Formal Nautical Education

[patagoniadave]

tldr: I am curious about my options through university, tech schools, smaller programs or even apprenticeships. Google has not really been that helpful.

Background: I am 45, a project manager at an Architecture firm, but I have no formal education. I bought a sailboat in March without ever having been under sail before or even knowing if I got seasick. I am completely and haplessly hooked. I am mostly self taught through reading books and hands on trial and error. There have been some local anchor neighbors who took me out the first few times and answer my ignorant questions. I joined every sailing related facebook group I could find to click on. I am intentionally single, and an introvert, so I spend all of my free time reading through my sailboat library, practicing hands on, or scrolling through online groups and chat archive messages.

I am learning a lot, and loving it, but there are going to be holes in my education if I keep only to this path. I have started wondering about formal education. I started googling things like "Naval Architecture" and "Marine Engineering" The problem with university programs is that I am old. I have all of my English and electives through life experiences, and there is no return on investment for me to pay someone to teach me how to read Shakespere. I have come across things like "Chapman School Of Seamanship" and "The Landing School". The University of Tasmania has an interesting program that seems heavily weighted to the actual Major. I love the idea of an apprenticeship, but don't know if there are even such things anymore.

I would prefer to study abroad (not in the United States). I have already driven all over the US in a RV for 5 years, and want to explore more of the world.

Ideally it would be a place where I could liveaboard the boat, commute to campus in a tender, and design my own curriculum. Weather, Navigation, Small Ship Building, Fluid Dynamics, Structural Engineering whatever came up that was interesting to me.

Sorry for the rambling, sometimes it helps to write out ideas, so I can then focus back on work. Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[Roland5048]

The problem with university programs is that I am old.

At 45? I'd dare say you are preaching to the wrong choir around these parts.

 

[patagoniadave]

At 45? I'd dare say you are preaching to the wrong choir around these parts.

Realistically, I could not start going to school for 3-4 years. Add 4 years minimum for a degree, I will be ready to retire....

 

[Roland5048]

When I started graduate school I was lamenting to a colleague that I would be X years old by the time I finish in Y years.
Colleague replied: And how old will you be in Y years if you don't finish?
Just a thought.

 

[Terry Cox]

Hi Dave. Our family began our sailing experience with a 28' Hunter sloop in March of 1999. Cruised her for three years and then decided to get a larger more comfortable boat, which we purchased in 2002, a Hunter Passage 42. All self taught here by doing those things you've done; study books, practice, more study, etc. We've cruised our boat thousands of miles all over PNW waters ever since with several over two month cruises. No regrets.

Begin with the most important system on the boat, anchoring. Nail it down by inspecting for the right gear in good condition for your cruising grounds and then practice. I always drop at around 25' mid tide depth letting out 110' minimum rode; a bit more than 4 to 1 scope. If sour weather is in the forecast I'll increase that to 130' or more.

Please share with us more details about your boat, cruising plans, etc., so that we can better understand you intentions. Congrats on your new boat and welcome to the site. Always glad to see new faces with fresh ideas and interests.

 

[patagoniadave]

When I started graduate school I was lamenting to a colleague that I would be X years old by the time I finish in Y years.
Colleague replied: And how old will you be in Y years if you don't finish?
Just a thought.

It's more about the cost, than the time. If I was independently wealthy, I would not care about how long it took.

 

[Richard19068]

@patagoniadave

After reading your post I am not sure what you really want to do. Is that what you are asking? "What should I do with my life that involves sailing/boating?"

 

[patagoniadave]

Hi Dave. Our family began our sailing experience with a 28' Hunter sloop in March of 1999. Cruised her for three years and then decided to get a larger more comfortable boat, which we purchased in 2002, a Hunter Passage 42. All self taught here by doing those things you've done; study books, practice, more study, etc. We've cruised our boat thousands of miles all over PNW waters ever since with several over two month cruises. No regrets.

Begin with the most important system on the boat, anchoring. Nail it down by inspecting for the right gear in good condition for your cruising grounds and then practice. I always drop at around 25' mid tide depth letting out 110' minimum rode; a bit more than 4 to 1 scope. If sour weather is in the forecast I'll increase that to 130' or more.

Please share with us more details about your boat, cruising plans, etc., so that we can better understand you intentions. Congrats on your new boat and welcome to the site. Always glad to see new faces with fresh ideas and interests.

