I have a couple spare Fram spin/on secondary fuel filters in my inventory. I know how this forum likes OEM oil filters, but you all ok with Fram fuel filters?
Fram Fuel filters for Yanmar 3jh2e
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More important to check with Yanmar to see if they will invalidate your warranty(if you have one).
Personally I have always felt Fram filters to be a little on the cheaply made side. I few bucks extra for a Yanmar filter may be worth the expense.
Personally I have always felt Fram filters to be a little on the cheaply made side. I few bucks extra for a Yanmar filter may be worth the expense.
Most all the makers of automotive oil filters buy their filter media from one single world source. Engine manufacturers don't make filters, they buy from various filter manufacturers who 'private label' them.
Fram is just as good as anyone else, unless you have a preference for the paint and lettering.
Warranty refusal for use of aftermarket maintenance purchases is against federal fair trade laws.
Fram is just as good as anyone else, unless you have a preference for the paint and lettering.
Warranty refusal for use of aftermarket maintenance purchases is against federal fair trade laws.
Unless your oil filter fails; collapses, or sucks up into the engine and kills it...then your warranty is void. The intertubes are full of stories of woe related to inadequately constructed fram filters. Use the OEM -spec'd filter.
Rich, try cutting open a Fram and a Wix filter and you will see that the construction is completely different. You may be correct that some brands use common media but they do not construct the filters the same way. Nor do they all have anti-drain-back valves.
Although Yanmar certainly does not make oil filters, they absolutely do specify exactly how they are constructed.
I was a little conservative in my initial response but back when I was restoring and racing vintage British sports cars, no one I knew would use a Fram oil filter even as a paper weight.
The OP is asking about fuel filters. I use to use Fram oil filters on my Westerbeke 21. I mentioned this to some Westerbeke techs and they adviced against it stating automotive after market oil filters were nolt designed for the crackcase presure of their engine. I never had a problem with them but switched over to OEM oil filters anyway. As far as fuel filterss go, I've been using Fram fuel/water seperators on my Westerbeke for over 20 years and never a problem..
...I was recently at my local Mazda dealership. On the wall in the parts dept they had a display with a genuine Mazda oil filter and a Fram oil filter each cut in half...the quality difference was obvious. Buy the real thing....its only a buck or two more.
I used Lucas electrical parts and worn out Stromberg carburetors. There being an abundance laying about.
LOLI used Lucas electrical parts and worn out Stromberg carburetors. There being an abundance laying about.
Here's one for you: Do you know why brits drink warm beer? Wait for it.........because they have Lucas refrigerators!
No, I have to call you on this one. There are several internet sites where enthusiasts have cut open just about every brand oil filter you can name, and they are not even close to the same.
Also, I dont know of any manufacturer who is required to warrant a destroyed engine due to a part failure from a non OEM company. If they can prove the failure was caused by someone else, they will walk away from it.
Ferrari is a notable example. They will warrant against engine damage for 3 years or 30K miles if you buy their timing belts. But its on you if you use someone elses, or even a Gates who makes their belts and has Ferrari logo on it. If you didnt buy it from a dealer, they wont stand behind it. In another example, Ferrari's UFI filter was failing and several lost engines. Ferrari tried to blame it on installation, but it was shown there was a design change and it was the filter that was failing. $$$Kaching, at over $30K for an engine that cost them a few bucks.
I know were talking fuel, but were also talking about a diesel engine. Anything not stopped by the filter is going to get forced through the injection pump and injectors. I buy WIX and Baldwins. They are resonable priced and of very good quality. I wouldnt put a Fram on my lawnmower.
I should add, the Frams were all shown to have very cheap cardboard filter element ends that often collapse internally, virtually putting the filter into bypass and not filtering anything. In some cases they have caused severe blockages leading to oil starvation. Because the oil pressure switch or gauge sender is generally on the upstream side of the filter, there is no notice of pressure loss, but often a noted increase in pressure. I have seen a few that "thumped", like a heart beat. They are just cheap junk. Virtually every other oil filter had steel element ends.
Now we're having fun!
