Forereaching and Heaving to

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Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
There's an excellent article in the December issue of Cruising World by Beth Leonard on the use of forereaching and heaving to as storm tactics. She describes forereaching as making very slow progress to windward at one or two knots under reefed main alone with the helm locked at a point where the boat heads up into the wind and then falls off and starts to sail until the weather helm takes over again bringing the bow back into the wind. Heaving to she describes as balancing a backed jib or staysail with a reefed main and a balancing amount of helm to keep the boat about 45 degrees plus or minus off the wind and drifting downwind at one or two knots. Importantly she says you can tell you are really hove to when there's a "slick" to windward of your boat which calms the seas somewhat before they reach your boat. She also says that while full keel and modified full keel boats heave to pretty well, fin keel boats with skeg hung (or balanced I presume) rudders continue to make headway (thus eliminating the slick) and are thus technically not hove to. I've messed around with heaving to on my boat and know how to do it, but have never used it as a heavy weather tactic. If the weather turns really nasty, we usually head for protection. Also sailing in our protected waters means there's generally a lee shore somewhere nearby which would make heaving to a bad idea. I've also never deliberately forereached, but think the idea is pretty good and plan to give it a try the next time I'm out in some big winds. What has been your experience with these techniques? Can the fin keel boats with separated rudders that most of us sail heave to? Have you used either of these techniques as heavy weather tactics? How well did they work? Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
 
C

Capt Ron;-)

Lying A-Hull

Gary, You re doing the right thing here. Go out when it is blowing forty knots in a bay whence the waves have no fetch, good experience. In a 'normal' gale you can get away with a lotta stuff, run off tow warps, heave-too, trysail, forereach etc. For the real storms above Force ten, been there (scares hell otta ya) there is only ONE response from my experience. Lying AHULL.
 
Oct 25, 2005
735
Catalina 30 Banderas Bay, Mexico
Yes and no :)

My Excalibur 26 with a reefed main and #3 jib would heave to nicely, a small change in trim would get it to fore-reach. It had a fin keel (long by modern standards) and a balanced unskegged rudder. My Catalina 30 will fore-reach, but I haven't found a sail combination that will get it to heave to. I think that freeboard has an effect also. The Ex26 was low freeboard and had good manners at anchor. The Cat30 has high freeboard and dances at anchor like a drunken co-ed. I haven't tried heaving to in storm conditions (tri-sail and storm jib) so I don't have a feel for its use in those conditions. In Small Craft Warning conditions, the Excalibur was quite comfy hove to for a rest or meal break. The Cat30 just won't do it.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
heave-to

I heave-to now and then but she's right (kind of) that its extremely hard to get a fin/wing keel to heave-to properly. I've done it once so I know it works, but many times the end result was more like a fore-reach. As for the wind...strongest I've done was 20 knots with 2 reefs (approx - have furling main) and full jib. Heel was about 15 degrees.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Lying A-Hull

may have the smoothest ride in some conditions, but I think it's the most or second most dangerous. Lying a-hull means the waves are hitting against the beam if they are steep. A wave bigger then the beam will roll the boat. Rolling the boat increases the chance for things to break like hatches (something falling on one while rolling) or becoming de-mast. I think the most dangerous is running too fast. That increases the chance of a broach (a roll with momentum) or pitch polling (flipping the stern over the bow). Maybe with an experit skipper at the helm at all times that isn't a problem, but it sure is risky. I like the idea of the feathering myself but haven't tried it in rough conditions. Feathering is heading into the wind as close as possible (about 30 degrees) and making 2-3 knots. The forward momentum give you a little control and helps ride the waves. The fact that your heading into the wind means your not going to take a wave on the beam so your not going to roll. The bad part of feathering is that it's a rough ride and getting sick is definately a possibility if not inevetable...especially the crew down below. And you can't just lock the wheel either. I hope I never have to find out about any of these but it's always good to talk about them now so you will have an idea as to what to try if you do get caught.
 
Jun 2, 2004
425
- - Sandusky Harbor Marina, Lake Erie
77 Hunter 27 will heave to

We use it for lunch, for reefing, and sometimes to rest when the wind is up. Maybe the shoal draft keel makes it easier. We have sailed Lady Lillie in 35 knots with a double reefed main, and a little bit of jib on a near reach. We were in Sandusky Bay, so the waves were only 3-4 feet. The highest winds in which we have hove to were around 25 knots. The waves were up to 6 feet on that day, and everything calmed down very nicely while we reefed. Another advantage of heaving to in a storm is that slowing the boat means the weather system is passing over. Broad reaching or running means you are going with the wind, prolonging your exposure to the tough conditions. David Lady Lillie
 
C

Capt Ron;-)

Ever Been There?

