One of our friends posted a reply to a thread and he raised the safety issue of using propane vs gasoline to fuel a portable generator. Not wanting to highjack the thread and take it into a different direction I opened a new one. I think Propane is safer than gasoline for powering a portable generator, not of because the nature of the fuels, but because a proper propane installation with a vented locker for the tank, a pressure switch and remote contolled solenoid offers many safeguards as compared to the storage of a gas can and the transfering of fuel by pouring into the generator's tank. But other than safety I think propane offers some advantages; cleaner burning withe less exaust fumes, larger tank capacity for longer or uninterrupted running, no harmful deposits due to aging of fuel and the ability to disconnect the genset and store it in the cabin if desired empty of fuel. I quickly googled "propane generators" and found out the Yamaha offers the EF2000IS a tri-fuel generator. It runs on gasoline, propane or natural gas. Weighs 44 lbs dry, the output is 2000/1600 Watts and the MSRP is $1,099. For those of us who already own a Honda eu2000i there is a conversion kit from gasoline to propane which retails for around $170. Obviously for those that do not have a propane installation or utilize their generators off the boat this may not be be an atractive option. I just find that if i can have the generator run free from gasoline maladies and to have an uninterrupted run time for as many hours as I may decide this could be a big deal. The added safety is primary but would come as icing on the cake. I have not conducted any study in the 15 minutes I have dedicated to the subject so I'm sure some of you will chime in to correct any missinformation or to provide additional details. Please help me determine if this conversion is worthwhile pursuing.
Gasoline vs. Propane.
- Thread starter Benny17441
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I'm not a big fan of either item on a boat but I agree a properly installed propane locker is probably safer of the two. I don't care for the fact that propane can sit in the bilge indefinitely. I have CNG on my boat but it's very hard to find in a cruising situation. I would think propane would give you less fuel related issues too (ethanol gumming things up, water etc). If I were asked to chose I'd really check my propane locker well and install sniffers to detect any problems. SC
Found out there is one conversion which will allow either the use of gasoline or propane and it involves switching out your carburator for a converted one. This one retails for around $240.
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I do see sales of the Honda and Yamaha for TRI_FUEL BUT there both after market suppliers and do not seem to have the OEM warranty
There not that open about the HP loss on propane and make some claims about run time that i would have to check on
I have to say are propane forktrucks are rock solid BUT the 50HP natural gas water chiller is a PITA
There not that open about the HP loss on propane and make some claims about run time that i would have to check on
I have to say are propane forktrucks are rock solid BUT the 50HP natural gas water chiller is a PITA
I've converted a 7kw gasoline generator to natural gas at home and would convert my outboard to propane if it were 4cycle. The fuel doesn't age and needs no special attention other than standard safety precautions that would be the same for gasoline. Natural gas here is cheap and remained on even in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina where I had no electricity for over 3 weeks. My generator runs extremely clean on NG. Some say there is a drop-off in power when switching fuel, but that is assuming the gasoline is being burned at max efficiency. Propane and NG are naturally vaporized and are delivered more efficiently into the combustion chamber. Some engines will have more of a drop-off, if any, than others. NG is about 1/5 the cost of the same BTU in gasoline here and a slight drop in power is worth it. Propane is about the same price or slightly lower here.
Search "ask all sailors" for "Propane generator".. You'll find lots of info:
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=849227&highlight=Propane generator
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=849227&highlight=Propane generator
Good observation Tommays I indeed see no reference from the manufacturers for these products so they must be aftermarket retrofits. My Honda eu2000i is out of warranty already so I will continue to see if that conversion is warranted. The power claims do take on a new light as they are made by marketers and not the factory. Ah Forrest did you notice any drop off in power when you converted? These generators produce low power to begin with so any substantial loss of power would trump the benefits sought after.
I have used small gen set
I have used a small gen set in the past. Gasoline. I just never put any gasoline anywhere. If I put the gen set inside the boat, it had been run dry of fuel, ( not a bad idea anyway) and the gasoline was stored on deck. I don't like the idea of gas or propane either one where fumes could possibly accumulate, but with a proper locker, would prefer propane.
I have used a small gen set in the past. Gasoline. I just never put any gasoline anywhere. If I put the gen set inside the boat, it had been run dry of fuel, ( not a bad idea anyway) and the gasoline was stored on deck. I don't like the idea of gas or propane either one where fumes could possibly accumulate, but with a proper locker, would prefer propane.
Kloudie I checked the archives as suggested, thanks. Let me list what I have learned so far:
1) A multy fuel conversion requires a reworked carburator and a vacum controlled flow regulator. The kit is aftermarket and sells for around $240. They keep $100 in deposit untill you return the your carburatore core.
2) Propane fuel has 10% less energy than gasoline. Could not get info on natural gas but would imagine somewhat less than propane.
3) There is a loss of RPM under maximum load and hence power produced of around 10%. The output drops to 1440/1800 Watts. Not good for the limited power of a small generator.
4) Fuel usage is anticipated to be between 5-10% higher for propane as the motor needs more throtle to maintain similar RPM. I get about 6 hrs running time from a gallon of gas. Would anticipate 5 1/2 hours on Propane. The advantage is that the gasoline tank needs to be refueled and the propane tank holds a number of gallons providing enough convenient uninterrupted running time.
5) Once the air to fuel ratio is properly adjusted Propane burns cleaner. It also does not gum up and create deposits. Engine maintenance is simplified.
6) Could not find reliability information after continuous use but just by looking at propane powered fork lifts would say the engine will not notice much difference and the exaust valve may be cleaner.
7) The price of propane per gallon varies around the country but can average around $4.60 a gallon. I currently feed my generator premium gasoline so the difference in price would not be an issue. Ethanol free gas is higher. Bear in mind a $0.46 surcharge for the loss of 10% of energy.
