Georgia Law

[Buck420]

??? Looks like about 65nm staright line off shore making it conservatively a 12hr run .... not that much daylight these days.
Sunrise/set for GA - Jan 7, 2012 7:43 AM 5:44 PM -- 10h 01m

OK, it IS pushing it...
but... you've also got about an hour of total twilight to add, giving you about 11 hrs of usable light this time of year.
Motorsail, if necessary, to keep up at least 6 kts (you're going to be motoring if you stay inside, so what's the difference).
Fernandina is a good all weather inlet that can be safely entered even after dark, if necessary.
I believe Rodger could do it safely, but it's a moot point, as it looks like he is staying inside as I write this.

I (motor)sailed from inside St Catherine's Sound to Mayport about 6 weeks ago (Nov 30).
Left at 06:30 and came into Mayport (~ 20 miles further than Fernandina) at 19:30... ~ 13 hrs, ( average6.5kts). Yes, it was dark as I motored into the St Johns, but I could/would have made Fernandina easily before dark.

 

[Jimm]

OK, it IS pushing it...
but... you've also got about an hour of total twilight to add, giving you about 11 hrs of usable light this time of year.
Motorsail, if necessary, to keep up at least 6 kts (you're going to be motoring if you stay inside, so what's the difference).
Fernandina is a good all weather inlet that can be safely entered even after dark, if necessary.
I believe Rodger could do it safely, but it's a moot point, as it looks like he is staying inside as I write this.

I (motor)sailed from inside St Catherine's Sound to Mayport about 6 weeks ago (Nov 30).
Left at 06:30 and came into Mayport (~ 20 miles further than Fernandina) at 19:30... ~ 13 hrs, ( average6.5kts). Yes, it was dark as I motored into the St Johns, but I could/would have made Fernandina easily before dark.

Would be a nice overnight run - arrive early AM

 

[Ian McColgin]

The sign says "esturine waters" so they've gotten outside the marsh. However, the 30 days might mean 30 days in one spot - that's been the general interpretation around the nation when the issue was litigated - and a boat that doesn't sit more than a month at a time in one place can likely spend years floating around Georgia. But who knows what some local clam cop might think.

However interpreted, there is a legitimate issue and one hopes it's being addressed with some reason.

 

[hoges in wa]

Hi Roger.
We went out at Charleston and back in at Fernandina. Missed all of Georgia so we know not of what you speak. Florida has been great so far. We've reached Fort Pierce and are staying here for a few days.

 

[All U Get]

If any of you had actually READ that sign, you'd have seen that the law doesn't prohibit liveaboards in coastal WATERS but only in the coastal MARSHES. And it's a law that was badly needed.
quote]
Being a poor reader, I went back and read it again and I'm with Peggie. I'd feel worse if I got a fine for not knowing there was a law including a 30 day limit.
All U Get

 

[Benny17441]

Living here in Florida we know a thing or two about illegal aliens. They rarely live aboard yachts but many do work in marinas and boat yards. After many years and millions of dollars spent in trying to get rid of illegals they are now returning home in droves by their own accord and paying for their own plane ticket. How was this accomplished? Simply by negating them the opportunity to get a drivers licence. Life without a drivers license in this country is very harsh. The downside is that it is the good harwoking people that are leaving while the not so law abbiding ones remain.

 

[Tom J]

I'm sure you have. If you pay for their dockage or the $20.00 a day fee to land a dinghy, I'm sure you'll experience that southern hospitality.

Aside from cost, I much prefer the comfort and privacy and comfort of anchoring. Some of it is for the same reasons people have sailboats rather than powerboat that gets there faster with less effort or backpack and camp in tents instead of owning an RV. It's the essence of cruising for me and I find it quieter than listening to fenders creaking, stereo's and TV's going, and having everyone in the marina stop by to chat. I enjoy handling anchors and ground tackle in the same way I enjoy sailing. It's a skill that is satisfying to exercise.

Most towns have a dock or some other place you can land a dinghy so you can leave some money in the local stores. The ones that have very good facilities, like Elizabeth City, have gotten quite a bit of my money. Towns like this one don't get a dime from me.

We agree with you on all points. On our last cruise up the East Coast, we anchored out most of the time, with the help of the Skipper Bob cruising guide, and our new solar panel. We've enjoyed the hospitality of Elizabeth City, Morehead City, Oriental, Moor Haven, and numerous other cruiser friendly towns. But our favorite places to stay are isolated anchorages with no one else around. We spent a relaxing afternoon and night in Mosquito Lagoon, just north of Cape Canaveral, without another boat in sight.
More of the same to you.

