Generators

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Jan 1, 2006
7,615
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
OK - there is a bit of cabin fever going on here.
But, my wife told me last PM she wants me to look into getting a generator for the boat :dance:. A gas generator :eek:. In order not to ignite another dust up about hair dryers - just hear her reasoning. She wants to be able to stay on a mooring or anchor longer on cruises. As it is, we need a dock to recharge about every third night. This is expensive and we prefer moorings and anchoring to the marinas. So we don't want to run AC. We do want to play the CD player - OK its mostly ipod, the satellite radio, computer off/on, the anchor alarm which means all the instruments, the anchor light, and some cabin lighting, the coffee pot and recharging the phones, vhf, etc. not to mention the water pressure. We usually use a oil lantern in the cockpit in the evening and citronella candles. We don't light the boat up like a canival.
So what would it take? I promise to never run it in quiet times.
What about a wind generator? I guess they are expensive but compared to an installed diesel generator they must be a bargain.
Flame suit on.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
I was advised to get a Honda 2000 since I can set the power share on the Link to 20 amps and thus get about 70 amps charge current vs a lot less with a 1000. So, what we do is to run about 60 watts solar from three flexible panels we put on the bimini (no longer made though) and use the Honda an hour a day plus 15 minutes for hot water. If you don't have solar, it's about another 15-30 minutes on the generator. We run it mid-day when people are out and about. Anyhow, with that combination, we stay two or three weeks off the grid on our island mooring. Also, my refrig & freezer are probably a lot less efficient than yours. I would not recommend any of the knock offs as tempting as half the price is. I know two full-timers on the island who did and wound up getting Hondas later anyway. Most good mooring or anchorage areas do not produce enough wind consistently to generate enough charge to be worth while. Solar is great but it takes a chunk of silicon to produce meaningful charge also (for what you are describing).

Understand this is just my own take on the issue and my own experience Others will no doubt have their own take. Good luck!

PS: your wife's rationale is to be commended!

PPS to add: our mooring anchorage is atypical and very windy and is where most of the island full-timers moor or anchor. So, wind generators are typical, but all have solar as well. The noise is annoying from close wind generators however (at least from the three-blade. The five blade are much quieter.).
 
Last edited:
Jan 1, 2006
7,615
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
My apologies to the group for not including the biggest power drain we use - the refrig/ freezer! What was I thinking! Anyway according to my energy budget I know we use about 100 ah's a day.
An interesting thread would be marinas vs. anchoring/mooring - pro's and con's. Both are better than a Motel 6 but ... we have our own opinions.
 

njsail

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Feb 18, 2010
216
Bavaria Ocean 40 CC Forked River
Andrew,

We have a Honda 2000i that came with the boat. We only really used it for running the A/C during a brutal summer. The generator works great, is easy to service and is very reliable. I just fired it up yesterday and purrs like a kitten. We have a 260 watt solar array mounted on the davits off the back deck so that handles all the load for the most part for our particular use except A/C. The fridge seems to be pretty efficient and we don't need to plug in to keep it cold. Back to the generator. The challenge for us and the Honda 2000i is we store it in the cockpit and it's a little heavy to lug on the back deck, hook it up and restore it when we're done for as often as we move. It would be much more palatable if we spend many days in the same place. But that's just my opinion...the generator is awesome. It's a very quite unit but if you're in a quiet anchorage it sounds loud. The 2000i only powers one of our 2 A/C units but it's enough to cool the boat down on the hot, buggy, and humid NJ summers.

Something to think of is adding insulation to your fridge/freezer or even re-insulating it. I know a few people who have done that and have increased the efficiency of their units dramatically. Even adding foil bubble wrap available at home depot/lowes on the walls, top and bottom can help a lot. Then you're power draw would be less.

The price of SMD soft white led cabin lights is now around $9 / light fixture. I installed a few over the summer when the prices were about $14 but with the $9 price tag I just purchased replacements for the rest of the boat. I found it amazing how little the LED's draw and still produce the same amount of light. Make sure to get a soft white light. The others are really harsh on the eyes (my opinion). I also installed 4 solar garden lights in the cockpit. They light things up so we don't trip when arriving or departing. No draw on those. One other thing that you might want to consider along with the generator is battery bank size. Would it benefit your particular cruising style to have one (or two) additional batteries. These are all just food for thought. I'm still cautious about how much juice we use during the evening. Good luck - the Honda 2000i has my vote. Also remember since it's a gasoline engine it needs to be stored outside on deck (comes with a nice cover). The gas cover seals really good and there is no smell but I wouldn't chance leaving it down below.
 

Tim R.