I like the convinience of run time and fuel storage but do not like the loss of power. Reliability is unproven and I'm concerned about the quality and safety of the vacum flow regulator. Will continue. Some of the above information has not been independently confirmed such as the energy value of Propane and hence power output reduction values.
1) A multy fuel conversion requires a reworked carburator and a vacum controlled flow regulator. The kit is aftermarket and sells for around $240. They keep $100 in deposit untill you return the your carburatore core.
2) Propane fuel has 10% less energy than gasoline. Could not get info on natural gas but would imagine somewhat less than propane.
3) There is a loss of RPM under maximum load and hence power produced of around 10%. The output drops to 1440/1800 Watts. Not good for the limited power of a small generator.
4) Fuel usage is anticipated to be between 5-10% higher for propane as the motor needs more throtle to maintain similar RPM. I get about 6 hrs running time from a gallon of gas. Would anticipate 5 1/2 hours on Propane. The advantage is that the gasoline tank needs to be refueled and the propane tank holds a number of gallons providing enough convenient uninterrupted running time.
5) Once the air to fuel ratio is properly adjusted Propane burns cleaner. It also does not gum up and create deposits. Engine maintenance is simplified.
6) Could not find reliability information after continuous use but just by looking at propane powered fork lifts would say the engine will not notice much difference and the exaust valve may be cleaner.
7) The price of propane per gallon varies around the country but can average around $4.60 a gallon. I currently feed my generator premium gasoline so the difference in price would not be an issue. Ethanol free gas is higher. Bear in mind a $0.46 surcharge for the loss of 10% of energy.
I like the convinience of run time and fuel storage but do not like the loss of power. Reliability is unproven and I'm concerned about the quality and safety of the vacum flow regulator. Will continue. Some of the above information has not been independently confirmed such as the energy value of Propane and hence power output reduction values.
Benny, sounds like ya have all the stuff to make a decision.. There are gasoline extended run kits available which allow the Honda to siphon fuel from another tank. Here is a DIY note about how it works.. I am not sure I'd use this guy's exact method of modifying the fuel cap, but I know that the siphon cap is available. Having the gasoline in an outboard tank is pretty slick since they can have gauges in 'em and have the quick-connects.
EDIT:
Here is a cap that needs only a couple of fittings and some hose to get it to an outboard tank .. http://www.amazon.com/HONDA-Eu2000i-GENERATOR-EXTENDED-FUEL/dp/B004BJ5YKM
EDIT:
Here is a cap that needs only a couple of fittings and some hose to get it to an outboard tank .. http://www.amazon.com/HONDA-Eu2000i-GENERATOR-EXTENDED-FUEL/dp/B004BJ5YKM
Ethanol fuels
The 10% is for E10. If you end up having to use E15 it is much worse. The owners manual for some new cars says you can expect a 30% loss in fuel economy. I would expect that the power loss would be similar. And I think E15 is coming.
The 10% is for E10. If you end up having to use E15 it is much worse. The owners manual for some new cars says you can expect a 30% loss in fuel economy. I would expect that the power loss would be similar. And I think E15 is coming.
agree with Benny.
friends had 2 Honda 6500 units, one gas, the other propane. (back in 1993 pre-E10 (hurricane Andrew))
propane was cleaner, but ran shorter and didn't output as much energy.
but the standby capability was superior for propane.
in a home stand-by situation, the gas might have the advantage, since after 5 days, gas stations start to open. where propane will always have a long line, and forget about getting a truck to fill your 100 gal tank, unless you have connections. (get in line).
thus the reason my friends had 2... on for stand by, the other for long term use.
-my only question w/ propane is when you disconnect the portable unit, where does the fuel go that was in the line? or its only run on the sugar scoop transom.
friends had 2 Honda 6500 units, one gas, the other propane. (back in 1993 pre-E10 (hurricane Andrew))
propane was cleaner, but ran shorter and didn't output as much energy.
but the standby capability was superior for propane.
in a home stand-by situation, the gas might have the advantage, since after 5 days, gas stations start to open. where propane will always have a long line, and forget about getting a truck to fill your 100 gal tank, unless you have connections. (get in line).
thus the reason my friends had 2... on for stand by, the other for long term use.
-my only question w/ propane is when you disconnect the portable unit, where does the fuel go that was in the line? or its only run on the sugar scoop transom.
If your gasoline engine is designed to run on regular gas you will not get any benefit from using premium gas unless that's the only way you can avoid using ethanol contaminated gas. The octane rating of the fuel needs to match or slightly exceed the octane rating of the engine. Higher octane just means the gas-air mixture can be compressed more before it detonates without a spark. It is just a characteristic not a quality rating.
My gen is a 7kw Generac. I bought it and did the conversion imediately. My kit is similar to the first image you posted and doesn't permanently modify or replace the carb. My unit will still run on gasoline. Regarding the power drop-off, I haven't done any deatiled testing but plan to before next hurricane season. I do load test it. I back feed my main panel and kill large breakers like my central AC, electric oven, and hot tub ckts. I leave all others on and during the the test I ran 9 ceiling fans and attached lights on medium speed, 2 refrigerators, one freezer, one television, one desktop PC, one small window unit AC, all of the things that are usually just plugged in and on like alarm clocks, dsl modem, router, switch, sat receivers, etc. I monitored the voltage and 60hz frequency. To test the limits, with all of the stuff listed above, I heated a cup of water in the microwave, The voltage and freq stabilized after a couple of seconds. So I turned on the drip coffee pot and the voltage stabilized, but the frequency didn't return to 60hz. That was much more than I would run at one time.
I think, if there is a significant drop off, it's worth buying a slightly larger generator and going with the conversion. I am very, very happy with mine and have been for over two years.
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