 

[Roger Long]

Being a poor reader, I went back and read it again and I'm with Peggie.

I'll have some crow for breakfast. I read it as meaning, "marshes and tidal bottoms". By "tidal bottoms" I assumed they meant water shallow enough to anchor in. How many boats found in marinas can anchor above the low tide line?

I realized yesterday that the correct interpretation is "marshes and tidal bottoms in marshes" That is consistent with Peggie's report on the original intent of the law. As near as I can tell after the last couple of days, Georgia's coast in 95% marshes so I'm not sure how important this a distinction is though unless they mean above MLW. That might apply to poor people building shanties on rafts but are there enough of those in marinas to have this information displayed in the place usually given over to instructions relevant to cruisers such as "Don't feed the dolphins and use pumpouts"? Why not have posted a section of the criminal code about theft or assault? People on boats have been know to do those things as well.

I'm not here to debate coastal management and policy but to report on the experience and ambiance of my cruise. Having this sign be the first written words I see after setting foot in the state and the next the nasty note left on Lee and Lynn's dinghy rather colored my first impressions. It's an aesthetic thing. I like the trees down here better than North Carolina but having people walking in the park at Elizabeth City stop and say how glad they were that were visiting their city made a stronger impression on me than vegetation.

We're presently anchored off Saint Catherine's Island. Yesterday we walked miles of beautiful beach looking out at the Atlantic Horizon with not a house or human structure other than fishing boats and navigational aids in sight anywhere. Willmarsh3 is right. This could well end up being my favorite part of the ICW once I get away from the towns and marinas.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It's been my experience that government is reactive and generally let's things get to the point of tettering on disaster before they do anything.

Would you prefer a gov't that creates a whole bunch of new regulations without bothering to find out whether they're needed just because some special interest group convinces 'em that it's the "right thing to do?"

Oh wait...we already have a gov't that does that far more often than it reacts to real problems that actually need solving.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Recruiting ...

Peggy, I like your thinking! We need you in the War Room.

 

[Merlin Clark]

It's been my experience that government is reactive and generally let's things get to the point of tettering on disaster before they do anything.

Would you prefer a gov't that creates a whole bunch of new regulations without bothering to find out whether they're needed just because some special interest group convinces 'em that it's the "right thing to do?"

Oh wait...we already have a gov't that does that far more often than it reacts to real problems that actually need solving.

Peggy, please don't try and paint me with that brush. I'm not a fan of an intrusive big brother but I do think we need more proactivity than we have in some areas like allowing fish stocks to be almost wiped out before taking action when the action can be as simple as limiting the total haul.
We watched our clams in the IRL get wiped out by poor management- the rule was 1 bushel for non commercial and 2 for commercial clammers, but when we went from very few people actually clamming to hundreds from the bays up North as well as anyone here that had nothing better to do we were wiped out to the point that our few resident commercial clammers gave up and quit.
If you're not willing to protect what you have, don't expect it to be there tomorrow.
No government involvement is as big a disater as total government involvement.

 

[jhnewsome17]

Roger, Peggy has already explained why the law was needed back some 20+ years ago. Otherwise, our rivers would be filled with floating barges of liveaboards. During my 12+ years of owning a boat on the coast I have NEVER heard of DNR or local police coming on a dock and questioning whether or not there were liveaboards. And I can assure you there have been many people who lived on their boats for extended periods in technical violation of the law.

NOW, as of January 1, the law has changed and liveaboards is legal. Obviously, there are stipulations in order to prevent the abuse we had decades ago. I see from your Spot Tracker that you are near St. Simon's Island. I suggest that you stop in at Morningstar Marina on the Frederica River (just off the ICW) and speak to Chris Furgeson, the manager. Chris will be more than happy to explain the nuts and bolts of the changes in the law.

 

[jhnewsome17]

Roger, I think you'll find most marinas in GA to be very friendly and accommodating to transients. Just this past weekend at Morningstar Marina we had a seminar and discussion on cruising the ICW and we realize that GA is often overlooked as "fertile" cruising grounds because of our strong position to protect the coastal marshland.

There's no question that we aren't "Florida" or "North Carolina" but I think the boater can find something special about our coastline if they are willing to give it a try. The St. Simon's/Jekyll Island area is excellent for an extended stopover. Cumberland Island and St. Mary's further to the south near the Florida line is excellent.

Please take me up on the suggestion to talk to Chris at Morningstar Marinas. Feel free to mention that James Newsome recommended you seek him out. Good luck with the rest of your trip.

