First time buyer

There and back again · Aug 24, 2014

Rwrohlfs said:
I have had and still have a sailboat and and more motor boats than I care to remember. It seems that a motorboat is nothing more than a tool that allows us to enjoy an activity such as fishing, tubing, or water skiing while a sailboat has a spirit and character that a person can enjoy just sitting in at the dock let alone silently sliding across the water on the breath of Mother Nature!

For some reason, I have had more people in their motorboats approach me to ask questions about Sailing. Fuel and Maintenance being to large factors. They seem to understand that there is something therapeutic about being on the water but become discouraged when they are constantly refueling their boats. On more than a few occasions I've had people tell me that they will spend $100 or more in fuel just to pull their kids around the lake in a tube. I try to reply with as little sarcasm as possible that "the wind is free".

A couple of weeks ago, while on a very casual broad reach, a fisherman in a very expensive aluminum fishing boat went trolling by my Port side. He calmly stated, "Wherever you're headed, it's gonna take you a while to get there." I looked around at the postcard like scenery of the shoreline of my Pacific Northwest Lake, and pondered where I was "Heading". I replied to the Fisherman, "I am already there!"

Regardless of the destination, I find that Sailing is very much about just enjoying the present moment. I could be mistaken, I've never owned a motorboat, but it seems to me, that Sailing is a much more therapeutic activity...

I come for the world of Aviation and have only been Sailing for about three years now, my first boat a C-Lark 14 was a fine little boat but after one season, I sold it to buy my current Catalina 14.2. I have discovered that a lot of theory and basic principles of Flight correlates with Sailing, and in a way, my little Catalina has been a great Primary Trainer for me. I am almost certain that I will be moving up to a Catalina 22, possibly an 18 but more than likely a 22 for the se reasons that all of the good folks here have stated. The fact that there are so many 22's out on the water and the readily available supply of parts and also equally important, the collective knowledge and support of this group here on the forum. I feel very confident that a C22 would be a fine choice for a Sailboat!

South Sagle Jim · Aug 27, 2014

Hey tcat. That Texas boat deserves a hard look at that price with a motor.

CaptDon01 · Aug 28, 2014

T_Cat,

Check Craigslist, there is a 75 C-22 here in San Diego that is about to be given to charity, don't know if it has a trailer, but I've done pretty well finding C-22's there.

Reno Craigslist always seems to have C-22's listed.

Don

jwing · Aug 28, 2014

Yes, that Cat22 in Texas looks like a deal many people would jump on very quickly. In my area it wouldn't be for sale more than 2 days at that price.

Can I plant a bug in your ear, Mr. T_Cat? What if you found a similar deal for a similar boat made by a different manufacturer? Would you pass it by because it was not a Cat22? When I was boat shopping, I came to the conclusion that regardless of the manufacturer, the low-20-foot "pocket cruisers" have more similarities than differences. The major differences are mostly influenced by previous owners, the most significant being the condition of the boat. What I'm suggesting is you shouldn't lock yourself into one particular model (unless you want to get involved in one design racing). Instead, search for a boat that has been well-kept and is available at a fair price. You are more likely to have success from now until before it starts getting warm next spring. The last thing you want is to buy a project boat in the spring, then spend all summer working on it instead of sailing it.

While you are looking, you should be reading a good book on surveying sailboats.

South Sagle Jim · Aug 28, 2014

Surveying books

jwing said:
Yes, that Cat22 in Texas looks like a deal many people would jump on very quickly. In my area it wouldn't be for sale more than 2 days at that price.

Can I plant a bug in your ear, Mr. T_Cat? What if you found a similar deal for a similar boat made by a different manufacturer? Would you pass it by because it was not a Cat22? When I was boat shopping, I came to the conclusion that regardless of the manufacturer, the low-20-foot "pocket cruisers" have more similarities than differences. The major differences are mostly influenced by previous owners, the most significant being the condition of the boat. What I'm suggesting is you shouldn't lock yourself into one particular model (unless you want to get involved in one design racing). Instead, search for a boat that has been well-kept and is available at a fair price. You are more likely to have success from now until before it starts getting warm next spring. The last thing you want is to buy a project boat in the spring, then spend all summer working on it instead of sailing it.

While you are looking, you should be reading a good book on surveying sailboats.

Can anyone suggest a good book on surveying? Does the Don Casey book on old boats qualify?

jwing · Aug 28, 2014

I like Don Casey's Inspecting the Aging Sailboat and Surveying Fiberglass Sailboats: A Step-by-Step Guide for Buyers and Owners by Henry Mustin.

I haven't read This Old Boat.

Stu Jackson · Aug 28, 2014

South Sagle Jim said:
Can anyone suggest a good book on surveying? Does the Don Casey book on old boats qualify?

The Casey book is great, but save some $$ and read this (same stuff

):

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541

We had a C22 for many years, loved that boat.

