Georgia Law

[Roger Long]

During some discussions here about over the top law enforcement in Florida, someone made the comment that Georgia is even worse. Half a day into the state, I’m seeing evidence that they might be right.

This is the first sign I saw while making a fuel and lunch stop.

Wow. The normal cruising I do in Maine would put me in violation of this and GA is a state with a 10-12 month boating season. A two week vacation and a few weekends and an avid cruiser would be breaking state law. If I spend more than 30 days here, I will be too. I guess I won’t be spending as much money in GA as I thought I might.

I also learned that the local police come to the marina every day to check for illegal immigrants on boats. Why would immigrants, legal or otherwise be on yachts? Well, I imagine it is a lot nicer to patrol marinas than migrant work camps.

We anchored for the night at the next town and Lynn went ashore to inquire about stores for a major re-provisioning. She left the dinghy at what looked like the marina dinghy dock and returned to find a long note hand written on cardboard saying that it was a private dock, the town doesn’t take charity cases, and we should get our trash out of town before something happens to our boats. We’ve decided that we can get by with the food on board, even though it may not be as interesting as we would like, and would prefer not to leave any of our money in this town.

Every state and community has its own character and this is one of the states that has passed a draconian anti-immigrant law (which I understand is costing it billions as international companies pull out). I don’t think I’m going to like it here nearly as much as the Carolinas.

A few days later: I love Georgia but don't read through the following replies without reading this one: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=136893&#post880049

 

[jimmyb]

Can you say "REDNECK"

 

[jackhartjr]

Roger, I think the term is 'illegal alien', not 'anti-immigrant'.And I would not spend a dime there either. (Talking about the neighborhood, not the entire state.)JackPS...enjoying reading about your trip, thanks a ton!

 

[Tom J]

Disappointing news. We've had several nice visits at the Isle of Hope marina on the ICW near Savanah, borrowig bicycles and exploring the town. Thought it might be a good place to spend some time in the future. Might have to re-think that.

 

[Binnacle Bat]

Talk about Southern hospitality. Enough to make us taciturn yankees seem downright warm & friendly.

 

[MrUnix]

To be fair, notice that it says within Georgias marshlands, and the law cited is part of the Georgia Coastal Marshlands Protection Act which was passed back in 1970.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

It's actually a very reasonable law, badly needed

If any of you had actually READ that sign, you'd have seen that the law doesn't prohibit liveaboards in coastal WATERS but only in the coastal MARSHES. And it's a law that was badly needed.

15 years ago the coastal marshes, rivers and creeks on the GA coast were littered with floating "shanty towns"--not "yachts," but home made rafts with campers and shacks that were little more than cardboard boxes on 'em...permanent residences. Some of these communities numbered as many as 50. Their toilet waste, gray water and garbage went directly overboard...they helped themselves to electricity by splicing into power lines...illegal aliens, drug dealers...real scum of the earth that made the "occupy" campsites look like luxury condo complexes. The state first tried to just clean 'em up...get 'em to install holding tanks or treatment devices (one group stiffed my company for 14 Lectra/Sans)...establish some kind standards. It didn't work...leaving the state no choice but to do the equivalent of bulldozing the nehborhoods: the inhabitants were given a reasonable deadline to remove/relocate their dwellings...the state removed and demolished those that remained after the deadline. And as a result, the coastal marshlands are no longer floating slums and open sewers, but habitats for all kinds of wildlife again.

"...this is one of the states that has passed a draconian anti-immigrant law (which I understand is costing it billions as international companies pull out)."

"Draconian law???" If the same conditions that led to the GA law existed in the rivers and estuaries that feed the Chesapeake Bay or in the rivers that feed coastal Maine or LIS, you and every other genius who's commented here would be leading the charge to do exactly what Georgia has done: clean it up. But let one of you post a photo of a sign that neither he nor any of the rest of you actually bothered to READ (the only part of it that registered with any of you was "prohibit liveaboards") describing what Georgia DID do about it, and you're all over 'em as "rednecks" and " Southern hospitality enough to make us taciturn yankees seem downright warm & friendly."

"I also learned that the local police come to the marina every day to check for illegal immigrants on boats. Why would immigrants, legal or otherwise be on yachts? Well, I imagine it is a lot nicer to patrol marinas than migrant work camps."

You might consider learning a little about the South, Roger. There haven't been many "migrant work camps" since the Civil War destroyed most of the plantations...most of those are in California. Apparently you aren't aware that as enforcement has increased on the FL coast, the GA coast has become a very popular landing spot for illegal aliens and drug runners...that those marshlands create excellent cover for various kinds of water craft--and air craft too--that bring 'em in. There are a couple of ICE and DEA impound yards near Brunswick...very few "yachts," but a lot of go-fasts and modified boats of all kinds that prove it can be very productive to patrol the marinas and the estuaries. Apparently too, you haven't visited any of those marinas to see that work boats and commercial fishing vessels far outnumber the "yachts" in many of 'em.

And I don't know who told you that international companies are pulling out of GA, but they're wrong...GA has one of the largest Hispanic and Asian populations in the country...and there was an article in one of the major business publications just recently about how international and multi-national companies are relocating TO Georgia in droves!