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May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
Our 2 kyocera 130w solar panels run our refrigerator/freezer. Yes, we have ice cream on the hook. We even have a few extra amps to charge during the day. Even in sept we were not using the charger.

We have a 5kv generator that runs off the yanmar as a backup for multiple cloudy days.
 
Jun 2, 2004
5,802
Hunter 37-cutter, '79 41 23' 30"N 82 33' 20"W--------Huron, OH
My Honda 2000 lived on the port side deck between Erie and Tampa. Easily secured to the toerail I moved it to the anchor locker when in use. I have shorepower on both ends and no swim platform so the bow is the easiest place. Up there you can hardly hear it running. But as pointed out it can be heard by boats close by. And wherever you run it make sure no exhaust gets into the boat. I sewed a sunbrella cover for the gen's trip south. It only goes below, under the nav table, when the tank is empty.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,711
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
With a small investment in LED's, some energy efficiency improvements and some solar or wind, you could easily do all this without a generator. The Honda's are nice, I have one but don't use it on-board, and they can drive about a 50-55 amp charger, with its 13.3 amp continuous rating, without shutting down on inverter over-temp. As an example an Iota DLS55 charger draws a max current of about 12 amps from the AC side. This leaves you with some room for in-rush and another 1.3 amps but going to the 75 amp puts you at 17 amps AC current and will likely shut down the Honda if the batts were deeply discharged.. With a 100+/- amp alt you can actually re-charge faster with the engine than you can with the EU2000 but it means running the ships engine. I can tell you that running just two Makita buffers shut my EU2000I down on over-temp in a rather short amount of time. The continuous rating is not 2000 watts it's 1600 watts but if you get close to that number it may still shut down even if you were not exactly at 1600. A decent first investment is a good battery monitor that measures your consumption so you know more precisely what you are using rather than guessing at it, though you can estimate somewhat closely. The Victron BMV600 can be bought for about $160.00 from Jamestown Distributors and is very easy to install.

Cycling between 50 & 80% bank capacity four 6V batts would give you roughly 130 usable Ah's per day. This bank can accept about 113 amps in bulk charge so cycling between 50% & 80% soc could put your daily use back into the bank, to 80%, fairly shortly. With some good insulation, supplemental ice blocks, some LED's and a solar panel you'd be right in the range to suffice without a gas generator.
 

zeehag

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Mar 26, 2009
3,198
1976 formosa 41 yankee clipper santa barbara. ca.(not there)
i found the alleged noise of the air-x wind generator to be more inside other folks's heads that in reality. is not noisy. is actually enjoyable. sounds like freedom. yes i lived with that sound for a long time while cruising gulf of mexico. it worked great. once we added it to the solar panels for charging batteries , we always had electricity.
honda 2000 works well,also. would love to add an air-X to this boat.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,186
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
You Are Right...

i found the alleged noise of the air-x wind generator to be more inside other folks's heads that in reality.
...it sure is inside my head! How do I get it out :cussing:
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Suggest approaching project in increments....

First off, our cruising is a mix of both urban and remote waters. My preference is more for the remote areas but the Admiral likes the urban ones so I try to provide a combination.

For urban waters our reciprocal gets us into almost all marinas so that's a big help. For these, shorepower is usually available although sometimes it can be a bit of a "profit center."

For generation, when motoring, the engine runs a 70A Balmar alternator which takes care of everything. We've also had an EU1000i generator which puts out 900W continuous and currently we have an EU2000i which is rated for 1600W continuous. The step up to the 2000 had more to do with power outages at home than the boat. Note: the output of the 2000 is not 2x that of the 1000.

There are a lot of downsides to lugging a generator around:
1. It takes of space.
2. The salt air is hard on the metals and will cause them to rust or oxidize. Aluminum oxidizes. Not to mention the electrical and electronics - these units are not marinized. The impact of exposure to the elements will initially deterioriate the value of the units and in the long run will eventually cause operational problems.
3. Some talk about the noise from a wind generator. A gas generator is worse.
4. These things run on gas. Gas has to be carried somewhere and that's a problem. The outboard is bad enough but adding the gas generator it just makes matters worse. Cruising rural and remote areas and anchoring out becomes a problem due to the lack of availability of refueling.
5. These generators have electronic regulators that will wear out with continuous heavy loads, hence, future maintenance problems.
6. Stinky exhaust and gas smell. If you're on the hook the exhaust will, with the station wagon effect, find it's way into the cabin no matter what you do. You can minimize it (open dodger windows, open forward hatch, etc.) but not eliminate it.

There are a couple good parts, though, they save wear-and-tear on the boat's engine, and, their output is significantly higher than the average usage. A generator could be handy for something like a hair dryer or microwave, however, a good inverter/charger with heavy duty wiring would obviate the need for one.

