Garmin Deceptive Advertising

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 2, 2008
14
Hunter 420 cheseapeake
After using my Garmin 182C with a Chesapeake Bluechart since 2003, last summer I decided to update the map. Garmin advised me to buy a blank card and programming cable in addition to the map since otherwise I would need to pull the 182c out of the Navpod on my Hunter 420. I did that and after much telephone time with Garmin and trips to the boat I got the map loaded.

What I immediately noticed with the new map is water is displayed in dark blue rather than light blue which results in less contrast between blue water and the black spot soundings and depth contours. In addition, black wording on the map is enclosed in rectangular boxes which obscure map data. These problems make the display so hard to read that my wife and I find the unit unusable unless we revert to our original 2003 outdated map. This is not a sunlight issue since the bimini shields the unit from direct sunlight.

I went around in circles with Garmin for months since then including removing the unit and sending it to them this winter. They said they tried some “adjustments” but couldn’t change anything. They said they had changed the Bluecharts after I bought my unit but there is nothing they can do to fix the way it looks. They acknowledged that others have complained but made it sound like most people don’t have a problem with the changed displays. I suspect not many people have bothered to update their charts.

Garmin has always claimed the Bluecharts can be updated which is absolutely not true unless a user wants to accept degraded performance. This is deceptive advertising- it should be clearly advertised that future map upgrades can result in degraded performance.

For my troubles, Garmin offered me a coupon worth 30% off the purchase of items thru their website at their website price. I couldn’t save the coupon and must purchase the items in the next 30 days. I told them to keep it; I’m not spending any more money to update the chart and I’m not going to spend money to change the chart plotter and Navpod. We will live with the old map and I don’t know what we will do when we need a map for outside the Chesapeake Bay.

I give up, Garmin wins.


Pete
 
Dec 9, 2008
426
1980 Hunter 30 "Denali" Seaford, VA
Sorry to hear about that. I've had nothing but good service from them when I needed it. All it takes for me is one bad experience though... unfortunately it seems to become the norm. Perhaps with the economy crisis, some companies will realize the necessity of good business practices to survive, those that don't may get weeded out.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
When I went to Garmin's web site for the 182c first thing I saw was "This item is discontinued".

Either they have had problems up dating the maps or they just decided like so many manufacturers to change models. I am always disappointed when I can't get parts or service for a perfectly satisfactory tool be it a drill or a truck or a printer. I had a HP printer go bad and was told by many to just replace it. The cost for opening it up would exceed the replacement cost for a new one.
 

Tim R.

.
May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
I have fairly consistently updated the charts on my Garmins over the years. 182c, extrex legend, Quest II and 3206. While they have changed color and formats, I have never found them unusable. Although the 182c is discontinued, the map data(Bluechart) for them is not is not. I remember there being a change when the color shading in the water changed but I preferred it over the old style.

I have heard others complain about chart coloring from other manufacturers as well.

I am sorry this did not work out well for you Pete. I have always found Garmin to be more than accommodating when it comes to their products including swapping out a unit that was more than 2 years old.

I am fairly certain that the 182c has a setting under map setup that allows you to change the color of the soundings and other labels. Did you try that?

Ross, the reason HP does not stock parts for every printer is because many of them are so cheap to begin with, they could not make money supporting the parts needed for repairs. Their higher end printers from 15 years ago still have parts available. I would bet you payed no more than $125 for that printer and it probably cost even less to replace. How many years of service did you get? How many pages did you print?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,346
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Pete
If you don't want the 30% discount certificate, please get it regardless and give it to one of us.
 
Oct 22, 2008
3,502
- Telstar 28 Buzzards Bay
I'd also point out that in six years, the technology has advanced quite a bit. For instance, I doubt that the 182C supports AIS or DSC input. Many of the newer units have all the inland or coastal charts for the US pre-loaded, and buying a new unit, with a better display, more features, support for DSC and AIS, is not much more than buying the charts for the older units in many cases—especially if one were to have a 30% off coupon.
 
Jul 8, 2004
155
Hunter 33.5 Portsmouth VA
Sorry to hear about you problem with the 182C. I have had nothing but good experiences with their tech support and customer service.

I recently did an Op system and Bluechart update on my 192C. I won't go into the details, but after the OpSys update, the new charts would not load. The Garmin tech folks fully aware of the problem were most helpful. They expressed me the previous OpSys update which allowed the charts to load and told me to just keep the card. After the new charts were loaded, the newest Opsys was loaded and I am very pleased with the how the 192C now functions.

I'd have to agree with Tim about changing some settings. I had to do some "declutter" changes to have the display work like it did before the update.