 

[Roger Long]

To be fair, notice that it says within Georgias marshlands, ...

But, right after that, it says "including tidal water bottoms". Based on some of the controversies in Maine and elsewhere, I would interpret that to mean waters shallow enough to anchor in. Does the GA law mean above the low tide line? In that case most cruising anchoring wouldn't count towards the 30 days.

I'll let you know in a few days but, looking ahead at the charts, is there anywhere to anchor in GA that isn't in marshlands?

 

[Roger Long]

If any of you had actually READ that sign, you'd have seen that the law doesn't prohibit liveaboards in coastal WATERS but only in the coastal MARSHES. And it's a law that was badly needed. 15 years ago the coastal marshes, rivers and creeks on the GA coast were littered with floating "shanty towns" ...

See other response about tidal waters.

I glad though to hear that this law was passed to address a real problem and solved it. Of all the signs that might be posted at the head of a marina ramp, it does seem strange to have mandated this one. The problem with laws usually isn't the law itself but the nature of enforcement. The same factors that turned the war on terror into a war on nail clippers and shampoo make me wonder about this being the most important thing a marina has to convey as I walk up to the office.

And I don't know who told you that international companies are pulling out of GA,..

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...w-costs-millions-in-unharvested-crops/240774/

http://www.care2.com/causes/red-tape-from-georgia-immigration-law-catastrophic-will-cost-jobs.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/05/georgia-immigration-law-economy_n_995889.html

 

[Roger Long]

We've had several nice visits at the Isle of Hope marina ..

I'm sure you have. If you pay for their dockage or the $20.00 a day fee to land a dinghy, I'm sure you'll experience that southern hospitality.

Aside from cost, I much prefer the comfort and privacy and comfort of anchoring. Some of it is for the same reasons people have sailboats rather than powerboat that gets there faster with less effort or backpack and camp in tents instead of owning an RV. It's the essence of cruising for me and I find it quieter than listening to fenders creaking, stereo's and TV's going, and having everyone in the marina stop by to chat. I enjoy handling anchors and ground tackle in the same way I enjoy sailing. It's a skill that is satisfying to exercise.

Most towns have a dock or some other place you can land a dinghy so you can leave some money in the local stores. The ones that have very good facilities, like Elizabeth City, have gotten quite a bit of my money. Towns like this one don't get a dime from me.

 

[Jimm]

GA

I'm with you Roger with regard to appearances, and I wouldn't stay anywhere I didn't feel welcome for very long --- Georgia's loss if this is the face they present.
I am curious whether there are instances of harrassment or enforcement action against any of the hundreds (thousands?) of cruisers that ply the GA ICW every year.
In any event, fire up the diesel and head further south - it's warmer there . We'll see you later in the Spring here in welcoming Chesapeake country!

 

[Buck420]

Well, Rodger,

As the past few days have shown, the Carolinas may be a bit "chilly",
for the most part, for the next couple of months.
Georgia appears to be not terribly, "Strider friendly".
And, you've said you don't like Florida.
Hummmm ...

Despite your perceived aversion to Florida, I still think ( IMHO ) ... that you'd really like the St John's River/Palatka/Ocala/Lake George, area ... if you can get under the Green Cove Springs bridge.
Since you're only a few days run down to Jax, .... and turning back North may be tough even with your diesel heater ... why not give it a try ... you might just change your mind about Florida ( North/Central Fla, anyway).

 

[Roger Long]

Despite your perceived aversion to Florida, I still think ( IMHO ) ... that you'd really like the St John's River/Palatka/Ocala/Lake George, area ... if you can get under the Green Cove Springs bridge.

You convinced me in Hampton that northern FL is a different state. Green Cove Springs has been my general target since although I unfortunately can't make it under the bridge. I'd like to see St. Augustine but there looks like a lot of very tedious ditch between Jacksonville and there.

Georgia continues to charm. We came up to the Skidaway Island Bridge with another boat waiting as it opened. We'd called the bridge, given them our position, and been told to come on through. We were about two minutes behind the other boat and the bridge tender lowered the bridge right in front of us. We now have to wait an hour and will miss slack tide at Hell Gate which may put us a full day behind.

 

[Buck420]

If you get a NICE weather window, it's a day sail (sunup to sundown) out of St Catherine's Sound down to Fernandina Inlet. I know you don't much like going out, but w/ nice conditions, you'll be just offshore, and it'll be far easier than staying in the ditch, dealing w/ the "friendly" bridges, and shoaling bottom(s). .... Just a thought.

You'll like Fernandina ( nice anchorage there) .... & St Augustine... and down to Titusville area, also.

 

[Buck420]

Also,

Re the ICW between Jax & St Augustine.... it's not bad, and, there is a very nice anchorage at the South end of the land cut (just south of Jax Beach) ...
that is, if you decide to stay in the ICW, instead of turning right and going down the St Johns R to Green Cove Springs ...