Solar panels:
1. The up-front cost of our two 130W Kyocera panels was about that of the 2000i.
2. The solar panels standardly have something like a 20 or 25 year guarantee (much longer than a generator) which is something to consider. 3. They are absolutely quiet.
4. Depending on where and how you mount them they can be in the way. Ours are on the pushpit sides and can be angled up. One can also be in the way when docking but by holding the stern line out of the way this problem is eliminated.
5. Solar output is a function of daylight and is seriously diminished under heavy overcast.
6. Solar is excellent for topping off the batteries which the generator or engine powered alternator is not.
7. No lugging or buying of gasoline is required.
8. Possibly could be a problem being deployed (if mounted like ours) in a marina.

Wind generator:
We have one of these too. For starters, though, I'd suggest waiting on this option for now until one sees how things work out.

Since the refrigerator/ice box is the biggest energy user (unless wife is really into hair drying), work on insulation. This will be work but the biggest bang for the buck. If foam is used, use closed-cell and be very careful about expansion around cabinetry. There are other insulation methods available that can insulate better, R-value, if there is access.

Feel the counter top over the refrigerator/ice box. If it feels cold there is one very easy trick and that is to put a blanket or towel on the counter when the galley isn't being used. And certainly, plug the drain hole.

With the solar panels one should consider using the Blue Sky "Solar Boost" 2000E. This will optimize the solar output when it is cloudy or overcast. With our two panels we're normally able to keep up with all the ships power demands.

If on the hook under adverse weather for solar panels, use the ships high output alternator for the bulk charging and then switch to solar for the rest. If there isn't much solar power available, run the engine for when peak loads like the hair dryer or microwave is used.

Hot water heater: This can be a problem, or not. On a sunny day we have enough surplus solar power that we can dump the excess into the water heater via the inverter. A better solution for cruisers, however, is a hot water heater element that can run off the solar power output and bypass the inverter. Water heater can also be insulated.

If after all this you still need more electrical power then wind can be considered but I'd save this for later.
 

Attachments

Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
And I'm sure THE Boat Babe would recommend.....

.... the Solar Stick.

Doesn't have some of the issues my setup has, AND,..... you can mount a wind generator on top!

Tell your wife the Solar Stick is "Woman approved"!

Send her the "Off topic" link for the pictures of it and either she'd support your buying it or..... then again, .....
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,593
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
Zeehag...

In our experience, your music is usually noise to us as ours probably is to you.

The worst case is the generator on the bow in a mooring field. It feels like it's right in our cockpit if we are the the next boat to windward. Downwind, we get gas exhaust to enhance our enjoyment of life "away from it all."

Asking if/when running the generator would be OK is a friendly solution that would go a long way, but we are still waiting for someone to try it. Mostly. it's fire up the generator, and disappear below. Some think it's fine to fire up the generator, then go ashore for the afternoon!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Sailboat electrical system design

Hey shemandr
Welcome to the wonderful world of sailboat electrical design trade off. A couple of things to consider:
1) The boat is a system; you can’t just go adding electrical production and get a working solution that you can afford.
2) You have to consider production, use, and storage together.
3) Some solutions are as easy as changing when you use the power vs buying more production. I saw a pretty significant improvement in my battery average state of charge (my measure of how well I'm doing) by just running the freezer during the day when the solar panels where putting out. No need to store the power (and suffer storage inefficiencies of ~20%)
4) The use of another fuel for cooking can GREATLY reduce your electrical energy budget. (Unfortunately they don't have a propane powered hair dryer yet.)
5) The cheapest way to reduce your cost is to reduce your energy use. LED lighting, adding insulation to the reefer, making coffee with gas vs electric all greatly aid in balancing your energy budget.
6) Storage of electricity in lead acid batteries is not the preferred means for a variety of reasons. It is better to use electricity as you produce it. So running the windlass while the motor is on and the alternator can supply the current is much better than trying to charge a 90% charged battery to accomplish the same thing.
7) Massive alternator output is almost never the answer when using lead acid batteries. With Ni-cad you fair much better as they will take a fast charge and don't go through the acceptance and float regimes that lead acid do. The alternator output will only be max for a few minutes then will fall off dramatically (unless your batts are DEEPLY discharged which is to be avoided) due to the lead acid batts entering acceptance/float stage of charging. At that point your alternator is only putting out a small percentage of amps (<<<10% of your bank AH rating or like much less than 40 amps for a 400 AH bank) and you can do that with your stock alternator. Basically it is cheaper to just run the engine for 5 more minutes during the bulk charge than to buy a huge alternator and save yourself the 5 minutes.
8) Massive storage is usually a good idea, it reduces the total discharge level for a given production-use regime, gives you additional time between recharges, and can accept a large charge rate overall.
9) Production is usually the last thing you try to fix the problem as it is the most expensive.

