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Forestay too long

Jun 8, 2004
7,671
-na -NA Anywhere USA
@Joe and @DrJudyB

I have removed all previous posts. Many questions for additional information from the poster have yet to be answered and without that I cannot give a good response. Judy hit on a major point which I was going to point out when additional info was received.. First I do advise what I did for Hunter to show my knowledge and experience only and then speak in layman's terms as many prefer it that way. There were many ideas given to the industry from me but do not wish to discuss that except the fact I was very instrumental in the water ballast series built by Hunter and I am very grateful to my friend, Warren Luhrs who owned Hunter, that he listened. At times I feel attacked and withdraw. I will give you my two cents worth and then take care of issues at home and my hobbies as I do not have time for now due to other issues and will ask that the two of you follow up only if the Poster will at least help us here to help him. I will state I enjoy helping Boy Scout Councils with their sailboats.

The original comments are the turnbuckle studs are completely all the way in the turnbuckle body along with a rake of 20 inches. Tuning and rake are different from each other but the comments from the poster appears to be synomonous . The one photo shows squat in my books. Before becoming a sailboat dealer, I was an investigator for an insurance company to include safety the old gumshoe style which is why I ask for additional information in order that we give a better response. In fact, I handled litigation and never lost a case. If questions are not being answered, my policy is not to give reasonable replies as I to be blunt do not want to waste my time when I help others to include church, model railroading with decoder installs, Boy Scout Councils with sailboats and so on not to mention a mountain that I take care of and @Kermit can attest to, I had to use my truck to pull his 260 up the quarter mile driveway due to the steepness. In fact following open heart surgery last year, three months following surgery, I helped an owner to put his mast up and 260 into a lake in TN as he had no one to help him as he had little experience.

First the Hunter 26 was introduced by me at Annapolis and the last hull built laid in August, 1997 for the model year 1998 when the Hunter 260 came out. Besides the forward hatch, cockpit wheel, swim platform and other minor upgrades but major to many, the forestay chain plate was attached at the hull to deck joint on the bow below the deck plate. The original boat came with only a forestay.. I was instrumental working with CDI and Hunter to supply as an option the FF2 system. Due to the forestay chain plate being lower than the deck itself, tangs were needed to raise the drum so it would be able to clear the deck. The forestay had to be either modified or replaced. I chose to replace it with a new one. Why? The original forestay would have to be cut with it inside the furling extrusion and cut at the bottom with a new stud by the owner or a rigger. The big problem for servicing if that forestay had to come out of the furler, that manual put on stud was too large to go thru the extrusion or grey plastic hole and that in itself was a headache. Thus a new forestay was in order as a swaged stud could go thru the extrusion hole. That said, I am not sure what is happening as the Poster is not helping himself as he is either slow or reluctant to supply the additional information. A good example is a side shot of the mast with the main up and condition of the mainsail itself Would be most helpful. Further is there any play left in tightening the turnbuckles particularly the forestay that is buried within the furler itself. If in fact the there is no room left in the forestay turnbuckle body and the a side photo shows the mast raked back without knowing the tuning too, then one of several things has happened. Since the Hunter 26 ceased production over 22 years ago, could the standing rigging have stretched to a point there is no room to adjust for the tuning anymore? Could it be the standing rigging originally was not manufactured correctly as to lengths but doubt that knowing who made it? Was a manual stud put on possibly the cut of the forestay being too long? How about the tangs were the correct ones used. The only way to tell is measure which Judy pointed out if you want a true assessment which dropping the mast to get that is needed to get an accurate measurement. I can tell you my daughter who was 10 at the time raised a mast by winching it up on TV before a show and I sold some boats that weekend which was good marketing.
As to tuning, this is a B &R rig with no backstay. I was given instruction by the two owners of B &R as to tuning. I can say the lower shrouds are generally tighter than the upper shrouds. Then of course if originally sails, it could be a Rob would say blown out. The one photo supplied I could not tell but it looks like the bolt rope is bunched up inside the sail. There are other things but cutting studs nor the deck sagging is out of the question. There are compression posts in the 26 and 260.
With all that I have going on, I will ask that the two of you take this over. I have other things that need my immediate attention which have come up. Shot a rattler a few days ago and ran off a bear with a boat air horn last night
It would be interesting who the person in the photo is measuring that forestay.
 
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Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
357
Macgregor 26M P Cub Boo Mobile AL
Glad to hear it's easy to drop the mast @Crazy Dave Condon. Hope he can do it soon and get everything measured. I think that will identify the problem in short order.

Looks like Dave and Judy are taking a hard look at the forestay/furler, so we may be near a resolution.

I have a 2013 Mac 26m, bought in 2015 from the first purchaser. There were numerous rigging issues, some of which I have identified and solved. Some were identified by my posting photos/info in various forums. All of that to say, it's not unheard of to get a boat that isn't set up properly, or that has been "enhanced" by a PO. When you encounter something strange, start comparing things to factory specs and see if anything is amiss. If you can't figure it out, put as much info as you can in posts to allow forum members to try and help. The more info exchanged, the better the help.

Having said that, the OP may have career and family commitments that prevent him from getting back immediately with info requests. Or, his boat may be too far away to allow a quick info response. I recommend patience, although the suspense is killing me...
 
