Formal Nautical Education

[patagoniadave]

So, 9 hours of work later you go out for an evening jaunt on your Irwin? Yes?
I like Adrian. A very helpful guy.

Adrian is one of my favorite people, he has been instrumental in my sailing education, and just all around helpful.

No, I switched to 4-9 hour days, and a half day Friday so I can go up to San Pedro Cove on Friday, and have all of Saturday to relax before coming back. So after work is for errands, reading books on sailing, and maintenance projects on the boat.

 

[justsomeguy]

My boat is Perla.

What I'm saying is learn by doing. I'm more than willing to put off my afternoon libations to go for a brief sail on your boat or mine.
Well, not more than willing.

 

[justsomeguy]

San Pedro Cove

Ah, love that anchorage.

 

[patagoniadave]

What I'm saying is learn by doing. I'm more than willing to put off my afternoon libations to go for a brief sail on your boat or mine.
Well, not more than willing.

I am learning by doing. I have lost count of how many times I have made that up and back trip, and each one has been different than the last (although the wind always seems to want to mess with me on Sunday). I am also learning by reading everything I can put my hands on, and lurking on forums and facebook groups.

I guess what I was saying, is that while I am totally confident I can learn what I need this way, there will be holes, and I like the idea of going back to school for something I am actually passionate about.

All of that being said, I will gladly take you up on your offer. I will send you an instant message with better ways to contact me. Thank you.

 

[justsomeguy]

Thank you.

My pleasure. Should be down there within a week.

 

[capta]

tldr: I love the idea of an apprenticeship, but don't know if there are even such things anymore.

An apprentice on a boat is often called a crew member. lol
Many of the occupations you mentioned are country specific, so you might consider where you would like to live once you've got a certificate.

 

[patagoniadave]

An apprentice on a boat is often called a crew member. lol
Many of the occupations you mentioned are country specific, so you might consider where you would like to live once you've got a certificate.

I was thinking more of a boat building and sail design apprenticeship. I am going to live on my boat, and that location will vary often.

 

[David in Sandusky]

When I got a degree in mechanical engineering, I took one semester of structural engineering, and two of fluid mechanics. They included all the tools to understand wave mechanics, and the design of hull shapes, air flow/wings/sails, and beams (mast, booms, and rigging.) Those courses required calculus - another two semesters. Ohio State offers free auditing of all those courses for those of us over 60. I bet they would consider allowing you to audit them for free for your avocational purpose. So I would ask engineering universities in areas that interest you what are the chances of auditing such courses.

Application of the thought tools you would learn in those courses to the nautical application could happen in the lab section of the courses, or you could take a job as an assistant in a design or research operation. My university had wind tunnels and a wave lab I could use while taking fluid mechanics. At that time, I ran a small, well instrumented wind tunnel to understand how wings ( that is sails) work. In fact, “trimming a sail” is a continuous effort in redesigning a flexible wing.

My Professor/Tutor, Peter P. Wegener, wrote an excellent book called “What Makes Airplanes Fly?” that clearly explains the aerodynamics of wings/sails for non-engineers. As a note: rudders, keels, and sails are all wings, and operate on the same principles.

Finally, I am a life long learner. I encourage you in your pursuit of the fluid and structural mechanics of sailing. What I have learned so far adds immensely to my joy of sailing our boat!

 

[patagoniadave]

When I got a degree in mechanical engineering, I took one semester of structural engineering, and two of fluid mechanics. They included all the tools to understand wave mechanics, and the design of hull shapes, air flow/wings/sails, and beams (mast, booms, and rigging.) Those courses required calculus - another two semesters. Ohio State offers free auditing of all those courses for those of us over 60. I bet they would consider allowing you to audit them for free for your avocational purpose. So I would ask engineering universities in areas that interest you what are the chances of auditing such courses.

Application of the thought tools you would learn in those courses to the nautical application could happen in the lab section of the courses, or you could take a job as an assistant in a design or research operation. My university had wind tunnels and a wave lab I could use while taking fluid mechanics. At that time, I ran a small, well instrumented wind tunnel to understand how wings ( that is sails) work. In fact, “trimming a sail” is a continuous effort in redesigning a flexible wing.

My Professor/Tutor, Peter P. Wegener, wrote an excellent book called “What Makes Airplanes Fly?” that clearly explains the aerodynamics of wings/sails for non-engineers. As a note: rudders, keels, and sails are all wings, and operate on the same principles.

Finally, I am a life long learner. I encourage you in your pursuit of the fluid and structural mechanics of sailing. What I have learned so far adds immensely to my joy of sailing our boat!

I am enjoying the journey of learning

 

[DArcy]

If you are a self learner and interested in yacht design then you really should pick up a copy of Skene's Elements of Yacht Design. It's been around a long time but updated over the years. Another one I like is Yacht Design According to Perry although it is specifically about Robert Perry's boats

 

[Kings Gambit]

Ideally it would be a place where I could liveaboard the boat, commute to campus in a tender, and design my own curriculum. Weather, Navigation, Small Ship Building, Fluid Dynamics, Structural Engineering whatever came up that was interesting to me.

Curriculums leading to certification/degrees are designed by faculty at the institution and go through several layers of review and approval. There are usually options called electives that support the core curriculum. A student might be able to take courses of personal interest only, but that would not conclude in certification. You’re basically talking trade schools where potential employers specify want skills they wish in the graduates and faculty design the curriculum. The degree allows entry. After that it’s up to the individual to build the skill sets while on the job. Apprenticeships would have even narrower focus than a trade school curriculum I imagine.