Q: What is the only thing Lucas manufactures that does not suck?
A: The Lucas electric vacuum cleaner.
The times I spent around Jags and MG's, to be truly honest 99% of their problems were hamfisted mechanic and bonehead owner induced than anything to do with the cars quality. I think in the whole Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area there were like three people who you could really call British sports car mechanics. The rest did more damage than they fixed.
I've got some "background" with Wix, (NAPA is a Wix rebranded minus the first number). One of the best.
Fram, one of the worse. Alarmingly cheap. Maybe people like orange.
We would cut these things apart commonly to analyze them.
Lucas: The Prince of Darkness. (Electrical what)?
As a kid, I had the pleasure of pushing a MG all OVER North Carolina.
Fram, one of the worse. Alarmingly cheap. Maybe people like orange.
We would cut these things apart commonly to analyze them.
Lucas: The Prince of Darkness. (Electrical what)?
As a kid, I had the pleasure of pushing a MG all OVER North Carolina.
With absolutely no intention to cast dispersion nor humiliate anyone here .... ~99% of what’s been posted is simply WRONG, and with wholly unsubstantiated 'wild' claims of unscrupulous others being innocently repeated . Many are simply the victims of and are passing along what is known as ‘slick’ Marketeering
First of all,. as one who has been very deeply involved in ultra-advanced and beyond ‘state of the art’ filtration engineering for his adult life as a scientist and engineer, 99.9% of the responses in this thread are entirely WRONG and misleading as with reference to “FRAM filters”, etc.. Fram brand filters are simply an efficient and very cost effective brand that has very successfully filled a commodity niche in the filtration industry for many years. I’ve never had any commercial nor scientific connection to Fram as these are ‘commodity’ filters.
What has driven this wholly unscientific, wrongful commentary, most filter geeks would state is an obvious and dishonest attack originally driven by very dishonest marketeering originating by an unscrupulous sales manager of a competitor of Fram, that competitive filter company not any longer even in business yet the ‘stink’ and continued growth of dishonest marketeering remains long after the corpse of that dishonesty remains. The same techniques of obvious rampant dishonesty of unsubstantiated and marketeeing can also be found in many other aspect of typically ‘american’ life – election campaigns, promotion of inferior products, litigation proceedings, etc. etc. all promoting dishonesty and wholesale skewing of ‘the truth’ for the pursuit of gain and profit.
Second, this type of fuel and lubrication filtration has been well established since the 1930s and follows accepted worldwide standards developed by the Oklahoma State University – OSU …. ‘the OSU F2 test stand’ which evaluates filter performance of such ‘crude’ filters - the standard measures the logarithmic ratio of input particles to the outlet particles at defined µM ratings – called ‘beta ratio’ and is very important in filter selection for the ‘technically minded’. Does the filter perform to standard or not? ... the only question needed.
Such crude commodity type filters DO NOT retain ‘all’ particles but have an efficiency of removal at those µM ratings. Filtration is very complex, is not as a screen door, uses ‘holes’ in the filter media that may be 10 or 20 times the size of what is desired to be retained. If you wanted to remove ‘all’ of the particles at the retention rating, your filter would cost you upwards of hundreds or thousands of times more in cost. The science involved includes ‘surface chemistry’, electronic/molecular van der waals forces, inertia of dissimilar phases of liquid flow, inertial impaction, absorption, adsorption, the physical/chemical nature of the specific contaminant expected, vibratory nature of molecules, the differences between ‘soft’ gel-like particles and ‘hard’ particles, the velocity of the fluid and these particles through the filter media, the amount of filter surface area, the total depth of the filter material, how the debris acts either on the surface of the filter media or deeply inside the filter media, etc. ….. very complex and nowhere near the uniformed consumers illusory concept of a ‘screen door’.
The ‘cosmetics’ and their comparisons are simply uniformed (lawerly) emotional HOGWASH, as the only validation of performance is the scientific “OSU F2 test data” results – does the filter remove what is claimed under standard F2 evaluation. I could construct such a filter from compressed pubic hair, kotex pads, wound cotton strings, etc. (all ‘were’ used in the past) to meet the F2 test stand standards. It really doesn’t matter what the color of paint, what happens to be the logo embossed on the package, the internal configuration, etc. … only, does it meet the industry standard of performance – compliance to F2.