It's funny, but that is exactly what I did. Learned about anchoring first, and built from there. My sea trail was an anchoring lesson, we did not even put the sails up.

I had this 5 year plan to pay off my condo, turn it into a rental, buy a boat, and learn to sail. I got bored after the first year, so I did some creative financing, and bought a 34' Irwin to learn to sail in. Money is really tight now, but I am happy. I am still planning to wait until the condo is paid off before sailing full time, but I am learning to sail as I wait. If Starlink stabilizes and there is an affordable marine option, I can bump up that time table as well. I am in the Sea of Cortez.

In the mean time, my boat is at anchor outside my condo window. I sleep on here every night, and kayak back and forth to the condo for work. On the weekends, I singlehand up the coast to a remote cove about 17 miles away if I am not tacking. I "camp" on the boat, do some spear fishing and reading, and come back Sunday. It's been very educational. I intend to do that for the next 3 years, then start long cruising around the world.

Originally I was going to sell this boat and buy a bigger one, but I could also just upgrade this one. We will see.

Also, I may have an option to spend those years waiting in Hawaii.It is debatable if my boat is blue water enough to make the trip to Hawaii, but I'll cross that bridge if it becomes an option.

I am capable of doing this all self taught and hands on, but I know I will make mistakes and learn bad habits. I have always wanted to go back to school, but never had something I wanted to learn badly enough.

 

[patagoniadave]

@patagoniadave

After reading your post I am not sure what you really want to do. Is that what you are asking? "What should I do with my life that involves sailing/boating?"

The rest of my life is going to involve sailing or the ocean in some capacity. More than likely just cruising around. But, I am finding all of this so...fascinating, I am wondering if there is a path that involves some formal training, and what the best avenue is for it. Bonus I guess if it leads to a career change, but I am really more interested in acquiring the knowledge.

 

[dlochner]

I am capable of doing this all self taught and hands on, but I know I will make mistakes and learn bad habits. I have always wanted to go back to school, but never had something I wanted to learn badly enough.

The schools you cited much earlier are in the business of preparing marine technicians, engineers, and architects. This is all good, but won't do a lot for preparing for a cruising lifestyle.

There are good resources out there to learn from, some more organized than others.

Two very good free resources are Steve D'Antonio's website and Rod Collins MarineHowTo.com. Leaders in their fields who present easily understood information about the issues DIYers face in maintaining our boats.

John Harries's Attainable Adventure Sailing is a pay site (very affordable) with a lot of information on cruising, especially when sailing in remote parts of the world. The site is frequented by well known and well respected people in the cruising world. His advice is clear and reliable and he is known to be a bit opinionated.

A recent addition to the mix is BoatHowto.com. This site provides both free and paid content. There are online courses on different topics. The first is on boat electrical systems. Nigel Calder is a principal in the site.

Another look at the industry is from Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An online subscription is free or very little.

That should get you started.

 

[patagoniadave]

The schools you cited much earlier are in the business of preparing marine technicians, engineers, and architects. This is all good, but won't do a lot for preparing for a cruising lifestyle.

There are good resources out there to learn from, some more organized than others.

Two very good free resources are Steve D'Antonio's website and Rod Collins MarineHowTo.com. Leaders in their fields who present easily understood information about the issues DIYers face in maintaining our boats.

John Harries's Attainable Adventure Sailing is a pay site (very affordable) with a lot of information on cruising, especially when sailing in remote parts of the world. The site is frequented by well known and well respected people in the cruising world. His advice is clear and reliable and he is known to be a bit opinionated.

A recent addition to the mix is BoatHowto.com. This site provides both free and paid content. There are online courses on different topics. The first is on boat electrical systems. Nigel Calder is a principal in the site.

Another look at the industry is from Professional Boatbuilder magazine. An online subscription is free or very little.

That should get you started.

Cool links! Thank you, I have added them to my massive stockpile of bookmarks. I am completely down with becoming a marine technician/architect/engineer. Like I said, this is all so interesting to me. I watched a video on fine tuning a sail, she mentioned fluid dynamics, I want to learn about that, in depth. I read an article about masts with no rigging. Now I want to know about structural engineering on a boat. I have ideas about my perfect boat that I will buy in 3 years, but frustrations about not understanding even the basics of boat design. I watched some thunderheads pop up unpredicted, sure wish I knew more about weather. I need to learn about tides and currents before I leave this area. I can cruise without a lot of that information, but I still want to know it.

