GPS balancing $ vs function, setting up masthead

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Jun 20, 2011
10
Oday 23 pop top Cozy Harbor, Southport ME
Two questions

First, what are recommendations (how much should I expect to spend) for GPS
I need to update compass, depth gauge, speed and wind indicators, would like to set it up with a big enough screen to read, separate screens or closer to tiller, all while balancing costs. Are most systems chart plotters also?
Are any of the old stuff that is thru hull re-usable for new equipment? How can I tell?

Second, I want to upgrade my masthead.
I have a top of mast light that has large bulb, tri-colored light. I have seen some good ideas to upgrade with LED's,
I also need to get a wind indicator. Is this part of GPS stuff or just get something mechanical. What precautions are there for trailering? Do u take wind indicator off?
How do you fit it all on masthead? Wind indicator, VHS antenna, lights? (I will post a picture of the light I have)

I guess while I am at it I could use recommendations for mast mounted work light, preferably LED on spreader?

Appreciate all your thoughts.

John
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,850
- -- -Bayfield
First of all, you only have a 23 foot boat, so I am not sure why you need all off the electronics that you desire unless you have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket. A simple Windex (one of the better spar flies) will tell you where the wind is coming from and all you have to do is look up. A GPS has a compass in it, a speedometer in it and it will also tell you a lot more information that you may or may not need. I recommend Garmin as they are very intuitive and easy to learn to use. There are other good units out there, but I have found you have to pour through the book to figure them out. I have experience with GPS and might have an advantage on your, but I still stick by Garmin. A depth sounder is useful and so you can buy any brand that fits your budget. If you have a depth sounder in your boat now that does not work, but the company is still in business, you might be able to send the unit back to them for repair. Otherwise, if they are out of business, then you can purchase a new unit and install it. You cannot use the same transducer and the replacement unit may or may not be the same hole size in your hull. If it is, then no problem. Pull the old out and put the new in. If it is smaller, then you can either leave the old one in place and cut a new hole to fit the new one, or you can pull the old one, fiberglass up the hole and redrill for the new one. If the new unit has a transducer that is larger than the old hole, then there is a way to cut the existing hole larger with a hole saw, but you need a helper. You take a piece of wood and place it inside the hull. Then you have someone stand on it (the plank has to be long enough so they can place their feet on it where the drill won't cut through their foot. Then you can center the pilot bit and drill out the hole bigger using the plank as your temporary hull.
GPS units vary in price. On a 23 foot boat, no need to buy a huge system. They have smaller systems with screens large enough to see easily. Or you can buy a hand held and there are also brackets where you can mount the handheld near the helm if you don't want to hang on to it all the time, or leave it on the seat besides you.
If the tri color light works and is visible for 2 miles (as required), then you don't need to go with LED lights, but if you can find suitable replacement bulbs, go for it. The Windex has a shaft that can be bent to keep the vane away from an antenna. Metz or Shakespeare Whip antennas are great for sailboats. Don't buy a big ass fiberglass one for the masthead. Shakespeare even has a very small one for smaller boats that work fine. There are a number of ways you can arrange several devices to fit on your masthead. You just have to get creative. I wouldn't spend money on an electronic apparent wind and wind speed instruments for a 23 foot boat. Save that for your larger vessel down the road. If you must know the apparent or true wind speed, buy a hand held, but you should be able to learn to read the water and get a good idea of wind speed relative to your vessel. If you want a deck light (usually something found on larger boats), you can get a mast mounted deck light that mounts on the leading edge. You just have to run wires to it, deal with the deck plugs and run it to a fused switch inside the cabin somewhere. Again, you only have a 23 foot boat, so there are other ways of illuminating the deck with hand held devices.
And, as I re read your post, yes, you should get a GPS that has a map screen so you can plot and see where you are at all times. But, get one with marine capabilities to create courses, etc. Some GPS's might tell you where you are, but you cannot really plot a course and get meaningful info such as distance and time to next waypoint, ultimate destination, etc. Cheaper ones are black and white and more expensive ones are color. Either work. Just research GPS's and the various models and learn what info they provide at what cost. It sounds to me like you need to buy a larger boat where you can outfit it with all the stuff you are mentioning. Go for it.
 