Franklin, most that write something like that 'lying a-hull being dangerous' have never been there and are reading books by authors who have never been either. 1) even the very best, Montessier, Slocum, Tristan Jones and many, many others, after towing warps, and other 'active storm tactics' as the storm progressed they all ended up a-hull. Read Fastnet 79 by John Rossmaniere, three hundred RACING yachts (fin-keeled) left to their own devices A-HULL, one ended up on the rocks the others were fine without people getting agitated and doing this or the other. BTW You lock your helm over, get weight or windage aft, a drouge, parachute or a series drouge is best, before lying a-hull. My boat had a full-keel, I just locked the helm to leeward. There is no question, lying a-hull is best. No one is outside going overboard, breaking ribs (happened to me) or getting slammed around. Even if you were beam on to the seas, or in a survival storm forced to do a 360, still better than a pitch-pole! I have been there, several times.
 
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Richard Bryer

Hard to get to stay hove to

I have tried to get our H34 ( shoal Draft) to stay hove to but it always seems to wander off. Anyone else done it succesfuly with this boat. Also see postings talking about heaving to to reef. I am sure as soon as I changed my mainsail area by reefing I would immediately head to leeward. If I set up by reefing the headsail befor hand, I would head windward. Hints?
 
Mar 4, 2004
347
Hunter 37.5 Orcas Island, WA
Hints

Richard, A couple of hints: I never heave to to reef. I sail my boat close hauled and then drop the traveller down until the main luffs with the boat continuing to sail under the genoa. I then lower the main to the reef point and secure the reef line. Tension up the halyard and bring the traveller back up and continue on your way. You mention that your boat wanders off when you heave to. Which way? In theory, the heave to position is a fight between the main and the rudder on the one hand and the backed jib or staysail on the other. If the boat wanders to windward the main and rudder are winning the fight. Ease off the rudder or maybe put a reef in the main. My boat has the opposite problems of wandering to leeward in which case the genoa is winning even with the helm hard over. In theory then you roll up some of your genoa and keep doing so until the forces come in to balance. As has been mentioned, our boats have a lot of freeboard which pushes the bow to leeward as well. So if heaving to can be done with a fin keel, balanced rudder boat, it probably doesn't need much jib out there. Hope this helps. Gary Wyngarden S/V Wanderlust h37.5
 
May 18, 2004
386
- - Baltimore
last resort not mentioned

My understanding is that, with due respect to Alard, etc., the latest thinking is that a sea anchor or drogue is the safest for a last resort measure. I know you can get a good pounding lying ahull, and possibly rolled. Its a wonderful tactic to trust your boat, but drifting on a rode while taking it as the boat was designed to makes sense too. The problem with examples like Fastnet is most of us go from racing to survival without rethinking things. The biggest problem with sea anchors is that hardly anyone has a proper one. Haven't quite been in those conditions yet, myself.
 
C

Capt Ron;-)

EPIRB or SERIES DROGUE

Gary Wingarden, great thread, we're all learning here. My regards to mates, John, Rich, Franklin, and Moody (I owned an Excalibur, loved her), you are all sailors, and, well ya can't get a better compliment. Agreed, lying to a sea-anchor is the best of all possible worlds. How many cruisers carry them? Then you need, a bridle, to the jib winch to adjust it, a swivel, or it will un-wrap or twist itself into a mess, "books" tell you a 'retrival' line, but it easy to retrieve AFTER the storm anyway, what ya gonna retrieve it DURING the storm? A 'Serier Drogue' is a 300ft (minimum to get 'behind' an approaching wave) of 3/4 or 1" nylon (it streaches 50% of the length)line with a "SERIES" of little parachute sea-anchors sewn into the line. ONe large parachute can collapse, spin like a top, and not be large enough, or rip. These small 'series' parachutes will not do this, even if some collapse, but why, others take the weight, and further. I'd say 'perfect' is about 50 degrees to the oncoming "MONSTERS" is right, but they average, they are never coming from an exact direction amyway and as your storm passes, your wind will redirect controling the direction of waves so, methinks they call it 'a confused sea' I use to put in ear plugs, nd wear a dive hood and mask; ALL is white, can't tell which is which at times. Very loud, terrifying. Many yachts lie a-hull without any sea-anchor.
 

BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,058
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Newport 28 can heave to

Hi, My 1986 Newport 28 with fin keel can heave to. I have not done this in real bad weather (I have not had to be on board when it was very bad). We have used the heave-to technique to have lunch, rest, etc. We've done it in winds up to 20 kts with a reefed main and partially furled headsail (135 rolled up to about 110). My boat will move upwind at about 1 kt when hove to. The movement is very comfortable, no heeling, taking waves on the front corner. Barry
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
That's not a heave-to

or atleast a proper heave-to. A proper heave-to, the boat moves in the direction of the wind and waves...this creates a slick. This slick is the most important part of the heave-to for bad weather. It smoothes out the waves. It can be hard to get the boat to do this...gotta play with the sails to get the right amount of fight between them. What you did is an attempt of a heave-to but actually end up with a fore-reaching that looks like a heave-to which isn't totally bad...just not the same as a proper heave-to. Once I was trying to cross a very narrow shipping channel from inside a crossing channel and I mis-timed the crossing. Figured it was better to wait for the big ships to clear instead of taking chances. I hove-to quickly. It turned out to be a perfect heave-to and good thing because otherwize I would have ran aground. Last time I tried, I was trying to do some fishing. I hove-to and I was still going forward (easy to tell when your trying to fish) at 1.3 knots. I played and played and played with the sails but just couldn't get it right. Gave up after about 15 minutes. Figured it didn't matter whether I was going forward at 1.3 knots or sideways at 1.3 knots :) when all I was trying to do was fish. Note: Only 1' waves on that side of the bay but wind was about 18 knots true.
 
