Gas Tank...

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Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Jun 5, 2004
997
Macgregor 26D Boise
very very nice installation. looks very seaworthy. Two comments (you are probably all over this): label the external fuel port and where will you put the quantity indicator? wired hot with a momentary push switch? Powered only when engine is running? how many gallons? how much is the filler hose/foot? looks like the good stuff
 
Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
You know I carry a coolant recovery bottle and a length of hose with a filter and a fitting that fits the outboard. I can hang this from the pushpit and gravity feed the outboard if the pump goes bad. It's better than sitting there pumping the bulb. It takes up very little space and I think it holds about 2 quarts.
Just a thought.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
very very nice installation. looks very seaworthy. Two comments (you are probably all over this): label the external fuel port and where will you put the quantity indicator? wired hot with a momentary push switch? Powered only when engine is running? how many gallons? how much is the filler hose/foot? looks like the good stuff
The gas fill is marked (engraved into the fitting). I don't plan on using a gauge at this point. Since it is a straight shot into the tank I can use the siphon hose I have to see how full it is and once above the side board I should see it in the tank from the outside. The tank is 19 gallons, but it won't normally be carrying anywhere near that in it. The hose was/is the good stuff and was $9.00 a foot from Defender.

You know I carry a coolant recovery bottle and a length of hose with a filter and a fitting that fits the outboard. I can hang this from the pushpit and gravity feed the outboard if the pump goes bad. It's better than sitting there pumping the bulb. It takes up very little space and I think it holds about 2 quarts.
Just a thought.
Good idea, but hopefully the new outboard will be ok for a while. Your idea did give me the idea that if that did happen I could hook the line to the tank on the gen-set above the outboard, thanks.

Nice work but Holy cow, you added almost 200 lbs to the stern when full :eek:
More like about 120 lbs. since gas weighs less than water. We don't have to fill it, but we have that option. Most of the time it will have around 5 gallons in it. Also I need some weight back there to offset the 40 gallons (320 lb.) of water up in the bow ;).

We hope to maybe do the Erie Canal next summer and motoring over 300 miles will be a lot better with this than carrying a bunch of fuel cans.

I considered 14-16 gallon tanks, but didn't like the shape of them and felt they actually impacted space in the lazarette more than this tank that hugs the bulkhead and goes over into the hard to get area on the port side.

Lastly our boat is more about exploring and taking extended trips in remote areas and the sailing performance comes in behind those priorities. We realize what we have done to the boat isn't for everyone, but you would be surprised at the number of e-mails we get from others that look at a sailboat as an escape vehicle and are less concerned with the 'pure' sailing aspect :).

Thanks for the input guys,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
Apr 30, 2006
610
Macgregor 26s Kemah, TX
Yet another "Wow!" when I see one of your mods.
Do you have an estimate of how much the boat will draw when it's fully ready for an extended cruise?
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Nice shape! still its less than 24hrs running time... but big enough, I figure...

what di you do about the fuel pickup?

did you run it all the way to the bottom, or a little off the bottom. -most marine tanks don't pickup the bottom .5-1.0 inch but you do have the separator so I guess you can run to the bottom.

still I'd figure you need at least 1 gallon to have steady supply.,,,
 
Oct 8, 2008
362
MacGregor/Venture 25 Winthrop Harbor, IL Drummond Island,MI
Nice install. When the tank is full, what kind of heel angle do you need to have fuel come out of the vent line? I did something similiar, and ended up with a long "S" shaped vent line running from gunnel to gunnel. Besides the fire hazard, spilled fuel comes with a HUGE fine....:(
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
Nice install. When the tank is full, what kind of heel angle do you need to have fuel come out of the vent line? I did something similiar, and ended up with a long "S" shaped vent line running from gunnel to gunnel. Besides the fire hazard, spilled fuel comes with a HUGE fine....:(

I agree, that vent line would benefit from a loop in the line...
the fill will need to be water tight... you could get some splash back.
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Yet another "Wow!" when I see one of your mods.
Do you have an estimate of how much the boat will draw when it's fully ready for an extended cruise?
Ok here is a picture when we were out on Lake Powell...



... We were loaded for a 30 day trip, turned into 18 days. There is a small wave going by the boat in the picture, but you can see about where it sits. We had quite a bit of gas in the laz (not good) and the main tank in the cockpit (I think about 10-12 gallons total). We had about 30 gallons of water or a little more and food and clothing and tools and lots of other stuff.

Since then I've added the ...



