Forereaching and Heaving to

[RichH]

Lying a'hull .....

means that the boat is lying broadside to the winds/waves. A breaker whose size in height is a couple (?) times the beam of the boat will roll and capsize a boat. Broadside to breaking seas puts the weakest portion of the hull to its most vulnerable position. Thanks, but I'll run off with bare poles or heave-to with/ without a bridled sea anchor (45 degrees off from from the bow) so that the strongest part of the hull is taking the breaking waves. All depends if the seas are 'breaking'.

 

[Capt Ron;-)]

Further on A-Hull

DAmn fine seamen have been lying a-hull for hundreds and hundreds of years, now not for a power vessel unless perhaps it has a series drougue...An expert racing crew, as an example take ENZA, with Peter Blake, Robin KNotts Johnson and some strong experienced guys. they could indeed ACCELERATE to avoid breaking seas, and that cat was huge, 50 meters (forget) even so they were looking at 'other' tactics such as ducking into Antartica to avoid this monster that had hold of them; these guys were the best in the world.That 'storm' in the southern ocean lasted five days or more, are you going to run off for three days? a crew of three can barely hold up in a storm running off for two days! It is cold, scary, at night you cannot SEE the waves you may be 'catching up to' hell they are hard to judge in the daylight.You oft 'run out of sea-room' whilst running before a storm too.Read "Fastnet 79" three hundred of those fin-keeled yachts were abandoned, left to lie a-hull and were found sound after the storm had passed, I gurantee you that they were beam on to those monster seas, breaking seas at that.If you do take a 360, and make no mistake a-hull does not prevent that, well I'd rather be rolled up in a bunk down below than on deck.Active storm tecniques have gotten many good people hurt, including a Swedish couple I knew well. The same happened during the "Queens Birthday" storm of 94.Choppers picked folks up, abandoned their yachts form fear and exhaustion (I don't blame them the 'fear' part, been there)the yachts found later were fine after lyin a-hull through that ugly one, as they have been doing time, after time...Anything specific I'll be happy to reply Bob, Happy Holidays to you and your faminly.

 

[BobW]

Let's get the facts straight on Fastnet '79

There were 303 entries85 finished the race80 boats capsized, some more than once24 boats were abandoned5 of those sank19 abandoned boats were later recovered74 sailors were rescued by Royal Navy boats or helicopters15 sailors lost their livesThese are John Rousmaniere's numbers, not mine.And here is what he has to say about lying a-hull:'Practically speaking, what this means is that passive tactics (heaving to under storm sails or lying ahull under bare hulls) may not work early in the storm. Then, the boat probably would be safer running before the storm under bare poles with active steering, sailing fast enough to stay ahead of breakers and prevent being pooped, but not so fast that the boat broaches or pitchpoles.'And let's keep in mind that this opinion is from 25 years ago. (Probably around the time when you had your first experience with lying a-hull). Back when there were no parachute anchors, no Galeriders, no series drogues. The options were limited: heave to, run off, or lie a-hull. When you couldn't heave to or run off, all you had was lie a-hull.That's not the case today. If you doubt me, read this month's Cruising World - Beth Lonard explains it far better than I could hope to. (When I go cruising, I'll have both a Galerider and a Jordan series drogue..... as well as their massive Bruce anchor ;DAs for the Southern Ocean racers - why do you suppose they're down there? To SURF the waves we're talking about *yksENZA... ENZA....oh, you mean the maxi-cat renamed the Millenium Challenge and that sailed in The Race as Team Legato..... 92 feet long, 40 foot beam, held the Jules Verne trophy in 1997 while skippered by SIR Peter Blake. (tragically murdered in the Amazon while defending his boat from pirates).Yes, in 1994, they raced around the Southern Ocean against the trimaran Lyonnaise des Eaux Dumez, quite a trip, but no mention of 'lying a-hull' in the horrendous weather... they did stream warps during the last day (in the Englis Channel). The link is attached.Look at the picture attached... can you really think anybody contemplated lying a-hull in this boat??? I don't think it would take a 'breaking' wave to flip that monster... it's designed to pierce the waves and surf, not sit helplessly!!! Oh, yes, they had a crew of 8, all superb sailors, and yes, they did 'run off' for 74 days, not just 2 or 3, including continuous ice-watches in the bow for 11 days while they sailed below 60 degrees south in freezing conditions. Incredible bravery!I reviewed the analysis of the QB storm of '94 in the Tasman Sea (in 'Surviving the Storm') and did not find that ANY of the boats surveyed had voluntarily decided to lie a-hull. Of the boats lost:Woody Goose had steering, engine, navigation and electrical problems. She grounded and the skipper's wife was lost.Freya was lying to a sea anchor (off the bow) when the rode parted 10 ft from the boat. She was knocked down repeatedly and the the crew were rescued by helicopter at their request. The boat later grounded on the NZ coast.Salacia was run down by a freighter which may have been making a non-requested attempt to rescue them, which dis-masted their boat. During the rescue, Julie Black was tragically lost. The boat sank.I have been searching and have not found any corroboration for your lying a-hull opinion.I will return to my original premise: Storms are complex and there are many tactic to deal with them. It is not prudent to just decide to lie a-hull and go below to wait it out. I am worried that some novice sailors may get that idea from your first post. Will you please clarify?????Damn, this wine is good. Thank you, Capt Ron, for giving me cause to study these storms more closely.... I mean that Cheers,Bobs/v X SAIL R 8