In the case of Frams configuration and construction …. They use a ‘thicker’ more open flow filter media which captures more ‘soft particles’ than hard particles; soft easily extruded particles being the predominant species in contaminated fuel oil; the apparent less ‘amount of pleats’ is more optimized to reduce ‘blind off’ the ‘nose’ section of the pleats due to bridging of accumulated slimes and gel-forms - Fram probably better removes ‘soft/deformable’ particles than many of its competitors.
“They use cardboard” …. the very same construction of the filter media - a ‘technical’ cardboard made from epoxide resonated cellulose fiber into a paper which has better affinity for epoxy which is used to join the filter media and it end caps and is designed to withstand the ‘collapse pressure’ that would ‘crush’ a filter when the filter becomes totally ‘plugged’. It works, and it allows automatic/robotic assembly. - cheaper to make., just as effective as metal ‘end caps’ that require ‘hand assembly’, has better assembly surety & integrity due to the better compatibility of the epoxy bond between filter media and end cap. So if one has an objecto to ‘cardboard’ you better also remove the filter media – also a (technical) ‘cardboard’. The summary of all this is - that on a purely honest, objective and fully scientific and technical basis Fram filters will do the exact same job as any other such filter … in spite of the wholly dishonest marketeering and ‘glitz’ used on the internet to ensnare the typical uniformed and non-technical consumer. … and you can apply the same adverse ‘observations’ to ‘jury trial awards and litigation’, shysterism, outright popular ‘flim-flam’, political elections, etc. etc. etc. etc. The only thing that matters in fuel and oil filtration is compliance to the OSU F2 standards. .
So in summary, and with no disrespect to and no intention to ‘cast dispersion’ on anyone posting here …. unless you have specific scientific proof or knowledge that such filters are in any way ‘inferior’ as to performance ….. then simply you have absolutely no idea about which you are commenting. Consider that you’ve been targeted and coerced (and ‘had’) by dishonest ‘marketeering’ that you are innocently repeating here without ‘substantiation’ …. easy trap to fall into in todays ‘well marketed’ culture.
Other - Warranty issues.
Again totally uniformed information that is contrary to ‘monopolistic practices and fair trade laws’. As described, an auto manufacture could and can easily coerce you into thinking that unless you purchased your tires, your windshield washing fluid, your oil, you ‘fan belts’, your replacement brakes, your car wax, your ‘grease’, etc. only from him that you would be somehow ‘violating’ the conditions of your warrantee ….. remembering that the ‘repair shop’ is perhaps a larger profit efficiency center for auto, etc. dealers than even selling you a new vehicle on a ‘profit margin’ basis and to coerce you by stating such is simply illegal …. and yet probably 90% of the US uniformed population thinks this forced warranty compliance is true.
Only where a manufacture has given advanced/prior WRITTEN NOTICE or documentation that certain maintenance components or maintenance ‘soft goods’ are necessary for compliance of warranty purposes is such valid and legally binding --- all the rest is illegal under US fair trade laws. Next time your auto dealer attempts to coerce you into vastly more expensive (profitable) brand-only maintenance items …. ask him/her to show you that requirement in writing; and then expect a quick ‘change of story’ as you then watch them ‘slink’ away due to the uncovering of their profitable and wholly illegal ‘flim flam’. Of course, the uniformed will continue to get ‘raped’.
Simple rules for ‘fuel and lube oil filtration’ on marine engine:
Use the ‘largest’ (surface area) filter you can afford. Monitor the performance of the fuel filter with a vacuum/pressure gage so you know WHEN to change them.
• Engine lube oil filters – just change often/regularly …. that technology was completed 80 years ago … and nothing much has changed since then.