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-33.html

....solar panels, which has added about 40-50 lbs. to the boat and we can now carry if we want 19 gallons of gas, so that is about another 50# over what was going on in the picture. I've upped the water capacity to about 40 gallons, so say another 80 lbs. there. The frig over the two coolers and ice in them adds about another maybe 20 lbs. So we might be 150 lb. more than in the picture if we tried to provision for 30 days again. Forgot we added the Manson Supreme 25 lb. anchor, but won't take the Danforth, so another 15 lb. there also. Ok throw in some stuff I forgot and let's say we are 250 lb. more than in the picture.

I looked at the Mac today and figured that it had at least a four foot average width at the waterline and closer to 5 foot. If the boat sat an inch lower in the water using the 4 foot width it would displace 500 lb. of water, so we would sit 1/2 and inch lower in the water than the picture. If you use a 5 foot average width then one inch lower would displace almost 700# of water, so now we wouldn't even be 1/2 inch lower in the water.

I pulled the trailer out from under the boat today and will sand the bottom tomorrow for barrier paint and bottom paint. I'm going to move all of that 1 inch above the waterline stripe in the picture or whatever it is called and then later will put a new stripe one inch above that. I want to make sure that the bottom paint is above the waterline as I've read that that is were most of the growth happens.

We really aren't concerned if we sit 1 1/2 to 2 inches lower in the water since we don't/won't race and I think the lighter boat there only helps accelerate on a new tack or maybe in real light wind. There are boats a lot heavier than ours that are the same length and have lower PHRF ratings.

Nice shape! still its less than 24hrs running time... but big enough, I figure...

what di you do about the fuel pickup?........still I'd figure you need at least 1 gallon to have steady supply.,,,
Hey Bill we can't stay up 24 hours, so that isn't a problem ;). I agree that I'd want to try and not get under 1 gallon in the tank. The pickup is in their stock location that looks to be just off the bottom, but it is hard to tell.

Nice install. When the tank is full, what kind of heel angle do you need to have fuel come out of the vent line? I did something similiar, and ended up with a long "S" shaped vent line running from gunnel to gunnel. Besides the fire hazard, spilled fuel comes with a HUGE fine....:(
OK I went and checked. The vent is very high in the outboard well and it is 18 inches down to the tank and the tank is 20 inches long off one side of the vent and 26 off the other. It looks like I'd have to heel 35 degrees to port before I'd have a problem and over 40 degrees to starboard to have one and then only if the tank was filled to the very, very top. Under full to the top the the heel angle goes up. If we are heeled over 35 degrees and it isn't a knock-down situation Ruth will be leaving me :cry:. I'm going to try it where and how it is before I do anything. Having a loop or low spot in the vent line would stop it from working if any fluid collected there (why your sink doesn't stink).

Nice installation, Sum. Did you seal off the laz from the cabin? -Paul
Nope and don't intend to unless I get stopped and the Coast Guard has a problem with it. I've read and re-read the regs on it and came to the conclusion that if you have a tank that is vented outside of the compartment it is in that you don't need positive ventilation (blower). Now one thing that isn't so clear is the part that if you have something in the compartment that can generate a spark (inboard engine, switch, etc.) then positive ventilation is required. Now since the laz is connected to the cabin and way forward of the laz in the cabin you have spark producing items then positive ventilation is required. I have positive ventilation, so feel I'm covered. I'd be interested in reading something that says I'm not if you have it.

I do know that many, many Mac owners have gas cans in the laz and a lot of them have their outboard tank down there. These all vent into the laz and would fail their tests maybe. We had containers down there before, but kept the outboard tank where you have to have the vent open up in the cockpit. I think we are much safer now with this install.

One last thing is that the bottom of the laz is sealed from the cabin and fumes have to build up to the hole for the cockpit drain before they could spill into the cabin. That height is well above the intake for the blower ventilation.

Thanks for the input guys,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
Apr 30, 2006
610
Macgregor 26s Kemah, TX
If that's all the extra draft you have with everything you need for an extended cruise, that sounds like a great tradeoff.
 
Oct 8, 2008
362
MacGregor/Venture 25 Winthrop Harbor, IL Drummond Island,MI
It looks like I'd have to heel 35 degrees to port before I'd have a problem and over 40 degrees to starboard to have one and then only if the tank was filled to the very, very top
We are talking about a sailboat. I have been to 35 degrees many times, and not particularly on purpose.