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Jun 25, 2004
697
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
It would be interesting who the person in the photo is measuring that forestay.
That’s a photo taken by a customer of mine who bought a used Hunter 26. We made a mainsail and a headsail for his boat, and we taught him how to do a basic tune on his rig.

That particular photo was taken to document how high to make the tack of the headsail above the deck.

It’s just one of about 40-50 rig measurements we take before designing sails. We need to know all the dimensions of the rig and deck hardware, including forestay length, furler position, mast rake, mast bend, boom angle to mast, chainplate locations in 3D coordinates, etc.. We take digital photos too, about two dozen per boat to visually review and use them to proof the measurements that w e recorded. We kept a database with all the rig data which has thousands of boats in it. Modern sail design software used the data as inputs

We compared every customer’s measurements and photos to boats of the same model or a similar design.

It’s very, very common to find boats with significant modifications made to the rigging. Prior Owners change things on their boats... and we all know that a new (subsequent) owner may have to replace hardware and change the way the rig is tuned to get it set up the way they want. There's no single "right" way to rig or tune a sailboat. But even so, sometimes the prior owner made ill advised changes to the hardware and rig.

As part of our customer service,,we offered technical advise on how to do a basic tune for all kinds of rigs, including but not limited to B&R rigs.

..... so that’s a long winded story of the background of how I have up close and detailed photos of thousands of rigs in my database.

Judy
Retired sailmaker
 
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Jun 25, 2004
697
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
@Crazy Dave Condon ,

Dave,
I greatly respect your extensive expertise about the Hunter sailboats! And I’m sure most members of the community do too. I doubt folks mean to be disrespectful when they jump in to help a new owner of an old boat. That’s what we all do on the forums; we try to help other boat owners.

The forum is all about “crowd sourcing”.

Respectfully,
Judy B
 
Jun 25, 2004
697
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
By the way, I looked up more information in our files about that photo. It's an FF4, not an FF2. I surmise that a previous owner chose to install a CDI FF4 rather than an FF2. That's a perfectly good choice for an H26, arguably better than an FF2 in some cases. For example, a bigger diameter drum provides more mechanical advantage in high winds; it also has a greater capacity for line so you can use fatter line for comfort if you want.
 
Aug 9, 2019
15
Hunter H26 Simpatico Hayden Island
OK Guys,

OP Here. I've had some family stuff and a day on the water and have been away from my computer. I've done some research on my own and viewed all the responses here.

I've come to the conclusion that my mast is not original. I have about 4' of mast above the topmost position of the mainsail. It seems close in all other regards. So I intend loeplawering the mast and chopping some off, install spinnaker running rigging, replace anchor light with a LED, install a wind indicator. But we have bridges above and below us with limited clearance. One can be opened, one not. The one that is openable is not manned. they have to send someone over. Can take an hour. So I'd like to be able to sneak under the other one at 39' There are longer range plans. I would like to address the forestay sooner than later. Kinda want to shorten it without lowering the mast. Mast rake creates a heavy helm!!! Always fighting the tiller. I also have the thought of a quick release forestay and tilting the mast back to allow bridge clearance at any river level.

If I cut loose the forestay, can I lower the mast to around 45* without loosening the side stays or taking off the boom? Just use a tackle to lower and raise from the forestay attachment point?

Sorry for all the clutter in my original question. But I do still have 12" too much rake. So my original question is still valid for the most part. Can I get a compression fitting for the forestay and shorten it? I see some of the fittings can be over $100. I should be able to get a whole new forestay made for under $200. But that means lowering the mast and the boat resides on the water.
 

Jim26m

.
Apr 3, 2019
357
Macgregor 26M P Cub Boo Mobile AL
You need to build or buy a mast raising rig. I don't know about leaving the boom connected while you lower. Depends on the specific boom connection on your boat. With a little time and effort you should be able to pull or rotate the boom and partially drop the mast to duck under bridges. You may need to add some baby stays to keep the mast in line while raising and lowering. You can damage a lot of hardware if you let the mast wander around during raising/lowering.

Look at the Macgregor 26m rig. Also google mast raising gin pole. Just for ideas...
 
Jun 8, 2004
7,671
-na -NA Anywhere USA
The Hunter 26 came with a mast raising pole and two babystays( to keep the mast from going sideways).
do you have that gear. Worked with clients to lower the mast partially so they could clear a train tressel going from Aquia Harbor to the Chesapeake Bay.
 
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Jun 8, 2004
7,671
-na -NA Anywhere USA
Judy;

It was suggested by the founder of CDI to use the FF2 vs. the FF4. Granted the FF4 is larger and good for a boat or Hunter 26 if staying in the water but more manageable when trailering the Hunter 26/260. Worked great for the boats I put on. Also the extrusion now comes in a larger box vs. coiled in a much smaller box which created issues.
 

BrianW

.
Jan 7, 2005
840
Hunter 26 Guntersville Lake, (AL)
One final thing to confirm ... make sure your forestay T-ball fitting is in place and has not come loose from the slot near the top of the mast. This happened to me! BrianW
 
Jun 25, 2004
697
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
I've come to the conclusion that my mast is not original. I have about 4' of mast above the topmost position of the mainsail. It seems close in all other regards.
@joecool911
I’m curious... what measurements did you do to arrive at your conclusion?
Have you confirmed that the luff of the mainsail is 30’ 1” or so?
What is the measurement from the max hoist of the halyard down to the base of the mast?
 
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