Hope you can make it work for you.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
TimR, I wasn't so much complaining as observing the trend in low end electronics. I guess by biggest complaint was I had just purchased a couple of ink cartridges when the durn thing froze up. It gave me good service while it lasted and it was cheap.
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Gov maps vs commercial maps

All the above are why I don't think a commercial chart plotter is a very cost effective way to get map info.
I note that the government maps are still in the same format (and up to date) as they where 10 years ago.
If you are going over seas this is even more problematical as most commercial chart plotters don't even have maps for those regions. The high end models do but they have unique formats and the price is quite high. The gov maps for other nations are also in the international BSB format and while pricey (from free for US maps) are not as much as commercial versions.
With that said you do get some bells and whistles with commercial maps. But then I also get a phone book delivered to my house free.
 
Sep 25, 2008
2,288
C30 Event Horizon Port Aransas
Do the bottoms change so much in 5 years that maps need to be updated? What else are you concerned with that is updated on the new charts? I am considering buying upgraded charts for my plotter and I really don't know what I need or what to look for.

Also, do the numbers for the depth change automatically to adjust for the change in tides? I thought this is what a chart plotter was for.
The first greatest benefit of a chart plotter is it shows you where you are on the map, the second is that is automatically adjusts for tides. But I am not sure if the second item is true.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Do the bottoms change so much in 5 years that maps need to be updated? What else are you concerned with that is updated on the new charts? I am considering buying upgraded charts for my plotter and I really don't know what I need or what to look for.

Also, do the numbers for the depth change automatically to adjust for the change in tides? I thought this is what a chart plotter was for.
The first greatest benefit of a chart plotter is it shows you where you are on the map, the second is that is automatically adjusts for tides. But I am not sure if the second item is true.
The buoyage can change. the sounding are often decades old. The shorelines remain about the same. The biggest change in the last 40 years was a switch from black cans to green. The numbers on the navigarion marks change sometimes. At Kent Island Maryland they built a new bridge and dredged a new channel. Some bridges have changed from opening to high clearance. But if you have 50 year old charts you are about a million times better off than Colombus or Capt. John Smith or Henry Hudson
 
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Bells and whistles

It is my understanding that the ability to tell you how much water is under the keel is the sole providence of the depth sounder. The chart plotter just reports the depth at mean lower low tide (I think that is the term). Tides do not vary in predictable ways. A good example is today on the Chesapeake. The eastern shore folks are having tides 1' over normal and use western shore boaters are having 1' lower than normal. The wind (which varies all over the bay) blows the water around in ways that no chart plotter software would be able to calculate.
Course knowing that I can sail through that channel right now when I'm 4 hours away is a pretty useless feature. In 4 hours the story will be completely different.

You do have to take your hat off to those early explorers. They did it with lead line and probably ran aground a lot.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Re: Bells and whistles

I have a 1950 edition of a Chesapeake Bay cruising guide. The writer suggested that in many places it was prudent to have your "sounding pole" handy. No depth sounders in those days. No chart plotters or gps or electronic knot logs.
 
Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
I need to get updated Chesapeake charts fairly often in our area, particularly since we have a 5'2" keel. the Kent and Knapps Narrows chanels and aproaches are a case in point.Out to the south west of Tolchester Marina on the Eastern Shore the dog leg in the channel has had the bouy locations and numbers changed every couple years as the areas have ben dredged ot the chanel has shifted.I'm not sure the electronic chart information is as up-to -date as the paper charts. and I won't buy new chart books without carefully looking at the dates for the info anyway.Looking at an older version of the Maryland Cruising Guide, the Preface lists some of the areas where the most numerous changes have been made. I keep the old ones at home so I can do some general planning, but use the newer ones for marks and depths when racing or cruising.
 
Mar 3, 2007
139
Catalina 36 Lexington Mi
I have a 1950 edition of a Chesapeake Bay cruising guide. The writer suggested that in many places it was prudent to have your "sounding pole" handy. No depth sounders in those days. No chart plotters or gps or electronic knot logs.
Dad, what are you doing on here?? LOL Just kidding with ya Ross...when I read that I could hear my dad saying those exact words.
 

Ross

.
Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
Dad, what are you doing on here?? LOL Just kidding with ya Ross...when I read that I could hear my dad saying those exact words.
I may be old enough to qualify but in this case I found it in a used book store. ;)
 

higgs

.
Aug 24, 2005
3,704
Nassau 34 Olcott, NY
I gave up on chart plotters a long time ago. I used to have a nice Garmin unit - black and white with a small screen that caso under $400. Now, you can't touch one for what $500. Then to go through all the bs described here makes me ever more satisfied with SeaClear and my $300 notebook.

I am going through the same type of thing with my Ray Marine below deck auto pilot and getting nowhere with them on it. It begins to make one wonder if all this stuff isn't more trouble than it is worth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.