Gennaker: forward of forestay or aft?

[AlastairLC]

How do you rig your gennaker - with tack line to block forward of the forestay or aft? Forward gets the tack further out front of the bow, but requires getting the gennaker around the forestay when gybing (either socked or free) and long sheets. Aft allows for genoa-like gybing and shorter sheets. The tack isn't as far forward of the bow, but letting out the tack line (until gybing) helps with that. Seems easier to me. Any downsides?
Thanks. Alastair.

 

[JohnVTX]

Forward

 

[SG]

Forward (as John notes) for multiple reasons:

• If it's cut properly (i.e., not a asymmetric chute for a very much smaller rig) it will be too big to get through the foretriangle,
• In some conditions, you should be flying the chute with the tack above the forepeake.

 

[AlastairLC]

Thanks SG. Seems to me your first point could be dealt with if necessary by partial or full socking. I don't understand your second point.- Alastair.

 

[SG]

My foretriangle is say a little less than 650 SF. (i.e, my 100% jib's area). My asymmetrical spinnaker is about 2,000 SF. You might have a somewhat relatively smaller one -- but unless you have a little, odd one (they give names to very small, flat chutes) you shouldn't be trying to put that inside your rig! Even with a sock. You're cruising for a bruisin'.

As for the other point. When you're off the wind, or balancing the rig, you don't want the tack of the sail pulled "flat". You'll want to ease the tack line (and sometimes the halyard, which should be ABOVE the jib halyard exit at the mast head -- for a bunch of reasons). The sail will "Float" a little in front of the boat. On our boat, it might be 4'-6' off the forepeake (pole) at the tack; and, maybe a 2-3' off the masthead sheave. You'll be wrapping the top of the roller furling with a line, etc., etc.

There are bunch of things that cause a spinnaker to not be fun. Among the worst things is wrapping a halyard; next is wrapping the sail around the forestay (especially with a jib on it).

 

[Gunni]

Forward. Blow it out on a gybe and bring it across. Consistently, other wise you risk the wrap SG is talking about.

 

[AlastairLC]

So far the advice has been unanimous for outside setup/gybing. But has anybody actually tried it inside? I have a sailing friend who has done it on three different boats without difficulty. When he tried it outside, the chute wrapped around the forestay! -Alastair.

 

[dhays]

So far the advice has been unanimous for outside setup/gybing. But has anybody actually tried it inside? I have a sailing friend who has done it on three different boats without difficulty. When he tried it outside, the chute wrapped around the forestay! -Alastair.

My guess is that the wrap was operator error. If he was used to rigging the sheet for inside the forestry, did he actually rig the sheets outside of both the both the forestay and sail?

 

[AlastairLC]

He knew what he was doing. He's a certified sailing instructor.
-Alastair.

 

[DaveJ]

Last year I got chastised for saying that I have my Asym rigged on the inside. I have sailed many days with this setup. My issue is the spin halyard exits the mast below the forestay, so I attach the tack of the Asym to a block that is inside of the base of the forestay. I use this for cruising, when I need to gybe I use the sock to snuff the sail, gybe, raise the sock....all done in a minute or so. I have never had an issue, even though I was warned that I was setting myself up for 'a disaster of Biblical proportions'. It may not be the best solution, but without re-rigging, this is my solution.
I would like a retractable bow sprit $$$$$$, re-rig the halyard, do outside gybes........ maybe someday.
Cheers

 

[AlastairLC]

Thanks Dave. Good to hear that somebody's doing it that way!
Another potential problem with the outside method: lazy sheet trapped under the boat. Makes me shiver. -Alastair.

 

[JohnVTX]

You can do either, but one way is correct

 

[Jackdaw]

Last year I got chastised for saying that I have my Asym rigged on the inside. I have sailed many days with this setup. My issue is the spin halyard exits the mast below the forestay, so I attach the tack of the Asym to a block that is inside of the base of the forestay.

Spin halyards NEVER do that. If it exits below the forestay, its not a spin halyard.

 

[Gunni]

Your spinnaker rigging should look like this. Obviously the sail deploys forward the forestay.

 

[SG]

Your spinnaker rigging should look like this. Obviously the sail deploys forward the forestay.

Gunni -- can you do something with the spinnaker halyard on the rollerfurling drum? I'd be concerned that could lead to some grief.

 

[SG]

Gunni's post shows the conventional location of the spinnaker halyard being above and forward to the forestay attachment at the mast/masthead. If you pull that chute through and wrap that head, you're cruising for a bruising.

The luff of the spinnaker should be longer than the forestay -- assuming you have it really cranked down to the deck. You really don't want the luff that tight unless you are trying to point relatively very high in strong winds (for an asymmetric chute).

When I didn't have a sock on a prior boat (our old Pearson 35, I had occasionally flown the chute upside down) -- that didn't make it right just because it could catch some wind. :^)))))

I'd advise you to fly where it's intended, forward of the forestay.

 

[DougM]

it seems like you might have your jib halyard and your spinnaker halyard reversed.
On my boat, although not ideal, the forestay bracket is a die casting with a sheave above and a sheave below the forestay attachment point..
To make things even more interesting, the sheave for the spinnaker topping lift isn't all that distant below the jib halyard exit point in the mast. (Gunni's photo shows his spinnaker halyard exiting the mast at the point where my topping lift would be, although my boat is a fractional rig).

 

[Gunni]

That photo is not my boat (which has an internal spin halyard inside the mast routing through a halyard crane forward the forestay). I pulled up that shot because I believe the OP's O'day is a masthead rig and the photo shows a basic configuration that can be DIY installed to set up a spinnaker halyard.

 

[DaveJ]

Looking at the picture supplied by Gunni, I see a halyard exiting below the forestay (same as mine but mine is a little higher up the mast) and it goes up to a block that is attached to a bracket that looks like it was added to the top of the mast. I do not have this bracket. Is this an item that can be easily purchased and installed? The halyard in the picture looks like it rubs on the furler 'swivel', is this normal?....doesn't look right to me.
I agree with posters above that doing an inside gybe with this setup would not work, but doing an outside gybe when the halyard exit is below the forestay would not work either.
And if mine is not a halyard, then what is it??

Cheers

 

[Joe]

I found this masthead crane at www.catalinadirect.com It's for a Catalina 30. Didn't see anything for a 310... but a call to catalina direct may solve the problem. At the very least you can have one made to your boat's specs based on this design. Another good resource if the Catalina Yachts factory You'll have to call their parts department (the switchboard number is at the bottom of the webpage) but you will talk to an expert on your boat when you get through.

.
The crane in Gunni's picture is pretty heavy duty, maybe to much for your boat. So if you have to have one made, use the C30 one above for design inspiration,

BTW what you are looking at in Gunni's picture is a pretty typical set up. The jib halyard that connects to the furler's swivel goes all the way to the top and back down the mast internally. The metal clip looking thing is a "halyard restrainer", it keeps the top part of the swivel from.... uh..... swiveling.... so the halyard doesn't wrap around the fore stay.
The spinnaker halyard is not in any kind of danger... it's rigged externally and can be secured back against the mast or on the lifeline or wrapped around the spreader to keep it from slapping.... etc...