Fitting jacklines with a pop top

srimes

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Jun 9, 2020
211
Macgregor 26D Brookings
Any advise on mounting jacklines on a boat with a pop top?I want them inboard as much as possible to keep me on the boat but there isn't much side deck to work with. Can they mount to the top itself, or would that not be strong enough?

The boat is an 89 Mac 26D, sailing off the Oregon coast.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
I don't think I would attach it to the pop top. Those are pretty flimsy. in fact unless you have it secured to the mast they wiggle all over the place and fall down. If it were me I would consider having one from the base of the mast up to the forward stay chain plate and I would consider doing something different in the cockpit. That would require you to move your harness from one location to the other when transiting to the front of the boat. If you are in conditions where you need that line you should probably have the pop top down and latched anyway. in that case you could reach over the pop top from the cockpit to attach your harness when you go forward.
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
734
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Any advise on mounting jacklines on a boat with a pop top?I want them inboard as much as possible to keep me on the boat but there isn't much side deck to work with. Can they mount to the top itself, or would that not be strong enough?

The boat is an 89 Mac 26D, sailing off the Oregon coast.
I my thoughts and installation (on a C-22) awhile back. I don't know how similar your Mac 26 layout might be, but perhaps that will prompt your thinking. We've been pretty happy with that system; we just disconnect the soft shackle at the forward pad eye to raise the pop-top.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,020
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ideas.
  1. Use two tethers. One attached on the JackLines as you move between cockpit and mast. And one waiting for you at the mast to move from mast to bow. Of course always hooking on before you release
  2. Ken is right you probably want the top down and secure
  3. Your attach points need to be solid. Your got to be able to trust them to hold you if you fall and become a weight the boat is dragging. Best is a pad eye with a strong backing plate thru bolted on a solid part of your deck.
  4. With the pop top there it might be to one side that you always use. As close to center as feasible
Check out the discussion on Morganscloud.com they have some free content and some paid. They have a pretty thorough write up of what and why. Also search the forum here on SBO. There are some great discussions on JackLines and how they are used on boats who venture onto unsettled seas.
 
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srimes

.
Jun 9, 2020
211
Macgregor 26D Brookings
Thanks ya'll! Yes the top will be closed and latched while sailing. Aaron your post is helpful, anchoring to the bulkhead and passing over the pop top look like a secure solution. Are you able to reach the bow with your jackline ending before the front hatch?

Here's what I've ordered for mounts, Harken high-load strap eyes. Strong, low-profile, and cheap.
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
734
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Are you able to reach the bow with your jackline ending before the front hatch?
Glad you found it helpful, and sorry I wasn't clear about the forward pad eye - it is mounted ~12" forward of the hatch, and about 36" aft of the forestay. So not all the way to the bow pulpit, but close enough to reach the bow easily (or even to reach out and work on the anchor or the bowsprit and its furler). I use a double-legged tether, so if I'm working at the bow, I'll sometimes clip the second leg into a pad eye there, leaving the other one clipped behind me.

Your layout will differ on a larger boat, but that one's worked for me. The kids have spent many hours up there on the bow, and we haven't lost one yet. :)

Edit to add that anyone sailing a small boat off our Oregon coast has my sincerest admiration! :clap:
 

srimes

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Jun 9, 2020
211
Macgregor 26D Brookings
Glad you found it helpful, and sorry I wasn't clear about the forward pad eye - it is mounted ~12" forward of the hatch, and about 36" aft of the forestay. So not all the way to the bow pulpit, but close enough to reach the bow easily (or even to reach out and work on the anchor or the bowsprit and its furler). I use a double-legged tether, so if I'm working at the bow, I'll sometimes clip the second leg into a pad eye there, leaving the other one clipped behind me.

Your layout will differ on a larger boat, but that one's worked for me. The kids have spent many hours up there on the bow, and we haven't lost one yet. :)

Edit to add that anyone sailing a small boat off our Oregon coast has my sincerest admiration! :clap:
Can you open the front hatch with the jacklines on? I'm looking at that spot but it looks like I'll lose hatch access.