Many folks wish to work in the marine and boating world/services, and many do, but finding a niche is hard. As largely a “consumer” of boating services, one that seems underrepresented & under available is marine rigging. These guys are much in demand and always have a backlog. It’s definitely apprentice-type training, learning. I’ve heard them complain about the general lack of trainees (assistants) willing to “dive in” and learn the material. Of course, you’d need to eventually have a shop near marinas with a lot of yachts. Find one if you can and try to sign on as an apprentice. Be resigned to the fact that “the master” might be much younger than you. However, you might start by learning how to splice ropes (there are many kinds), how to make soft shackles, and how to measure a sailboat for a new suite of sails, etc.

 

[patagoniadave]

If you are a self learner and interested in yacht design then you really should pick up a copy of Skene's Elements of Yacht Design. It's been around a long time but updated over the years. Another one I like is Yacht Design According to Perry although it is specifically about Robert Perry's boats

Thanks, I'll add them to my library.

 

[patagoniadave]

Curriculums leading to certification/degrees are designed by faculty at the institution and go through several layers of review and approval. There are usually options called electives that support the core curriculum. A student might be able to take courses of personal interest only, but that would not conclude in certification. You’re basically talking trade schools where potential employers specify want skills they wish in the graduates and faculty design the curriculum. The degree allows entry. After that it’s up to the individual to build the skill sets while on the job. Apprenticeships would have even narrower focus than a trade school curriculum I imagine.

Many folks wish to work in the marine and boating world/services, and many do, but finding a niche is hard. As largely a “consumer” of boating services, one that seems underrepresented & under available is marine rigging. These guys are much in demand and always have a backlog. It’s definitely apprentice-type training, learning. I’ve heard them complain about the general lack of trainees (assistants) willing to “dive in” and learn the material. Of course, you’d need to eventually have a shop near marinas with a lot of yachts. Find one if you can and try to sign on as an apprentice. Be resigned to the fact that “the master” might be much younger than you. However, you might start by learning how to splice ropes (there are many kinds), how to make soft shackles, and how to measure a sailboat for a new suite of sails, etc.

Good advice, thank you!

 

[dLj]

In my opinion, sailing is learned by doing.

University courses on specific subjects like fluid dynamics and such can be useful for fundamental understandings but actually looking for a course to get a degree in sailing? I don't think it exists. You do have the Annapolis School of Seamanship - I don't know of another school with quite that focus but they probably exist in places like New Zealand. You said you don't want to come to the US so you likely aren't interested, but you may wish to check out what it offers. The Annapolis School of Seamanship can help you get your Captains license and various endorsements, but I don't know that they give you some kind of degree... They do offer programs in the subjects you've mentioned. I'm not trying to push that school, I've never gone to it, I just know a bit about it as I sail close by.

The most useful sailing learning that I've experienced has been sailing - on my boat or other people's boats - with much more experienced sailors than myself. Nothing like sailing with another sailor that really knows their stuff and seeing the direct application right there on the boat.

dj

 

[patagoniadave]

In my opinion, sailing is learned by doing.

University courses on specific subjects like fluid dynamics and such can be useful for fundamental understandings but actually looking for a course to get a degree in sailing? I don't think it exists. You do have the Annapolis School of Seamanship - I don't know of another school with quite that focus but they probably exist in places like New Zealand. You said you don't want to come to the US so you likely aren't interested, but you may wish to check out what it offers. The Annapolis School of Seamanship can help you get your Captains license and various endorsements, but I don't know that they give you some kind of degree... They do offer programs in the subjects you've mentioned. I'm not trying to push that school, I've never gone to it, I just know a bit about it as I sail close by.

The most useful sailing learning that I've experienced has been sailing - on my boat or other people's boats - with much more experienced sailors than myself. Nothing like sailing with another sailor that really knows their stuff and seeing the direct application right there on the boat.

dj

I'm doing pretty good with the combination of hands on and self taught by book sailing. It was some of the other topics I was most interested in a more classroom or apprenticeship approach.

 

[jssailem]

If I was looking for a hands on job in the sail boat world, I’d take a serious look at becoming a rigger.

The marina yard always has masts down being worked. A skilled rigger can work as much as desired. Pay seems good. Believe entry would be through apprenticeship.

My rigger once commented that of the 2000 boats in the marina 40-50 percent of them were in need of rigging repairs and the owners never knew it.

 

[patagoniadave]

If I was looking for a hands on job in the sail boat world, I’d take a serious look at becoming a rigger.

The marina yard always has masts down being worked. A skilled rigger can work as much as desired. Pay seems good. Believe entry would be through apprenticeship.

My rigger once commented that of the 2000 boats in the marina 40-50 percent of them were in need of rigging repairs and the owners never knew it.

I wasn't really looking specifically for a job, although I guess it would be nice to be paid for something I enjoy. I was just looking to see if there was a more efficient way to learn about all of the things I want to learn.

 

[jssailem]

Ahhhhhhh

 

[patagoniadave]

Well. An apprenticeship is a job. Now it’s not at all clear to me what you’re looking for (cf. post #1). A hyper-osmotic environment? Your comment brings to mind reference to the “… teach me the world’s knowledge/secrets while standing on one foot” paradigm. A condition known from antiquity.

I really have no idea what you mean. I am not looking for a new job or a new career. I am looking for knowledge. I was digging around in the internet to see if I could find a program that already combined most of the topics that I am curious about. I figured I would ask here as well because I was not having any luck.

 

[patagoniadave]

This is what I am talking about, to which you have been duly referred as to one possibility thereof.

Which I appreciated and am going to look into. I am not sure what is bothering you about that?