Jun 20, 2011
10
Oday 23 pop top Cozy Harbor, Southport ME
B Bill,
All good advice. I have been sailing smaller boats for some years now. I just got my 23' and excited to spend longer sails on it (even though it is only 23 ft it should be fun. What got me thinking to do more in setting it up is my wife and I spent a week sailing with a friend on a 42' boat. It was great getting far from home port and exploring down east of Maine. The fog was thick and gps was a nice fall back from my chart plotting to insure we were where we were supposed to be. I never figured out the radar overlay and had a hair raising close passage with a Ferry. (blowing our fog horn) theirs so loud it felt like it blew my hair straight back like looking into a fan.

The short and long. Loved the long cruise and excited to setup our 23 for more extended cruise.
gps was way to easy (usually I layout the whole trip and if foggy include time/distance to waypoints) so I guess I was hoping for a reasonable gps (handhelds are hard small and difficult to read) you make good points, I certainly can look up if I need to see where the wind is coming from and I guess what drives my questions is I don't know what a common gps package includes. It sounds like a basic chart that is comfortable to read without bells and whistles will do what I want. (depth sounders do not integrate unless I get to an expensive system?)

The masthead I need to add stuff to. I will probably update to LCD only to help me spend some time on the water. Wind indicator (always used the hairs on my neck and tell tales) is straightforward (Do I take it off for trailering?) VHF whip I will look into something small to fit my boat.

The only other thing I may add (my run in with Ferry) is a radar reflector of which I Ned to find a small one (really don't want something huge hanging in the rigging of our little craft)

Again thanks for your sound advice, it does bring me back down to earth from our big boat ride....and yes...a bigger boat will be in the cards down the road, although trailer to some Canadian destinations and maybe some Southern ones is really appealing!

John
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,850
- -- -Bayfield
A Windex, or spar fly of some sort can be easily removed for trailering. Might as well keep it in good condition for as long as you can, but if you do break it, you can buy parts rather than having to buy the whole thing again.
I haven't priced out GPS's of late, but I am sure you can find something for around $400 and maybe less. No sense in buying the very large units for thousands. The smaller ones have large enough screens to see by and you want to be able to remove it from a bracket so you can lock it up when not on the boat. Larger boats have wheels where you can have a cluster of electronics around the helm. Tiller boats pose a more difficult installation, but you will figure out where to put it where no one steps on it or knocks it off while tacking, etc. You can buy an inexpensive radar reflector. They fold up when not in use and you hoist them when you think you need them. They come in cardboard or aluminum and both work. When sailing off shore you really need to keep an eye out, however, as you cannot expect large commercial vessels to alter course for you. They have the right of way so you have to be on top of it if traveling in shipping lanes. Having a trailerable boat has its advantages like you point out to haul it to other bodies of water to sail on. I have done a lot of that in my earlier years of sailing and it is rewarding. But, it is limiting when spending long periods of time on board. I guess the longest I have stayed on a small boat (27 foot Express 27) was 41 days and sailed it around Key West and the Dry Tortugas. The boat was very well built and we got stuck out at the Tortugas due to weather and ended up sailing through mountains of seas to get back to Key West. I don't think I would want to have done that on an O'Day 23 and not sure the boat would have handled it. So, you really want to stick with coastal cruising (or inland cruising) and not get in a situation you hope the boat holds up. Small O'Days are nice little boats, but not designed for extreme situations. You want to live long enough to buy that larger boat where you can venture out more.
 
Jun 20, 2011
10
Oday 23 pop top Cozy Harbor, Southport ME
B Bill, sounds like some great sails! Bahamas sounds really nice right now!
I have been looking at Windex, glad to hear they are easy enough to remove as needed.
$400. Is about what was thinking I might need to spend to get something decent. Can you (or anyone) give model they would recommend?
Running a radar reflector up as needed sound like a good solution. I didn't like the idea of large stuff permanently in rigging.