• Fuel filters – 99% of all diesel engine fuel system are designed and based on the removal of 20µM particles. 99.9% of all manufacturers will have an engine mounted ‘guard’ filter at ~15-17µM (in case the upstream ‘racor filter train’ fails). The typical filter set (where ‘needed’, will be: tank →30µM (nominal) →10µM (nominal) -→ engine OEM mounted guard filter at approx.. ~15µM (nominal) → engine. Putting a 2µM filter anywhere in that filter train will affect nothing and will exponentially lead to premature plugging of the filters (by a factor of 10-20 times ‘faster’), reduced fuel flow, and high load on the engine’s lift pump for possible premature failure of its diaphragm.
;-)
First of all,. as one who has been very deeply involved in ultra-advanced and beyond ‘state of the art’ filtration engineering for his adult life as a scientist and engineer, 99.9% of the responses in this thread are entirely WRONG and misleading as with reference to “FRAM filters”, etc.. Fram brand filters are simply an efficient and very cost effective brand that has very successfully filled a commodity niche in the filtration industry for many years. I’ve never had any commercial nor scientific connection to Fram as these are ‘commodity’ filters.
What has driven this wholly unscientific, wrongful commentary, most filter geeks would state is an obvious and dishonest attack originally driven by very dishonest marketeering originating by an unscrupulous sales manager of a competitor of Fram, that competitive filter company not any longer even in business yet the ‘stink’ and continued growth of dishonest marketeering remains long after the corpse of that dishonesty remains. The same techniques of obvious rampant dishonesty of unsubstantiated and marketeeing can also be found in many other aspect of typically ‘american’ life – election campaigns, promotion of inferior products, litigation proceedings, etc. etc. all promoting dishonesty and wholesale skewing of ‘the truth’ for the pursuit of gain and profit.
Second, this type of fuel and lubrication filtration has been well established since the 1930s and follows accepted worldwide standards developed by the Oklahoma State University – OSU …. ‘the OSU F2 test stand’ which evaluates filter performance of such ‘crude’ filters - the standard measures the logarithmic ratio of input particles to the outlet particles at defined µM ratings – called ‘beta ratio’ and is very important in filter selection for the ‘technically minded’. Does the filter perform to standard or not? ... the only question needed.
Such crude commodity type filters DO NOT retain ‘all’ particles but have an efficiency of removal at those µM ratings. Filtration is very complex, is not as a screen door, uses ‘holes’ in the filter media that may be 10 or 20 times the size of what is desired to be retained. If you wanted to remove ‘all’ of the particles at the retention rating, your filter would cost you upwards of hundreds or thousands of times more in cost. The science involved includes ‘surface chemistry’, electronic/molecular van der waals forces, inertia of dissimilar phases of liquid flow, inertial impaction, absorption, adsorption, the physical/chemical nature of the specific contaminant expected, vibratory nature of molecules, the differences between ‘soft’ gel-like particles and ‘hard’ particles, the velocity of the fluid and these particles through the filter media, the amount of filter surface area, the total depth of the filter material, how the debris acts either on the surface of the filter media or deeply inside the filter media, etc. ….. very complex and nowhere near the uniformed consumers illusory concept of a ‘screen door’.
The ‘cosmetics’ and their comparisons are simply uniformed (lawerly) emotional HOGWASH, as the only validation of performance is the scientific “OSU F2 test data” results – does the filter remove what is claimed under standard F2 evaluation. I could construct such a filter from compressed pubic hair, kotex pads, wound cotton strings, etc. (all ‘were’ used in the past) to meet the F2 test stand standards. It really doesn’t matter what the color of paint, what happens to be the logo embossed on the package, the internal configuration, etc. … only, does it meet the industry standard of performance – compliance to F2.
In the case of Frams configuration and construction …. They use a ‘thicker’ more open flow filter media which captures more ‘soft particles’ than hard particles; soft easily extruded particles being the predominant species in contaminated fuel oil; the apparent less ‘amount of pleats’ is more optimized to reduce ‘blind off’ the ‘nose’ section of the pleats due to bridging of accumulated slimes and gel-forms - Fram probably better removes ‘soft/deformable’ particles than many of its competitors.