Having a loop or low spot in the vent line would stop it from working if any fluid collected there (why your sink doesn't stink).
Really? Thanks for the lesson on the P trap. But that isn't what I suggested. Running a vent line from gunnel to gunnel while sloping back to the tank will prevent fuel from coming out the vent at angles up to 90...a true knockdown. Even if a small amount of fuel is trapped in the line, the tank will still not pressurize or vacuum starve the engine.

I was merely trying to save you some trouble. I would rather spend a few more dollars on a longer vent line, than spill fuel into the water.
 
Oct 24, 2008
424
Macgregor 25 (1984) Wildomar, So. Cal.
We are talking about a sailboat. I have been to 35 degrees many times, and not particularly on purpose.



Really? Thanks for the lesson on the P trap. But that isn't what I suggested. Running a vent line from gunnel to gunnel while sloping back to the tank will prevent fuel from coming out the vent at angles up to 90...a true knockdown. Even if a small amount of fuel is trapped in the line, the tank will still not pressurize or vacuum starve the engine.

I was merely trying to save you some trouble. I would rather spend a few more dollars on a longer vent line, than spill fuel into the water.
I haven't made this particular mod yet, but have been considering it for some time. Your design sounds like a good idea. Can you provide some kind of pic or illustration on how this would work on one of the 25s? Thanks!!
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
why would a loop in the vent line not work? its not a check valve, but will keep 99% of fuel in the tank while spilling. I have had check valves fail...

-when you take a FULL tank, and bounce it up and down, the hydraulic pressure up through the vent can reach 2' in a small vent hose.. I can see fuel spouting out of the vent into the motor well.

if you want check valves I'd suggest looking at jegs or summit racing.
 
Oct 8, 2008
362
MacGregor/Venture 25 Winthrop Harbor, IL Drummond Island,MI
Okay........no snickering with my lame artistry.................:doh:Up in da nort woods, we have deese tings called snow machines ya hey dare. They have vents similiarly fashioned, which fuel does get trapped(as long as it isn't water), and they even work inverted. Credit for the idea goes to them............J
 

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Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
John and Bill thanks for the ideas and I'll keep them in mind if I have a problem,

Sum
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,541
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
Sumner, just something to think about.. your 26S is probably best set up for an extended cruise of any Ive seen - but probably also the heaviest Ive seen - and its going to have a lot of weight to the rear with the tank.

On my 26S, if I put a lot of weight to the rear (actually - not that much weight), I can get the water line of the boat such that it is above the ballast tank vent and access hole. If these are plugged very well - no problem. But if not, water can leak in and eventually sink the boat.

I put a little dam around my ballast tank holes - so no matter how much leaking occurs, it just fills the little pool around the holes. The pool will only fill to the outside water level.. This little mod give me huge piece of mind - especially in a place like Lake Powell where you might be miles from anything other than sheer cliff..

Just a thought..
 

Sumner

.
Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
Sumner, just something to think about.. your 26S is probably best set up for an extended cruise of any Ive seen - but probably also the heaviest Ive seen - and its going to have a lot of weight to the rear with the tank.

On my 26S, if I put a lot of weight to the rear (actually - not that much weight), I can get the water line of the boat such that it is above the ballast tank vent and access hole. If these are plugged very well - no problem. But if not, water can leak in and eventually sink the boat.

I put a little dam around my ballast tank holes - so no matter how much leaking occurs, it just fills the little pool around the holes. The pool will only fill to the outside water level.. This little mod give me huge piece of mind - especially in a place like Lake Powell where you might be miles from anything other than sheer cliff..

Just a thought..
Thanks, but after you commented on this before I followed your lead and ....



....raised the fill point. I had replaced all the tank gaskets, but like you said this is even better and you are right that the water level now is just above the vent hole. It doesn't come to the top of the new fill. We used this riser last year with no problems. I do put a screw in plug in it after the tank is filled and have some adapters that also screw into it he help if I have to get a flush at a Zebra check, but haven't tried those yet. Did they flush your tank last time at Powell?

Also the other day I used another couple tubes of JB Weld and strengthen the riser more even though I hadn't had a problem. Later I'd also like to glass it in. Even with the plug out if the boat is level in the water none comes out the top. The dam might also be a good idea down the road.

The other day I also added a bilge bump on the port side and have it plumbed in to discharge just above the rub-rail and it also has a shut off valve in the line. I hope to never use it.

I would also like to raise the riser under the sink that the centerboard line runs in. I haven't had leakage there since I double clamped it, but the water rides close to the tubing that is attached to it under the sink.

c ya,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac-Venture Links
 
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