Gas line primer bulb location

[Florida sail]

Tohatsu recently replaced my gas line, under warranty, because of a defective primer bulb. The new, much thicker and grey gas line, has the primer bulb at the gas tank end of the fuel line. This presents the problem of the motor fitting not being able to fit through the gas boot and the inconvenience of the primer bulb at the gas tank end rather than between the motor and the transom. Is there a reason for this? Can I change the fittings as well as the direction of the primer bulb? Thanks...

>>ron<<
S/V Serenity

 

[Stu Jackson]

Is there a reason for this? Can I change the fittings as well as the direction of the primer bulb?

Sure you can. The bulb can be anywhere along the hose. It's just the way they make the assemblies. The thicker hose simply means it's bigger, they make two sizes or more of hoses. Many skippers make up their own hose and bulb assemblies because of lengths and arrangements. If you check the WM catalog you'll see the different components or assemblies you can purchase.

 

[sailingdog]

No reason you can't relocate the bulb to where ever it is most convenient for you. I'd add a small Racor gas/water separator while you're at it. Helps prevent lots of engine problems. The one I recommend is Racor 025RAC02, and looks like this:

Available from Maesco.com, where I got this photo.

 

[caguy]

Actually there is a reason. Pumps are made for pushing not sucking, but if your tank isn't that low it won't matter. I like the idea of the gas water separator thanks Sailingdog.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Actually there is a reason. Pumps are made for pushing not sucking, but if your tank isn't that low it won't matter.

Frank, that's not true. Diaphragm pumps, for instance, are made to "suck" and can handle a relatively high amount of suction head and don't need to be "primed."

Just throwing a bit o'engineering with the facts so as not to mislead folks.

WMA have a good writeup on different kinds of pumps and their applications. See: http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/westadvisor/10001/-1/10001/PumpTypes.htm

 

[sailingdog]

As Stu points out, it really depends on the pump design. Most diaphragm pumps will have little trouble with suction, it is generally only the impeller and centrifugal pumps that have issues with suction. Piston based pumps will also have fairly good suction as well.

The squeeze bulb is basically a cheap diaphragm pump with a bulb shaped diaphragm and does just fine sucking or pushing. It has a check valve on each side of the bulb, and as long as the check valves are clear of obstructions, it doesn't matter where it is in the line. If you've got obstructions in the check valves, you've got other issues to deal with that are more important.

One thing I do recommend is to keep the bulb high enough that it isn't sitting in the water, if there is water or areas that tend to be wet near your fuel tank.

Actually there is a reason. Pumps are made for pushing not sucking, but if your tank isn't that low it won't matter. I like the idea of the gas water separator thanks Sailingdog.

 

[Benny]

You may change the location but not the direction. The bulb pump operates in one direction as market by small arrows.

 

[somers12]

My bulb also has a directional arrow marked on its side

Steve...

 

[sailingdog]

All the primer bulbs do, since they have two check valves and only work in one direction, as I pointed out previously. They're basically small diaphragm pumps.

My bulb also has a directional arrow marked on its side

Steve...

 

[Florida sail]

Thanks everybody for your replies. I will change the location of the bulb and be aware of bulb direction. While I am doing this I will install an in-line filter in addition.

>>ron<<
S/V Serenity

 

[catsailor]

Water seporators without drain valves are troublesome, IMHO.

No reason you can't relocate the bulb to where ever it is most convenient for you. I'd add a small Racor gas/water separator while you're at it. Helps prevent lots of engine problems. The one I recommend is Racor 025RAC02, and looks like this:

Available from Maesco.com, where I got this photo.

What I recommend, particularly if e-10 separation is an issue for you, is a larger model with a drain to let the water out without making a mess. Mount it somewhere where you can drain it without gas getting to the bilge; in my case on a catamaran, there are generally good choices on the bridge deck between the hulls. Check it every time, at least visually. Filters last nearly forever on small outboards, unless a very large slug of water gets to it... which will not happen if you check every time. And fill the tank after every use to prevent water absorption into the fuel.

The image is a Raycor 120 R, but there are other models. Great insurance.

