First time boat owner seeks advice

njlarry · Sep 29, 2014

I love the 28. Sailed one for two years. It is a good size and easy to handle. The head goes the width of the boat so the shower is a comfortable size. I also like the traditional look above the waterline and the performance design under the waterline. Stable and well built, your family will have many hours of fun. The 28 came with either a fixed keel or a centerboard keel. Both are stable and shallow enough for most waters.
As all boats of that age, check for soft spots on the deck, which seems to be the most common problem and secondly rudder and engine issues. Hull and keel problems are rare.
Let us know if you buy her. A survey will find most problems and you'll likely need one to insure it anyway.

njlarry · Sep 29, 2014

ps just noticed your location, if you do need a survey I found a great one in Mass who surveyed a boat for me that was so complete I brought the boat unseen and it was evertyhing he described both when it showed up in my driveway and when used.

Coyote · Sep 30, 2014

WELCOME --- this forum is an OUSTANDING resource -- what year is the Oday you are considering??? we bought an '85 28 a few months ago, did a bit of restore and refresh, and it's a GREAT, fun, SAFE boat --- as I had read in my research " the biggest small boat you've ever been on, and the smallest big boat you've been on" the boat is VERY WELL reviewed.
I would be concerned about how long it has been sitting - had the previous owner employed a diver? A survey would certainly be in order,,, even at a good deal, inexpensive purchase price, repairing and replacing items on a 30 +/- year old sailboat WILL BE EXPENSIVE - especially around the deck, bulkheads, rigging, engine, and sails

let me know if I can be of assistance -

cheers,
Coyote

Sefuller · Sep 30, 2014

We have had an O'day 25 and now a 34, both great boats, however you should hire a surveyor for sure - one thing to definitely check for is wet core in the decks and cabin top. We got a great deal on our 34 because of moisture in the core, and I have been working on replacing it over the last couple of winters. I scraped the entire bottom of our 34 down to the gelcoat and did not find a single blister. They are very nice family cruisers.

Picflight · Sep 30, 2014

First boat is always more intimidating. You keeping asking yourself do I really want to get into this unknown.
Do your homework, run the numbers against your monthly budget and then run the numbers again. Get the survey.

Plan the time, work, family, recreation, plan it well. If it clicks after this, go for it, you only live once.

tcwaltz · Oct 1, 2014

I own a 1982 28 with a Shoal Draft. This boat has had about 4 owners as best I can tell from the documents that I have. Its an excellent 1st boat and great for a family. Its amazingly spacious inside for a 28' boat and I have friends who are in the 6' range who can stand up inside without much difficulty. My wife and I are of average height and can sleep in the v-birth comfortably. The Previous Owner made quite a few mods to the boat and from what I've been told it was raced from time to time as well. The only real issues that I've run into with my are a little soft core, some topside leaks and most recently a some small blisters below the waterline. I do have some bulging on the port deck where the shroud lines go into the deck. This does not seem to be uncommon or affect the performance of my boat. I suspect its from the PO who raced it putting pressure on the mast because I have a rig on the split backstay that allows them to bend the mast. My traveler has been moved from the cockpit to above the salon. It works fine and two winches were added there as well. This is one of the areas I had soft core in because things were not properly bedded. I removed the winches, cleaned out the soft core, put 1/2" fiberglass rod where the bolt holes were, filled the void with epoxy, then re-drilled and mounted the winch again. Everything is solid as a rock. My ports were leaking and I replaced them as well. I've removed the teak hand rails on deck and replaced them with a stainless steel arrangement that allowed me to leave the teak rail inside. Works far better than the original and no refinishing required.
My boat has a full Bimini and dodger as well as large solar panel. All if this is possible because the traveler was moved out of the cockpit. I have had the boat for about 6 years and just put it on the hard for the first time since I've had it. Bottom paint was surprisingly functional. Its got alot of coats on there. I have had about 30 small dime sized blisters that I've opened up. There is a lot of gel coat on the bottom of this boat and I was surprised that in those blisters were only into the gel coat. I only had two that had really penetrated the first layer of glass mesh. overall, given its age its not much of a big deal. I have one area where there is a bunch of this going on. I nearly have that entire repair done (going today to fair it out and do a final sand before bottom paint).
The previous owner replaced the engine. I now have a Yanmar 2GM20f in mine. I just recently replaced the 2 blade prop with a 3 blade Campbell Sailor. That was the best investment I have ever made, performance is night and day different.

As many have said above, have it checked out. I know that my boat was neglected quite a bit before I got it and I couldn't afford to do all the things I'm doing to mine now until this year but given its age and minimal maintenance its received in the last 10 years its held up quite well. This boat has been in Florida for most of its life and it never comes out of the water. From what I've been told its sailed all over the gulf of mexico, the Bahama's and as far as St. Thomas. You are looking at a good boat.

Panta Rei · Oct 1, 2014

I'm going to give you some opinions that clearly differ from those offered to date. This does not mean I'm right they are wrong, it's just a different way of looking at it. The right answer is what is comfortable for you.

You ARE buying a money pit. It's a 30 some year old boat. It is a money pit by definition. How reliable would you think a 1980's chevy Nova or Monza that's been parked in a field for a few years would be. You must plan on putting some money into it.