I went through this several years ago and built an excel spread sheet that crunches all the numbers. It incorporates when you use the load and when you produce the electricity, accounts for bulk-absorption-float charge rates (it was shocking to discover that a 1000 amp alternator is no more effective than a 53 amp on for “normal” sized battery banks. Lets you play with a veriety of production means both alone and together, change the battery bank size…. Lots of stuff. Email me for a copy (free) William-roosa@us.army.mil
 

jotjo

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Nov 8, 2005
5
- - Knoxville, Tenn.
You gotta be comfortable ...

OK - there is a bit of cabin fever going on here.
But, my wife told me last PM she wants me to look into getting a generator for the boat :dance:. A gas generator :eek:. In order not to ignite another dust up about hair dryers - just hear her reasoning. She wants to be able to stay on a mooring or anchor longer on cruises. As it is, we need a dock to recharge about every third night. This is expensive and we prefer moorings and anchoring to the marinas. So we don't want to run AC. We do want to play the CD player - OK its mostly ipod, the satellite radio, computer off/on, the anchor alarm which means all the instruments, the anchor light, and some cabin lighting, the coffee pot and recharging the phones, vhf, etc. not to mention the water pressure. We usually use a oil lantern in the cockpit in the evening and citronella candles. We don't light the boat up like a canival.
So what would it take? I promise to never run it in quiet times.
What about a wind generator? I guess they are expensive but compared to an installed diesel generator they must be a bargain.
Flame suit on.
Well, it's great to here someone wants to have the comforts of home and enjoy sailing at the same time!! I charge my batteries with my engine, however, I do use a generator to run other things .... A/C, microwave, etc. I have 2 Honda 2000's that I wire together to get the power needed to run my air. They are stored in the lazerette and are placed on my swim platform when in use. They are quiet, efficient (only use 1 gallon each for 8+ hours), and a lot cheaper than installing a deisel generator. A bit cumbersome at times, but not used a lot. My sailing buddy uses one on his Catalina 30 and it works great. Hpe this helps!
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
A cheaper solar alternative

Playing around on the internet and I found 3.25"x6" solar polycrystaline panels (1.5 volts) at about a $1.00 a watt. Yes Martha, $200 for a 200 watt panel. Yes, you have to assemble them yourself but given the difficutly of mounting a standard size panel I figured I could find a way to "shrink wrap" the individual cells, connect them with flexable wire and "sew" them to my bimini top.
A kit is at:
http://www.gogreensolar.com/product...dftrk=gdfV21109_a_7c323_a_7c2152_a_7c24229042

there are other sizes and options for just the cells without the wiring. I don't think the wire would be of much use in this application as it is going to get bent and it was never intended to suffer that inside a panel.

FWIW
 
Jul 8, 2004
155
Hunter 33.5 Portsmouth VA
Lots of good info presented already. IMHO it takes a combination of technologies to provide the power for the devices cruisers now consider essential.

We started out with bigger batteries, switched to golf cart batteries for the house, installed a quality shore powered charger, added a Honda 2000 and finally added solar panels. In addition we switched to LED lighting and added more insulation to the fridge.

As stated by many, start with ways to minimize consumption...LED lighting, insulation for the fridge. Then start working on the supply side. Install a larger house bank (if needed) and add the means to replace the power consumed each day.

As newbies we got lots of this advice from seasoned cruisers:
1. Honda (No substitutes, nothing quieter when running)
2. Solar
3. Wind (We're going to skip this one as we seem to have a working system)

Your experience may vary!
 

NYSail

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Jan 6, 2006
3,145
Beneteau 423 Mt. Sinai, NY
We love our Honda 2000i. Spend extended times off the dock. Use the generator ever 3 days for about 2 hours to fully recharge. I keep my ice box cold and all is good.... We bring the generator on deck and have added an additional foam pad so less vibration transfers to the boat. The unit is very quiet, however make sure you don't get exhaust in the boat. We close the windows on the side the generator is on.... small price to pay.
 
Nov 12, 2009
49
Catalina 22, El Toro Folsom
When doing an energy audit, you should consider getting a DC clamp-on ammeter. It's especially usefull for devices having variable charging or load characteristics (motors, wind turbines, solar cells). It won't hurt to verify nameplate ratings either. I have used an older version of this one and it has worked well for 5 years now: Sears Craftsman Model# 82369
 
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