 

[sailingdog]

If water in my fuel were a common problem or I was having E-10 separation issues, I would use a larger Racor. Neither is the case, so the small one does just fine. I might add that I don't motor a whole lot either... so fuel usage is relatively minimal on my boat. In a given season, I doubt I go through more than 10 gallons or so of fuel.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

I like the idea of the water separator. It cost me some heavy $$ when water got into my engine from the fuel a couple years ago. I have a system that allows me to remove the tank and line at the season's end. While I can visually inspect something like this it would be a pain to remove it if it's permanmently mounted, at the season's end to make sure that no stray amount of water remains in the separator to freeze over the winter. If I mount this item in my lazarrette where my externally vented tank resides during the season how foolproof is the seal if it must come apart to drain?

 

[catsailor]

E-10 cannot freeze.

I like the idea of the water separator. It cost me some heavy $$ when water got into my engine from the fuel a couple years ago. I have a system that allows me to remove the tank and line at the season's end. While I can visually inspect something like this it would be a pain to remove it if it's permanmently mounted, at the season's end to make sure that no stray amount of water remains in the separator to freeze over the winter. If I mount this item in my lazarrette where my externally vented tank resides during the season how foolproof is the seal if it must come apart to drain?

It will drain completely with the valve, and the seal is fool proof. I have used this model on 2 boats for many years. Be warned, the factory REALLY puts the filter on and you will need a good filter wrench. It doesn't need to be overly tight.

If you are using E-10, which I suspect you are if you have water problems (but perhaps not), there is way too much ethanol in the separated phase to freeze. Typically it is ~ 85% ethanol. A very small amount of water, absorbed from the air, makes the mixture unstable when the temperature drops.

Yes, the EPA knew this instability when they came out with E-10. It is forbidden in aircraft and in boats on the Hood River Inlet. (http://www.epa.gov/OMS/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf)

And none of the additives that claim to help will. Snake oil. I tested 8 of them in the lab for Practical Sailor. Just drain the water.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

Thanks, Catsailor. I'm in the northeast portion of the country and I probably am encountering the E-10 in the fuel up here. I regularly use fuel Stabil in all my gas powered machines (snowblower, lawnmower, big leafblower, emergency Generator - yes I do have more tools than Sears or Roebuck...) though, and the water in the fuel problem was when I was using the additive made by the outboard company... I was planning to install and mount the seperater in the lazzarette, though I usually remove and drain the fuel line for the winter till now.

 

[catsailor]

Actually, your greatest risk is the first cold snap, probably in October.

Thanks, Catsailor. I'm in the northeast portion of the country and I probably am encountering the E-10 in the fuel up here. I regularly use fuel Stabil in all my gas powered machines (snowblower, lawnmower, big leafblower, emergency Generator - yes I do have more tools than Sears or Roebuck...) though, and the water in the fuel problem was when I was using the additive made by the outboard company... I was planning to install and mount the seperater in the lazzarette, though I usually remove and drain the fuel line for the winter till now.

The temp drop makes the water/ethanol phase insoluble.

Draining is not a bad idea either. However, the best winterization method is the one you use with a car; use it regularly, if at all practical. I am convinced that if an absence is less than 2 months you are better off to do nothing - no fogging oil, do drain anything - nothing. My guess is that when the carb is "drained", what ever remains dries and forms varnish. If the bowl is not drained and does not evaporate dry - which takes a long time in the winter - there is no varnish.

This may be tough to put into practice in the NE. I am near Annapolis an leave my boat in all year, since the water seldom freezes. Though I may not go out much in Jan/Feb, I start the engines, turn on light, and visit the boat regulary all year. Really cuts down on spring problems.

 

[oldiesrocker2001]

I wish I could go out and start the motor etc in the winter, Catsailor. The boat resides on a trailor in the winter with the outboard in the large shed; fuel tank and line in the smaller shed. Even if I left the motor on the transom, I'd still have to drag a garbage can full of water to the engine to submerge the impeller(it seems that the muffs won't work on my little merc 4hp). Maybe I should have made the contractor put a hard lip around my fish pond so I could run the motor in the winter....
The drain/no drain/run till dry idea has been kicked around a lot and I've found that: if I failed to run dry my old 2.2hp 2-stroke it would gum up over the off season; even though I ran my 4stk merc dry at the end of each day i could(and did) get water damage in the carb; both lawnmowers never drained or run dry and always start in the spring; small leaf blower(did I mention I had a lot of tools?)never run dry always starts; big leafblower(4strke) not run dry-always a problem; weedwacker never run dry always starts; chainsaw and hedgetrimmer run dry always starts.. This dilemma has always confounded me.

 

[catsailor]

Makes you want to go back to oars.... No kidding.

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