South Sagle Jim · Aug 28, 2014

Thanks for the survey references

jmczzz · Aug 28, 2014

That's a nice looking motor boat. Did you do work on it? I am little confused as to how much you plan to spend on a sailboat. With a budget of low to mid 20s I would be looking for a blue water passage maker. Or are you looking for a newer boat than the 72 mentioned. For that budget I believe you should find a C 22 from the last years of production that would be in near perfect condition. I believe a C22 with no major problems ready to sail could be had for 2 to 5 k even out there on the left coast. There are lots of them around the Gulf Coast and Fla, that look good in that price range. I bought a 72 in MD for $400. cash that I brought home and put in the local lake with out having to do any major work. I did have to build a trailer for it based on a good MAC 26 trailer, (total $ 800.) And drove 1011 miles to pick it up. The gas cost as much as the boat. If you are gonna do most deep water sailing a fixed keel might be a better fit. I had an O'Day 23 fixed keel on the Gulf Coast that was easier to deal with than the C 22 swing keel but it would be a problem up here on the lake. Again I suggest you discuss your visions for where and how you plan to sail. That is the most important factor in choosing, (my unsolicited opinion).
I envy you with your kids to sail with (mine lost interest when they got grown) ya'll (southern speak) will have a blast.
Good luck, James

South Sagle Jim · Aug 28, 2014

T_Cat said:
Sorry for the confusion. My budget is 5-6k complete on a 20-25 ft trailer sailer. I will be using it in the abundance of lakes and reservoirs in the central California area. And yes we are in the middle of the worst drought in years. My ideal find would be a early 70's to 84 c-22. I don't like the newer versions because I dig the dinette and sliding galley. I want to weekend at the lake with sailing during the day with stops for swimming. Anchoring in a cove and going ashore to explore.
Dinner and star watching and a repeat the next day. A early 80's turn key for 5k would be fine but 2-2.5k for boat and trailer with the extra for the restore would be fine also. I did all the work on my 65 except engine repairs so I'm not opposed to work.
T_Cat

I suggest patience. Rent a daysailer until the boat you want comes along. I got a solid Cat 22 for $1800 (no motor) but with excellent trailer. So deals do arise. Watching craigslist is a great way to find the bargains as most who are selling might put the ad many places but they gotta do craiglist to be serious.

jmczzz · Aug 28, 2014

Sounds like you have thought it through pretty well. My 72 has some minuses I plan on correcting:
Some times fuel smell from external gas tank compartment, needs closing off the tank area from the cabin.
No sliding galley came with the boat, guess the p.o. ditched it as was the fashion some time ago. I have looked at several on this forum and will build asap.
Keel mounts were installed upside down, they are newish but I'll replace correctly this winter when I haul her out.
Bottom was repainted without hull being faired out, these 2 items should keep me out of the beer joints all winter.
Did not come with a standard 110% jib just a 130 - 35 genny and a main both are good but I prefer to sail a little flatter with a working jib. No storm sail, only 1 reef point in main, I prefer 2 reef points in main and 1 in the jib and a storm sail, always prudent to reef down at first sign of heavier weather before it hits you, and be quick to go two reefs and storm jib long before its necessary, especially with your precious passengers on board.
No pop top, ok with me and Ms. but you might want to consider as it makes the cabin seem more spacious for a family. and give more stand up room. However, I had a mac pop top and it let in more bugs, so a screen was required.
Check out the wiring and battery set up. should look neat (wires tied in bundles, connection blocks mounted, battery in a box and secured with a strap. The new trend is to have 2 6 volt deep cycle batteries. They charge and discharge more evenly, give longer service time etc. Some like to locate them under the v berth. My boat has only 1 12 volt under aft port settee. bad balance.
Also the keel lock is missing, many will say it's not needed but if you have ever been knocked down you might disagree. But, if you heed the above reefing etc above some say you will avoid the need.
I like being able to go right up to the bank with the C 22 & keel up. couldn't do that in a fixed keel boat.
My choice was the early C 22 for reasons already mentioned. I am really happy with the boat and the Ms and I have already spent pleasant days (and nights) on her.
I agree with your plan and think a =>86 c 22 would be a good choice for you.
regards, James

jwing · Aug 29, 2014

T_Cat said:
...Cat-22's are much easier to find for sale and have readily available parts and forum support...(Please no gas boat bashing)

In my estimation, those are three important factors, for sure. I was surprised to learn how valuable a good users' association is. I imagine the C22 group is a good one, but I can tell you for sure the Mariner Class Association is superb. The Mariner, however, does not meet your criteria.

CaptDon01 · Aug 29, 2014

T_Cat,

You should be able to find a second generation, also refered to as the "New Design", in that price range. These were built from 1986 models to 1994. The wing keel was offered as an option around 1988 I believe. These still have the dinette, and a new designed galley system, which is also about as useless as any of the C-22 galley's in my opinion,(removed the slide-out galley in our MK-II also). Catalina made many improvements with these over the original design, including a much better V-berth arrangement for Mom and Dad. The wing keel versions only draw slightly more water than the swing keels versions with the keel pulled up.

Few boats, and even fewer pocket cruisers, have the resourses of a National Association as the C-22 either. Check out the National C-22 web site and check out our bi-monthy publication, the MainBrace. Plus the Fleets and activities all over the country.

Don

CaptDon01 · Aug 29, 2014

T_Cat,

I attached some photos of our "New Design" C-22, (we have 2- C-22's, yes, I have a problem

). As you can see, there is a nice hatch right above the V-berth, (on our 1988 model, this is tinted plexaglass), and with the re-designed cabin top, much more room in the V-berth. :dance: You can also see the similar interior to the original boats with the dinette. They also have a very large anchor locker in the bow, and a proper fuel locker in the cockpit to eliminate fuel smells in the cabin, and just a much safer design. Now historically they are heavier than the original design boats, so they don't usually see them in the serious races. In my opinion,(and I have many), cleaned up and decked out, they are the prettiest of the C-22 models.

Don

First time buyer

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