I like your closing, half the fun is the adventure but the other half is living to tell about it!
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,850
- -- -Bayfield
I just went out to www.garmin.com and then went to the marine GPS section and there are three that might interest you from $399 to $499 (street - you can find them cheaper elsewhere). The GPSMAP441 has preloaded coastal maps which might be useful for you. Otherwise you have to load maps for where you intend to sail. You can spend more, of course and go from a 4" screen to a 5" screen (another hundred bucks and up). You don't need NMEA on this boat, but maybe on another bigger boat in your future. You can spend about the same for a hand held which give you most of the same features (at least all that you need). The screen is smaller, but it is portable, which means if you go on a trip on another boat, you can bring it with you (or use it as a back up).
 
Jun 9, 2008
1,850
- -- -Bayfield
BTW I envy where you live albeit a short season. I have been to Maine a few times (mostly around Camden) and I like it a lot and I really like the boats out there. The brightwork (varnish) on boats there are the best in the world. Very pretty area.
 
Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Sales abound on the Garmin GPSMap 76Cx. We have one and it is very good, easy to read even on the smaller screen. A handheld is really just a smaller "chartplotter." They're are being sold by West Marine for less than $200, but you have to buy the charts for another $100. That's still a great deal, since the charts cover the entire US and some southern parts of Canada. When we bought ours it was much more expensive and I could only buy packages of local charts.
 
Oct 21, 2005
205
Oday 26 Indian Cove, Guilford, CT LIS
We use a GPSMap 76Csx on our 26, with a backup of an old GPS 48. Check Amazon, that's where we found the best price.
 
Oct 21, 2005
205
Oday 26 Indian Cove, Guilford, CT LIS
I guess while I am at it I could use recommendations for mast mounted work light, preferably LED on spreader?
We have a combined steaming light/deck light. The deck light is only used for very short times if needed when anchoring after dark. We rely mostly on the new LED headlamps, of which there are many to choose from.
 

RECESS

.
Dec 20, 2003
1,509
Catalina 27 . St. Mary's Georgia
Whatever make you go with I would recomend that the chartplotter and depth finder can be used together. We use our Gps for some fishing to hit holes 20 to 30 miles offshore, and a bit of coastal cruising. We have a seperate GPS chartplotter than the depthfinder but both are Humminbird. I can use the transducer from the depth finder and get the read out on the chartplotter if something went wrong with the depth finder's viewer. Look closely at what you will be using it for. We use the drift alarm on our chartplotter whenever we are anchored out. You also want to make sure the chartplotter can communicate with an auto tiller in case you decide to have an auto pilot in the future. Also look if the chartplotter comes with charts. We had Navionics Gold pre-installed on ours.
 
Jun 20, 2011
10
Oday 23 pop top Cozy Harbor, Southport ME
Some great replies, thank you.

I looked at the 76sx online and it does look better than a lot of handhelds i have seen (more readable) and enough so as to have me reconsidering them...but i also like the drift alarm and redundancy of transducers that Recess mentions. I had considered an auto helm, it would certainly make some sails easier (tiller tamer now)

so i guess i find myself just between the two again. Barnacle Bill had suggested some in my price range that would be permanent and offer drift alarms, i would have to look into auto helm countability.

if money was not such a concern i can see some benefit for having both
 
Oct 21, 2005
205
Oday 26 Indian Cove, Guilford, CT LIS
The 76csx is what I use for a drift alarm. Even my old model 48 has one. I use a Garmin 160 Blue fish finder that I had on another boat as my sounder. I hooked it to a brass through hull so I have water temp and Knot meter. Here is an old picture with the old Model 48
 

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Feb 26, 2004
23,360
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
The 76Csx is a more expensive version of the 76Cx (without the s). Difference: the s has (I think, but don't quote me) a barometer and elevation data, not really required for boating.
 
Oct 21, 2005
205
Oday 26 Indian Cove, Guilford, CT LIS
The 76Csx is a more expensive version of the 76Cx (without the s). Difference: the s has (I think, but don't quote me) a barometer and elevation data, not really required for boating.
That is correct. But with the pricing on Amazon at the time, and the fact that they didn't have Cx, That is what we got. If I remember correctly the CSx was even lower than Defender for the Cx. At this point, I don't think Defender is carrying Garmin any more.
 
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