 

[Roger Long]

I was right the first time.

NOW, as of January 1, the law has changed and liveaboards is legal.

I'm too far past to talk to the fellow you suggested but I turned up the following with Google and learned some interesting things:

http://savannahnow.com/news/2011-08...-live-their-boats-savannah-state#.TwwkeoHnunI

http://jacksonville.com/news/georgia/2011-08-18/story/georgia-may-ease-rules-living-your-boat-0

http://southernboating.com/blog/category/southeast-report/

According to these articles, and contrary to the consensus in the above posts, my original interpretation of the sign was correct and it is directed at boaters. It is illegal to stay aboard your boat more than 30 days a year in the marshlands or tidal waters of Georgia. If I cruise around the Sea Islands until the first week of February, as I might at this point, I'll be in violation of the law. A GA resident who takes a two week cruising vacation and goes out most weekends will have broken the law.

It's clearly not enforced but I don't like laws that make violators of large segments of the population giving law enforcement the ability to cherry pick, often for reasons having nothing to do with the technical violation. If I spend this week, a week on the return, and the two weeks next December, I'll also be a lawbreaker. Maybe I am strange but I don't like to feel that I am breaking a law, especially in a place where I am a visitor.

The changes to the law that took effect January 1 won't change a thing as far as I am concerned. You will be able to file an application that needs to be renewed annually and receive approval to stay in a marina that has also gone through an approval process (only about five at this point). If you use that as a base for cruising that takes you away from the marina so that you spend more than 30 days aboard your boat away from that dock in GA, you will still be in violation. Cruisers like me that might want to spend a month cruising around and spending money in GA will still be breaking the law.

The primary reason for changing the law appears to be that a lot of boaters who needed to get their boats out of FL during hurricane season and a lot of cruisers were avoiding GA due to the reputation this law was giving the state. It evidently got so mangled up with compromises that it isn't going to change anything for those folks. People who want to use their boat as a floating apartment to reside and have jobs in one spot now have an option but long term cruisers are still going to be law breakers if they spend more than 30 days in this state.

All they needed to do to fix this law was add the words, "in one location", after the 30 days. Laws passed since this one address the other problems, such as sewage and garbage disposal, the led to its passing in the 70's. What is it that make legislatures universally stupid?

 

[HukilauMike]

Re: I was right the first time.

You have to wonder what problem Georgia was seeking to address when it passed this law. I find it hard to believe that this statute was written to address the shacks-on-stilts problem that was so eloquently described by Peggy. As Roger points out, the language is so broad that it clearly (at least to me) covers anyone in a boat who stays aboard for thirty days. When Florida passed its version of this law, it was made plain by the advocates that they sought to actually limit the number of cruisers, as the owners of shoreside mansions did not want to look out at anchored yachts.

My only guess is that Georgia is still concerned about illegal discharges from long-term cruisers, and felt that it would be easier to enforce a thirty day limit than actually catch someone in the act of illegal dumping. If true, this is one of those laws where the state writes the statute in the hope that a "fair" and limited application of a purposefully over-inclusive law will lead to an overall net benefit to the people. Of course, as Roger has pointed out, despite the best intentions of the generally honorable law enforcement community, unfair prosecution of the law will happen.

 

[rbgarr]

We lived in Savannah for twenty years on the Skidaway Island Roger mentioned. (Sorry about that Bridge closing on you, Roger.) There has been a pitched battle going on for years between the bridge tenders and the many thousands of people on the island who want the bridge to be open to boat traffic for VERY short spans of time only. A high rise bridge has been in the Transportation budget for sometime but we all know how that goes.

I suspect that one reason for the unwelcoming nature of the state's liveaboard law is that there is very little cruising done by in-state residents. As beautiful as the marshes are, few boat owners and families (at least in the Savannah section of the ICW) spend much time afloat beyond the weekend day trip for fishing or tubing or general zipping around. Then it's back to the marina or launch ramp and off to do something else. The only place I regularly saw overnighters anchor out was at Isle of Hope (where some derelicts were discouragingly in evidence) and in a beautiful creek near Blackbeard Island, as I've mentioned before. Because of this lack of tradition or habit or desire to cruise the ICW and anchor out by state residents, I imagine the impetus has been to treat cruisers as mere interlopers or undesirable transients by many. It's too bad because I have very fond memories of escaping the summer's heat by spending nights aboard our small open motorboat in lovely, breeze-wafted anchorages with my children looking at the constellations while listening to porpoises blowing and splashing in the bright moonlight.