan, and it can be cold at the surface any time during the summer if the wind changes. I keep a Life Sling on board, and have a Forespar hoist that can help a person overboard to at least get back to the sugarscoop transom. The other choice is to rig a snatch block on the boom and swing someone on board. It doesn't take long before someone in the water becomes less able to help themselves. Life jackets should be mandatory.

The best bet is to stay aboard for sure. We even keep winter jackets aboard. it can get chilly at night.

Jackdaw · Feb 6, 2014

Gunni said:
You Great Lakes sailors are cut from stern cloth! I haven't been in cold sweetwater since the government quit paying me to be there. Got tired of peeing into a wetsuit to stay warm I would rather ride a gale in the fog off-shore than deal with that cold low-density liquid. One thing you might want to consider; there is a segment of the population who will experience muscle spasm and paralysis upon entry - they will have no ability to swim, their pulmonary system may stop. The air leaves the lungs, and they sink. I was never able to drown-proof in fresh without floatation due to low inherent buoyancy. And my ability to swim in cold water would go to zero, first the arms, then the legs. The rescue response was fold the arms, keep the legs pumping. But at some point the cold blood will stop your heart. Oh, and it would take a winch, block and tackle, or two beefy deckmates to bring me out. I have a rack of drysuits/wetsuits/gloves/boots etc. that taunt me to return, but it won't happen Stay safe out there - cold water kills, show some respect.

LOL Gunni, you can come race with us anytime. Just to prove to you its not all nasty frozen ice, here we are playing during a postponement during Race Week.

KristinKaye · Feb 6, 2014

Jackdaw said:
What is interesting and where we agree less is how the same-day surface temps can vary year to year; starting in May and closing again mid-September. That has to be caused by some combination of the three effects I mentioned earlier:
winter air/water temps
ice out date
spring air temps

Jackdaw, I'm necessarily disagreeing on that point. Us sailors tend to start our season based on when we're on the schedule to get our boat splashed. Mother Nature can start the season earlier or later, as in the case of 2012 where she decided to get an early start. But at the start of 2013, the lake was back where it started from, pretty much, in March 2012. It's a thing that happens every year.

The cold winters when the lake freezes over to more of an extent are better for the next summer's sailing season in my experience. The water levels in the lake tend to stay up when that happens. And the marinas don't have to do as much dredging to keep the slips and channels hospitable for fin keel boats. In 88 or 89 when the lake froze over there was a trail up to Two Harbors on the ice for snowmobiles but it was only open after somebody blazed it for about 2 weeks before a big crack appeared with 150 yds of open water out past the Apostles. The smelt run was awesome that year. We couldn't hardly haul the nets out because they were so loaded, and you could bring a deep draft fin keeler right into the slips in Port Wing.

I'm hoping this year will be a repeat. It's nice to see the water levels coming up again, as the lake has been open for several years now in the winter and she lost a lot of water to evaporation over the last decade or so.

Jackdaw · Feb 6, 2014

KristinKaye said:
Jackdaw, I'm necessarily disagreeing on that point. Us sailors tend to start our season based on when we're on the schedule to get our boat splashed. Mother Nature can start the season earlier or later, as in the case of 2012 where she decided to get an early start. But at the start of 2013, the lake was back where it started from, pretty much, in March 2012. It's a thing that happens every year.

The cold winters when the lake freezes over to more of an extent are better for the next summer's sailing season in my experience. The water levels in the lake tend to stay up when that happens. And the marinas don't have to do as much dredging to keep the slips and channels hospitable for fin keel boats. In 88 or 89 when the lake froze over there was a trail up to Two Harbors on the ice for snowmobiles but it was only open after somebody blazed it for about 2 weeks before a big crack appeared with 150 yds of open water out past the Apostles. The smelt run was awesome that year. We couldn't hardly haul the nets out because they were so loaded, and you could bring a deep draft fin keeler right into the slips in Port Wing.

I'm hoping this year will be a repeat. It's nice to see the water levels coming up again, as the lake has been open for several years now in the winter and she lost a lot of water to evaporation over the last decade or so.

I'm totally with you regarding ice coverage and water levels. More so than any of the other Great Lakes, Superior looses a much larger percentage of her water to evaporation than outflow. And with 7.5 feet of draft, I'm a fan of deep water. Its amazing for such a deep lake, she gets so skinny near the edges. We have a list of places we can or cannot go based on water level. For one year at Pike's, our SLIP was on the list until they moved us down to the end and deeper water.

Right now, the lake is up a FOOT.

The lake looks mostly frozen over now.. Daily super-hi-rez images from our friends at NOAA... ;^)

http://coastwatch.glerl.noaa.gov/webdata/cwops/html/modis/region_map.html

dive7mmwet · Feb 6, 2014

Were on Lake Michigan, Our guy that drops our boat in always says sail boats need to launch later,,,Guess he gets more money from the stink pots rush to splash.I dive Lake Michigan & Superior and as said the deep bottom temps do not change.40 + years on the lake Giver her lots of respect,MOB drill's,Life line on when we rig,
As said the lake will be cold a while longer this year but with some sun and light breezes will warm the surface as usual but for us on the western shores one good blow out of the west and those cold bottom waters are forced up Brrrrr!