Hello fellow Oregonian :cool:. I'm just out here having fun! :yeah:
Or maybe I just don't know better yet lol. Funny how the boat looks huge on the trailer but tiny in the water!
Only been out 3 times. 2nd time was last October with 25 knot winds and 8 ft waves according to the local buoy. Struggled to control the boat but we made it out and back! I only have the factory jib and a newer main w/ 2 reef points, think I need a smaller jib (65%-85%) and probably a storm jib too. Any advise on where to get sails? Working on a tight budget here...

btw it's currently 27kts/gusting to 35 right now. I need to learn to handle these types of conditions even if I don't seek them out, just in case I get caught out there. I wish there was a sailing club so I could find people to sail with and learn from.
 

AaronD

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Aug 10, 2014
734
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
Can you open the front hatch with the jacklines on? I'm looking at that spot but it looks like I'll lose hatch access.
No - to fully open the front hatch, we remove the soft shackle attaching the jacklines to that pad eye - it just takes a few seconds (I'm lazy and usually just leave them attached at the aft end and draped loosely near the mast). There's just enough slack in mine that I can crack the hatch an inch or so for ventilation (e.g. when lying down to sleep in the V-berth, having forgotten to remove the jacklines. Ask me how I know this... ;)).

But I wouldn't want the hatch open when sailing anyway; I figure the jacklines provide a little extra insurance backing up the 40-year-old hatch dogs holding it closed :)
 

srimes

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Jun 9, 2020
211
Macgregor 26D Brookings
No - to fully open the front hatch, we remove the soft shackle attaching the jacklines to that pad eye - it just takes a few seconds (I'm lazy and usually just leave them attached at the aft end and draped loosely near the mast). There's just enough slack in mine that I can crack the hatch an inch or so for ventilation (e.g. when lying down to sleep in the V-berth, having forgotten to remove the jacklines. Ask me how I know this... ;)).

But I wouldn't want the hatch open when sailing anyway; I figure the jacklines provide a little extra insurance backing up the 40-year-old hatch dogs holding it closed :)
OK cool. Time for me to learn to tie a soft shackle.
 
May 29, 2018
580
Canel 25 foot Shiogama, japan
Jack lines allow a certain amount of play (port to starboard) and on a small boat they are not practical (or safe ) in my opinion.
Short twin tethers ( as JSSailem has suggested)and solid clip on points in the cockpit will keep you there. One to prevent you going over the port side and other other for starboard.
Lines (halyards and reefing lines) led back to the cockpit and a roller furling headsail will reduce the need to leave the safety of the cockpit.
When or if you need to go forward, hang on because it is a 1000 foot drop. Clip on with a short tether, do what you have to do and HANG ON on the way back to the safety of the cockpit where you will be once more clipped in.

This system allows no false sense of safety.
You consciously unclip and you KNOW you are unclipped on the way forward and back.

I may be called out on this one, but that is the way that I do it on a 25 footer and I have tried jacklines.

gary
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,973
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
Has anyone ever setup a trapeze style safetyline? Maybe attached to a point just above and forward of the spreaders, come under the port or starboard spreader and attach to the boom, like a lazyjack. Hook on, in the cockpit and have access to the foredeck without adding slack as you work in the narrowing bow. Just a thought.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,020
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Harken high-load strap eyes. Strong, low-profile, and cheap.
I would not "TRUST MY LIFE" to those fasteners.

Here is what Harkin says about them...
"They form light-duty mounting bases for blocks, serve as lash-down points, and can be used for fairleads."​

I would suggest if you plan on heading out into the Pacific from Brookings you might consider a Wichard Drop forged stainless padeye. Folding pad eye - Dia 10 mm | Wichard Marine
  • Working load (kg)4080
  • Breaking load (kg)9000
In either the 8 or 10mm size with the backing plate. You can find them at Fisheries Supply in Seattle. They will ship to Brookings probably free. You can also explore the SBO shop here. They may also may have them.

It is not just about the "breaking load", it also is about having a large enough diameter on the fixture to accept the 1" wide jackline polyester webbing. Your webbing is going to bend over the hold you use to attach it. You want the attachment to be large enough to not bind. The strain should be placed across the whole webbing to spread the load.
Polyester Webbing
Polyester webbing offers many great features. Its ultra violet (UV) resistance is excellent making it the choice for outdoor applications. Additionally it has very low stretch, excellent abrasion resistance, great strength and does not absorb much water.​
That is what the commercial jacklines I bought are made out of. You can also buy the webbing and then make your own.