I want hands on learning, or at least non computer learning. I sit in front of a computer for 9 hours a day, and probably spend a couple more reading sailing articles and forum posts. A classroom setting or hands on apprenticeship sounds like a lovely change of pace.

 

[jon hansen]

so you want to be a "Sailor". i think i can call myself a sailor. capta is one too. a sailor is different than a yachtsman, j think. a lot of the info suggested here is very good yachtsman info.

knowing the wind is half the story. knowing your vessel is the other half. if you want to be a sailor.

so here is what you do. buy this book

read it, reread it, underline things, read it again. this is a masters course text for sailing anywhere in the world. know this, and you are a sailor.

jon

 

[Crusty Ol Salt]

The problem with university programs is that I am old.

I was joining the Navy around the time you were born retired from that gig back in 1998. You are still a young man.

I think I graduated from seminary when I was 53. Heck of a lot of night school on that trip, but it was fun. I don't cuss much for a sailor, I might cuss to much for a preacher tho'.

I am getting ready to retire a second time and take on something new. Maybe something non-traditional learning.

2-Year Traditional Wooden Boatbuilding Apprenticeship — The Apprenticeshop

Or volunteer my time at something like this

Deltaville Maritime Museum

Never to old to learn, keeps your mind sharp

 

[Crusty Ol Salt]

this is a masters course text for sailing anywhere in the world. know this, and you are a sailor.

jon

Dude, you break my heart... I think you are narrowly defining the term sailor.

1 year on a nuclear submarine. It did not take long to figure no fresh air and sunlight was not my gig.
4 years on a destroyer
8 years on 2 different aircraft carriers

I kind of think of myself as a decent "sailor"

Now I own a sailboat and I am once again expanding my knowledge as a "sailor"

Your point is a good one. Just giving you a hard time.....

 

[patagoniadave]

so you want to be a "Sailor". i think i can call myself a sailor. capta is one too. a sailor is different than a yachtsman, j think. a lot of the info suggested here is very good yachtsman info.

knowing the wind is half the story. knowing your vessel is the other half. if you want to be a sailor.

so here is what you do. buy this book

View attachment 207307

read it, reread it, underline things, read it again. this is a masters course text for sailing anywhere in the world. know this, and you are a sailor.

jon

I want to be a sailor.

I ordered the book, thank you.

 

[patagoniadave]

I was joining the Navy around the time you were born retired from that gig back in 1998. You are still a young man.

I think I graduated from seminary when I was 53. Heck of a lot of night school on that trip, but it was fun. I don't cuss much for a sailor, I might cuss to much for a preacher tho'.

I am getting ready to retire a second time and take on something new. Maybe something non-traditional learning.

2-Year Traditional Wooden Boatbuilding Apprenticeship — The Apprenticeshop

Or volunteer my time at something like this

Deltaville Maritime Museum

Never to old to learn, keeps your mind sharp

It's more about the money. I should say "I am too old to take in that much debt" university is expensive.

 

[justsomeguy]

@patagoniadave , do you attend the morning cruiser's net on 74?
"Rides and crew".
What's the name of your boat? Mine's Aegean Odyssey.

 

[patagoniadave]

@patagoniadave , do you attend the morning cruiser's net on 74?
"Rides and crew".
What's the name of your boat? Mine's Aegean Odyssey.

No, I am up and off the boat by 5:30 for work. My condo is in the Villa Bahia mini towers. I tried using a handheld to participate in the net, but the cliffs block at least half of the conversations. Adrian on Motu was looking into making me an auxiliary antennae that I could string out on the balcony, or sneak up on the roof, but we never finished that project. My boat is Perla.

 

[justsomeguy]

No, I am up and off the boat by 5:30 for work.

So, 9 hours of work later you go out for an evening jaunt on your Irwin? Yes?
I like Adrian. A very helpful guy.

 

[jon hansen]

crusty, surely you are a sailor too. sail or steam, it's about the years at sea and the knowledge acquired. i made my living on ships. been sailing on sailboats for 62 years.
crusty, try the book as well. everything a sail vessel does and why