Lastly I don't subscribe to this but one old salt on our dock and he is like a Capt. Quint he never puts on a life jacket when out on the big pond and his answer is why prolong the agony?
Stay warm all,

DannyS · Feb 7, 2014

Late July

I thought I'd share a few photos of our typical cruising wear. Every "summer" we sail from the tropical weather of our home waters in the Apostle Islands on Superior's south shore, up to the north shore and into Canada. The trip usually includes an overnight passage which is always a bit spooky. The combination of the dark, the cold water, the cold air temps and the ability for Superior to create it's own weather ALWAYS makes us respect the lake, even if the weather is predicted to remain calm.
The first two photos were taken at the end of July this past summer. The one of me is after a long 24 hours of great sailing, then calm, then motoring, then good wind as the sun came up then 5 hours of close reaching into 4-5 ft. seas, 30+ knots of wind and knife edge reefs to navigate around. I stayed awake for all of it and loved every minute!

topcat0399 · Feb 7, 2014

DannyS said:
I thought I'd share a few photos of our typical cruising wear. Every "summer" we sail from the tropical weather of our home waters in the Apostle Islands on Superior's south shore, up to the north shore and into Canada. The trip usually includes an overnight passage which is always a bit spooky. The combination of the dark, the cold water, the cold air temps and the ability for Superior to create it's own weather ALWAYS makes us respect the lake, even if the weather is predicted to remain calm.
The first two photos were taken at the end of July this past summer. The one of me is after a long 24 hours of great sailing, then calm, then motoring, then good wind as the sun came up then 5 hours of close reaching into 4-5 ft. seas, 30+ knots of wind and knife edge reefs to navigate around. I stayed awake for all of it and loved every minute!

haha - my admiral often dresses the same except with one less layer perhaps, we being so far south and all.

Any water that is not frozen water is good water I'm beginning to you know what I always say!

I'm really looking forward to putting our boat in Lake Superior rather than just crewing for someone else. Hopefully within the next coupla trips around old Sol.

KristinKaye · Feb 7, 2014

25yearslater said:
We can go island hopping, travel to a foreign country, explore 1000s of miles of coast lines, metropolitan cities or rural harbors.

Yep. And don't forget freshwater fishing. Brook trout, cisco, whitefish, sturgeon, northerns, walleye, salmon, perch. It's a fisherman's (or fisherwoman's) paradise. I have fished in many places on earth, including several oceans and in Europe. Nowhere I have been matches Lake Superior. In fact, not even in the same ballpark.

jibes138 · Feb 7, 2014

You might consider wearing a wet suit. You can get a 3mm full suit for a fairly reasonable price. Using a 7mm suit I have scuba dived in 37 degree water. A dry suit would be another option but a little more costly. These suits keep you warm even out of the water and a 3mm is fairly comfortable. Look at all the west coast surfers, they all wear wet suits because the water is too cold without them. With a wet suit they stay in all day.

higgs · Feb 7, 2014

DannyS said:
I thought I'd share a few photos of our typical cruising wear. Every "summer" we sail from the tropical weather of our home waters in the Apostle Islands on Superior's south shore, up to the north shore and into Canada. The trip usually includes an overnight passage which is always a bit spooky. The combination of the dark, the cold water, the cold air temps and the ability for Superior to create it's own weather ALWAYS makes us respect the lake, even if the weather is predicted to remain calm.
The first two photos were taken at the end of July this past summer. The one of me is after a long 24 hours of great sailing, then calm, then motoring, then good wind as the sun came up then 5 hours of close reaching into 4-5 ft. seas, 30+ knots of wind and knife edge reefs to navigate around. I stayed awake for all of it and loved every minute!

That would be why I don't sail the Apostles.

DannyS · Feb 7, 2014

wetsuits

Yes, we all have wetsuits. The kids use them more than I do, it allows them to play on the beaches and in the water much longer...it also keeps the black flies from biting.

DannyS · Feb 7, 2014

higgs said:
That would be why I don't sail the Apostles.

I love it up there, my ideal temperature has me wearing shorts and a fleece jacket.

KristinKaye · Feb 27, 2014

For all the Great Lakes sailors, and folks interested in Great Lakes maritime history, I happened to come across this documentary that's on YouTube about the most famous shipwreck of them all
http://youtu.be/Q3uOnnIv5Qs

Jackdaw · Mar 3, 2014

25yearslater said:
Well it is looking rather bleak that there will be anything but real cold this spring. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...ctic-cold-for-spring-20140226,0,3674542.story Just having watched a report on NBC news, the lakes are 95% ice covered and this has never happened since records were kept since 1963 according to The Weather Channel's Jim Cantore. That is a lot of ice to melt.

The good news is; for the first time in 10 years, Lake Superior is FULL.

Randylb · Mar 3, 2014

Which in turn is great news for the Huron-Michigan basin. Open those gates.

Jackdaw · Mar 3, 2014

Randylb said:
Which in turn is great news for the Huron-Michigan basin. Open those gates.

We can't give anywhere enough to make up for what you lose through the St Claire River.

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