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Drew

I learnt by accident...

...not exactly a storm at sea, but, I went wandering out one breezy afternoon in what turned out to be wind gusting up to and over 30 kts in my WB H240. Way too much wind without any extra rail meat! I ended up dropping all sail, and lashing the tiller to leeward - just to get it out of the way while I dickered with the outboard. When I looked up, I was astounded that the boat, under bare poles, had found its place and was making gentle headway into the waves at about 45 degrees while drifting slightly to leeward. I just sat there and watched the little fair weather boat take care of itself in a blow. If ever really caught out in a bad way (and not, for the love of God, in a 240), that is what I would do...
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,987
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Heaving to

Gary The trick is to balance the sails. You do that by: 1) making sure you start the heave to from a close hauled position, since this keeps your jib "tight" when backwinded (if you do it from a close reach or beam reach, the jib won't do half as good a job at balancing the boat); and 2) moving your traveler and/or mainsheet after you heave to so as to balance the boat. Our C34 is a fin keeled boat with a separate rudder. We were out in 10 foot seas at 13 seconds over a 9 foot swell last Friday, six miles outside the Golden Gate, and hove to very comfortably for a while. Winds were 25 to 28 true, with higher gusts. These figures are based on a printout of the weather from the NOAA website after we got back, not my own estimates. We had a 110 jib and a double reefed main up. It was a wonderful day, like sailing through moguls!!! The slick worked when we hove to. I've been using that technique for over 20 years when we learned it in sailing class on our C22. Ya gotta go out and do it. Practice, practice, practice. Stu
 
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Warren Milberg

Heaving to

Some years ago, I was out sailing on a friend's boat, a 1980 Hunter 25. This boat had a furling headsail, a very stubby shoal keel (I think it drew 2'11"), and a spade rudder. We found ourselves battling pretty high winds and very steep seas. And it was lunch time. We decided to see if the boat would heave to (the owner had never tried it). We rolled the headsail up to about a 50 per center, tacked and backed the jib with the main just about to luff. We then tied the helm down. Bingo. This little boat hove to perfectly. We had a great lunch while the boat took care of itself and gave us a break. We were both amazed....
 

BobW

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Jul 21, 2005
456
Hunter 31 San Pedro, Ca
Lie ahull in breaking seas? HUH!?!

I'm confused, Capt. Ron. First you stated that lying ahull is the only tactic in dangerous storms (Force 10+), then you opined that sea anchors or drogues are the 'best of all possible worlds'. My studies indicate that lying ahull is not a tactic as much as a surrender (to the sea). It is uncomfortable in high seas, you are drifting rapidly to leeward, and you are helpless when hit by a breaking wave (which are common in dangerous storms). I don't want to get into a fight with you - obviously you have been-there, done-that and I haven't. I just want to make sure that other novice sailors don't get the idea that, when a storm hits, you just take down your sails, lash the rudder over and head below to wait it out. Storms are complex, and each is unique. All of the tactics, including fore-reaching, heaving to,, motorsailing, running off, drogues, sea-anchors and lying ahull have their plusses and minuses. I strongly recommend 'Surviving the Storm' by Linda and Steve Dashew. It covers all the storm tactics, and has many interviews with sailors who have survived deadly storms, as well as analysis of the Fastnet 79 and QB bomb of 94 in the Tasman Sea. This book scared teh s**t out of me and still does. Cheers, Bob s/v X SAIL R 8
 
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don954

I recomend the book...

"Storm Tactics Handbooks: Modern Methods of Heaving-To for Survival in Extreme Conditions" by Lin Pardey. It explaines in detail the techniques and tests for using 'chute anchors & Heaving-To in a storm. Its only $13.57 and it had some really good info.
 
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Capt Ron;-)

Answer to Bob

Dear Bob, I've been busy, in fact may be away for awhile here shortly. I will stand by lying A-Hull, and since your post was a 'gentlemans'response I'll explain. Firstly don't blame me, I didn't INVENT this stuff, I'm just the sucker passin it on as it were. First time I lied a-hull I was with a 'captain' that I did not like very much, and I was convinced it was a completely idiotic thing to do, okay? Then, when all was set, this was a wooden-full keeled choy Lee (sic), we had been running off, before the storm, man what a Nantucket sleigh-ride it was. After we stopped,a nd nailed all down and tied the helm to leeward, it was like the waves suddenly stopped, and we could actually move around a bit without squeezing marrow from every handhold. You can indeed lie a-hull in any condiitons, and especially the worst, that is my opinion. In breaking seas, YES, where ya gonna go? I mean you are caught out, and have to contend with breaking seas absoultely. On a beach the seas break on a reef, a sand bar, but basically in a place PRE-DETERMINED; more to come.
 
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