 

[BobW]

Just kidding...... this is the real ENZA

or Millenium Challenge, or Team Legato.HeHeHe

 

[maddmike]

Read With Interest Points of View

Hopefully, I'm not putting my nose in where it is not wanted, but this has been my first opportunity to carefully read other folks point of view on this subject. Most of my experience was learned at the 'trial by fire' school of heavy weather boating & I would like to add a couple of observations.#1. My preferred method of riding out heavy conditions is (by far) to use a sea anchor. I use a 9' Para-tech which has proven adequate for my Mac 26X 'Zeno's Arrow'. I have found the main drawbacks/considerations when using a sea-anchor to be as follows:(1) Using it too early and having to spend the time & effort to get it back on board after only being deployed for a short period.(2) Using it too late & trying to get my bow to windward in a sea state that I would rather not have to come about in (a problem I have managed to resolve, but applies only to my specific boat type).(3) Dropping the sea-anchor and finding out that there is a strong current that runs 90 degrees to prevailing conditions. (learned this one the hard way off the west side of Vancouver Island on the way to Alaska).In less radical conditions I will often lock the wheel & backwind the Jib in order to go up on the foredeck to reef the main (I have a full batten 3 reef main)the boat remains quite stable this way, which is important for a solo sailor. However, on both occasions where I tried to 'balance the boat' ahull I was knocked down (once between Granada & Trinidad and once off Maricabo).Last point; regardless of what system you use, know your boat, practice your system over & over until you can do it in the dark & in your sleep, and above all try to not get yourself in a position where this practiced skill is actually needed.

 

[Franklin]

and....

even if they did decide to lie a-hull in that cat, with a beam of 40', if I'm not mistake, would take a breaking wave of over 40' to capsize it. Now if the beam were a mere 12.9 like mine...well...it doesn't anywhere near that. I still have to say that I like the feathering at 30 degrees better then anything except a sea anchor if you got one. When feathering, your heading into the waves and storm at 2-3 knots, which means your cutting down on the time your in the bad weather. Your also at the best angle (they say even with a sea anchor you want a little angle) for safety and damn near impossible to capsize at that angle. And your under control without much heel.I wish I could find the link now (I've been trying for two hours) but back in April I read an article on how to deal with a hurricane or tropical storm. The guy had a lot of logic behind his theory which was...you do different things depending on which quadrant of the storm you were in. If you were in quadrant I, you feathered because that was the safest. Another quadrant you ran so you wouldn't get sucked into the eye. Another you heaved to so you would be slowly and safely be pushed away from the storm (this was the backside). I really pisses me off that I can't find it. Of all the heave storm pieces I've read, his was the most logical. Point though is, there isn't just one method that works best for all situations. You got to know how to use them all.