 

[willmarsh3]

When I cruised through Georgia it was perhaps the most beautiful state in the south. There was very little development on the ICW and almost limitless natural beauty. Also I found St Simons Marina near Brunswick to be quite hospitable. I met several other cruising folks there including one with a steel sailboat.

My transit through Georgia is here at the end of July, 2001. Sorry I dont have more pictures.
http://www.willmarsh3.net/bc/index.html

Best wishes for an enjoyable cruise

 

[Wanderer138]

Ditto on Fernandina Beach/St. Augustine/Titusville. If you wait for a cold front (this time of year they go through about every five to eight days) you can close reach/beam reach/broad reach south along the coast as the wind veers. If you stay between two and three miles offshore you'll be in the lee of the coast and seas should be moderate.

St. Mary's (Fernandina Beach), Mayport (Jacksonville) and Port Canaveral (Cocoa Beach, Titusville) are good all-weather inlets. They get a lot of commercial and military traffic and are well charted and marked. St. Augustine Inlet and Ponce Inlet (Daytona Beach) are narrow and outgoing tidal current can be strong. These inlets can be rough if the wind opposes the outgoing tide but local sailors don't seem to mind. These inlets should not be attempted at night or in poor weather. Check the wind forecast and tide tables for your ETA to be sure. If you'd rather not risk St. Augustine inlet, the run down the ICW from Mayport to St. Augustine is quite scenic and should take less than eight hours. Once the ICW broadens about 10 miles north of St. Augustine, there's room to sail and places to anchor.

 

[Merlin Clark]

If any of you had actually READ that sign, you'd have seen that the law doesn't prohibit liveaboards in coastal WATERS but only in the coastal MARSHES. And it's a law that was badly needed.

15 years ago the coastal marshes, rivers and creeks on the GA coast were littered with floating "shanty towns"--not "yachts," but home made rafts with campers and shacks that were little more than cardboard boxes on 'em...permanent residences. Some of these communities numbered as many as 50. Their toilet waste, gray water and garbage went directly overboard...they helped themselves to electricity by splicing into power lines...illegal aliens, drug dealers...real scum of the earth that made the "occupy" campsites look like luxury condo complexes. The state first tried to just clean 'em up...get 'em to install holding tanks or treatment devices (one group stiffed my company for 14 Lectra/Sans)...establish some kind standards. It didn't work...leaving the state no choice but to do the equivalent of bulldozing the nehborhoods: the inhabitants were given a reasonable deadline to remove/relocate their dwellings...the state removed and demolished those that remained after the deadline. And as a result, the coastal marshlands are no longer floating slums and open sewers, but habitats for all kinds of wildlife again.

"...this is one of the states that has passed a draconian anti-immigrant law (which I understand is costing it billions as international companies pull out)."

"Draconian law???" If the same conditions that led to the GA law existed in the rivers and estuaries that feed the Chesapeake Bay or in the rivers that feed coastal Maine or LIS, you and every other genius who's commented here would be leading the charge to do exactly what Georgia has done: clean it up. But let one of you post a photo of a sign that neither he nor any of the rest of you actually bothered to READ (the only part of it that registered with any of you was "prohibit liveaboards") describing what Georgia DID do about it, and you're all over 'em as "rednecks" and " Southern hospitality enough to make us taciturn yankees seem downright warm & friendly."

"I also learned that the local police come to the marina every day to check for illegal immigrants on boats. Why would immigrants, legal or otherwise be on yachts? Well, I imagine it is a lot nicer to patrol marinas than migrant work camps."

You might consider learning a little about the South, Roger. There haven't been many "migrant work camps" since the Civil War destroyed most of the plantations...most of those are in California. Apparently you aren't aware that as enforcement has increased on the FL coast, the GA coast has become a very popular landing spot for illegal aliens and drug runners...that those marshlands create excellent cover for various kinds of water craft--and air craft too--that bring 'em in. There are a couple of ICE and DEA impound yards near Brunswick...very few "yachts," but a lot of go-fasts and modified boats of all kinds that prove it can be very productive to patrol the marinas and the estuaries. Apparently too, you haven't visited any of those marinas to see that work boats and commercial fishing vessels far outnumber the "yachts" in many of 'em.

And I don't know who told you that international companies are pulling out of GA, but they're wrong...GA has one of the largest Hispanic and Asian populations in the country...and there was an article in one of the major business publications just recently about how international and multi-national companies are relocating TO Georgia in droves!

Thanks for the background and facts on this Peggy! It's been my experience that government is reactive and generally let's things get to the point of tettering on disaster before they do anything. At least that's the way things are here in sunny FL.

 

[Jimm]

If you get a NICE weather window, it's a day sail (sunup to sundown) out of St Catherine's Sound down to Fernandina Inlet. .

??? Looks like about 65nm staright line off shore making it conservatively a 12hr run .... not that much daylight these days.
Sunrise/set for GA - Jan 7, 2012 7:43 AM 5:44 PM -- 10h 01m

 

[justsomeguy]

we should get our trash out of town before something happens to our boats.

'Nuff said. Move on. This kind of "hospitality" should probably be treated as a threat. Save the note for evidence? Sad, really.