“They use cardboard” …. the very same construction of the filter media - a ‘technical’ cardboard made from epoxide resonated cellulose fiber into a paper which has better affinity for epoxy which is used to join the filter media and it end caps and is designed to withstand the ‘collapse pressure’ that would ‘crush’ a filter when the filter becomes totally ‘plugged’. It works, and it allows automatic/robotic assembly. - cheaper to make., just as effective as metal ‘end caps’ that require ‘hand assembly’, has better assembly surety & integrity due to the better compatibility of the epoxy bond between filter media and end cap. So if one has an objecto to ‘cardboard’ you better also remove the filter media – also a (technical) ‘cardboard’. The summary of all this is - that on a purely honest, objective and fully scientific and technical basis Fram filters will do the exact same job as any other such filter … in spite of the wholly dishonest marketeering and ‘glitz’ used on the internet to ensnare the typical uniformed and non-technical consumer. … and you can apply the same adverse ‘observations’ to ‘jury trial awards and litigation’, shysterism, outright popular ‘flim-flam’, political elections, etc. etc. etc. etc. The only thing that matters in fuel and oil filtration is compliance to the OSU F2 standards. .
So in summary, and with no disrespect to and no intention to ‘cast dispersion’ on anyone posting here …. unless you have specific scientific proof or knowledge that such filters are in any way ‘inferior’ as to performance ….. then simply you have absolutely no idea about which you are commenting. Consider that you’ve been targeted and coerced (and ‘had’) by dishonest ‘marketeering’ that you are innocently repeating here without ‘substantiation’ …. easy trap to fall into in todays ‘well marketed’ culture.
Other - Warranty issues.
Again totally uniformed information that is contrary to ‘monopolistic practices and fair trade laws’. As described, an auto manufacture could and can easily coerce you into thinking that unless you purchased your tires, your windshield washing fluid, your oil, you ‘fan belts’, your replacement brakes, your car wax, your ‘grease’, etc. only from him that you would be somehow ‘violating’ the conditions of your warrantee ….. remembering that the ‘repair shop’ is perhaps a larger profit efficiency center for auto, etc. dealers than even selling you a new vehicle on a ‘profit margin’ basis and to coerce you by stating such is simply illegal …. and yet probably 90% of the US uniformed population thinks this forced warranty compliance is true.
Only where a manufacture has given advanced/prior WRITTEN NOTICE or documentation that certain maintenance components or maintenance ‘soft goods’ are necessary for compliance of warranty purposes is such valid and legally binding --- all the rest is illegal under US fair trade laws. Next time your auto dealer attempts to coerce you into vastly more expensive (profitable) brand-only maintenance items …. ask him/her to show you that requirement in writing; and then expect a quick ‘change of story’ as you then watch them ‘slink’ away due to the uncovering of their profitable and wholly illegal ‘flim flam’. Of course, the uniformed will continue to get ‘raped’.
Simple rules for ‘fuel and lube oil filtration’ on marine engine:
Use the ‘largest’ (surface area) filter you can afford. Monitor the performance of the fuel filter with a vacuum/pressure gage so you know WHEN to change them.
• Engine lube oil filters – just change often/regularly …. that technology was completed 80 years ago … and nothing much has changed since then.
• Fuel filters – 99% of all diesel engine fuel system are designed and based on the removal of 20µM particles. 99.9% of all manufacturers will have an engine mounted ‘guard’ filter at ~15-17µM (in case the upstream ‘racor filter train’ fails). The typical filter set (where ‘needed’, will be: tank →30µM (nominal) →10µM (nominal) -→ engine OEM mounted guard filter at approx.. ~15µM (nominal) → engine. Putting a 2µM filter anywhere in that filter train will affect nothing and will exponentially lead to premature plugging of the filters (by a factor of 10-20 times ‘faster’), reduced fuel flow, and high load on the engine’s lift pump for possible premature failure of its diaphragm.
;-)
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Thanks for the informative post RichH.
One question - Where did anyone get enough compressed pubic hair to construct an oil or fuel filter?
One question - Where did anyone get enough compressed pubic hair to construct an oil or fuel filter?
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