Good luck and be safe. You have some magnificent water to sail. It can get a bit bad tempered at times.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,696
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Smaller boats require a different approach than big boats. I've rigged a lot of jacklines, measured impact forces, and published the results. On small boats impact forces are pretty low. However, the jacklines end up being really short, from the front of the cockpit to 5-7 feet short of the bow, depending on deck hatches. Any longer and there are too many places to fall off. They run near the CL for the same reason. Dedicated anchor points are required, a good idea anyway. Then a pair of hard points in the cockpit secure that area; but keep them off the floor due to tripping problems.

To move to the bow you start with the 6' arm on the cockpit hard point. You clip the 3' leg to the windward jackline, then the 6' leg (both), then move forward along the jackline in a crouch or crawling. When you reach the end of the 3' leg, unclip staying on the 6' leg, and move forward until you can clip the bow rail with the 3' leg. You are never unclipped. You also never move from 6' radius to 6' radius hard point, which requires unclipping. I've done this when the bow was seriously playing submarine at over 8 knots to windward. It's really wet, but really secure. And you can reach the whole boat.

316 SS climbing bolt hangers make cheap ($7) strong jackline anchor points. Yes, they are intended and well-test for these forces. And any anchor is only as good as the backing plate. The World Sailing breaking strength (not working load) specification for jacklines is 4500 pounds. This is in line with rock climbing gear standards. Many people are switching from webbing to Amsteel because it stretches less and because it can be made over-strength and left rigged full time (do you want to be rigging jacklines just as it is getting dark or getting nasty--that is how mistakes happen). Some cover it with webbing for better footing.

It's awkward to move the length of the boat using only hard points, remembering that they must be within ~ 8 feet of each other (one long, one short). Or you can leave a fixed tether in place at the mast. But it can work.

Make sure the clips open wide enough to clip 1-inch railings. Kong and new Wichard do, old Spinlock and Old Wichard do not.

Many examples are possible. I use a variation of this on my Corsair F-24, with the jacklines rigged along the inside edge of the tramps. Very smooth. This also allows them to go just a little farther aft, so I can use them in the cockpit. Every boat is different. And just to point out the obvious, if you use and outboard, NO tether combination should allow you to hang over the transom! Just sayin'.

MacGregor 26D

Red lines are jackline range of movement
Blue lines are are point range of movement

 
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srimes

.
Jun 9, 2020
211
Macgregor 26D Brookings
Wow thank's ya'll for the great input! I put on my vest(mustang) and tether (kong) and crawled over the boat. Ideally the lines would keep me from going over the side but that doesn't seem possible at the bow. I'll have the jacklines attache just aft of the hatch as I can reach the bow with the 6' tether from there using the procedure thinwater described. I may need to add some grab rails too. Sticking with hanks as they're reliable and plenty of solo ocean racers use them!

In the cockpit I'll put a short line down the center of the sole, as this allows me to go the full length of the cockpit on the 3' tether, which keeps me from going over the side. Having to move clip points just to get around the cockpit isn't an option for singlehanding, and a fixed point with long enough tether to reach both ends would allow me to go in the water.

I'm using 1/4" dyneema (winch line, 7,500 lb rating). I plan to leave it rigged all the time. The strap eyes are rated at 6,000 lb so I'm not worried about that. My concern with them is they're stamped and the edges don't have a great radius, which isn't ideal for rope. I hit them with a small sanding drum and will use a chaff sleeve where the dyneema attaches.

I've got work to do!
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,973
O'Day Mariner 19 Littleton, NH
I'll have the jacklines attache just aft of the hatch as I can reach the bow with the 6' tether from there
It wouldn't help to set that up for the three foot tether in the bow?

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Attach points are easy on the 26d. The bolt the mast pivots on then raising the mast and the second hole in the forward chain plate (also used for raising the mast. The forward hatch will be down when configured to need the jackline.
 

jssailem

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
Oct 22, 2014
23,020
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@srimes
I saw this link in my email this am.
Reassessing Clip-In Location Points
Continue Reading
from Practical Sailor. It may help you in your setting up of your jacklines.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
@srimes
I saw this link in my email this am.
Reassessing Clip-In Location Points
Continue Reading
from Practical Sailor. It may help you in your setting up of your jacklines.
Interesting paper. The issue with the Mac26D is the whole boat is just over 2,200 pounds plus the water ballast (another 1,200?) You would be hard pressed to find hard points capible of 4,500 pounds. That's why I suggested using the mast pivot bolt and the forward chain plate. Easy access and you don't need to re-engineer structure.

Ken