I'm assuming you are buying this boat for about $5000 and there are no up to date electronics on board.

Survey: Survey's are for bankers. You would be better off finding someone nearby who is familiar with the boat. Most marinas have a few go to guys that would be happy to help you out. The money you spend on a survey can actually fix many of the issues you and others would find.

Make a purchase pending your inspection. The seller should pay to have the boat hauled.

Soft deck. Walk on it a thump it with a mallet. check around hardware. You will not likely repair a soft deck.(it's a major refurb project) You must decide if you can live with it. Check the stanchions to be sure they mounted solid.

Deck leaks into cabin. You should see signs of this. Better yet check out the boat on a rainy day or hose it down. Check for water stains on hull liner and on the bottom of the bulkheads.

Sails: take them to a sail loft and get a price on repairs and opinion as to value. This should not cost you a dime. This is important because there are attachment points that are necessary and are not obvious to non sailors. Be nice to this guy and give him some business. You can then call him when you have questions.

If things are looking good so far:
Make a deal with a diesel mechanic. Ask for a quote to get the drive system in good working order. Have him check the engine, transmission , stuffing box, cutlass bearing etc. Draw fuel out of the bottom of the tank. look for water (or just plan on pumping everything out of the tank). Have the mechanic do this if you can't. Have him change the oil , oil filter , fuel filters and bleed the system. WATCH HIM DO THIS!!! This should cost you $100 to $200 since (besides the oil and filter change)he is really just giving you a quote for what he feels it needs. You are now building a relationship with someone who will get to know your boat and actually be able to fix it. As opposed to a surveyor who will point to the fine print and the bottom of the survey results. Plan on paying him to align the engine transmission once you put the boat back in the water(next year) $100 to $150

Blisters and condition of the bottom. Don't buy the boat until you see the bottom out of the water. Look for blisters. Go to the service guy at the marina and get a quote to clean-up the bottom if it looks like years of growth. (it likely will) Try to wiggle the rudder.

Most importantly, you must decide if you want a nice 30 year old boat that is safe , sails well but looks like a 30 year old boat or do you want to restore it so it looks like a new boat . If it's the later go buy a new Hunter, you don't sound like someone that is looking for a two or three year project.

Once you buy it, get the boat on dry land and cover it. Let it dry out and start working on your to do list.

Panta Rei · Oct 1, 2014

Panta Rei said:
I'm going to give you some opinions that clearly differ from those offered to date. This does not mean I'm right they are wrong, it's just a different way of looking at it. The right answer is what is comfortable for you.

You ARE buying a money pit. It's a 30 some year old boat. It is a money pit by definition. How reliable would you think a 1980's chevy Nova or Monza that's been parked in a field for a few years would be. You must plan on putting some money into it.

I'm assuming you are buying this boat for about $5000 and there are no up to date electronics on board.

Survey: Survey's are for bankers. You would be better off finding someone nearby who is familiar with the boat. Most marinas have a few go to guys that would be happy to help you out. The money you spend on a survey can actually fix many of the issues you and others would find.

Make a purchase pending your inspection. The seller should pay to have the boat hauled.

Soft deck. Walk on it a thump it with a mallet. check around hardware. You will not likely repair a soft deck.(it's a major refurb project) You must decide if you can live with it. Check the stanchions to be sure they mounted solid.

Deck leaks into cabin. You should see signs of this. Better yet check out the boat on a rainy day or hose it down. Check for water stains on hull liner and on the bottom of the bulkheads.

Sails: take them to a sail loft and get a price on repairs and opinion as to value. This should not cost you a dime. This is important because there are attachment points that are necessary and are not obvious to non sailors. Be nice to this guy and give him some business. You can then call him when you have questions.

If things are looking good so far:
Make a deal with a diesel mechanic. Ask for a quote to get the drive system in good working order. Have him check the engine, transmission , stuffing box, cutlass bearing etc. Draw fuel out of the bottom of the tank. look for water (or just plan on pumping everything out of the tank). Have the mechanic do this if you can't. Have him change the oil , oil filter , fuel filters and bleed the system. WATCH HIM DO THIS!!! This should cost you $100 to $200 since (besides the oil and filter change)he is really just giving you a quote for what he feels it needs. You are now building a relationship with someone who will get to know your boat and actually be able to fix it. As opposed to a surveyor who will point to the fine print and the bottom of the survey results. Plan on paying him to align the engine transmission once you put the boat back in the water(next year) $100 to $150

Blisters and condition of the bottom. Don't buy the boat until you see the bottom out of the water. Look for blisters. Go to the service guy at the marina and get a quote to clean-up the bottom if it looks like years of growth. (it likely will) Try to wiggle the rudder.

Most importantly, you must decide if you want a nice 30 year old boat that is safe , sails well but looks like a 30 year old boat or do you want to restore it so it looks like a new boat . If it's the later go buy a new Hunter, you don't sound like someone that is looking for a two or three year project.

Once you buy it, get the boat on dry land and cover it. Let it dry out and start working on your to do list.

I just got an ear full from one of the O'day forums regulars via email. I guess I was not completely clear. I'll try it again.

In my opinion, this is not a starter boat. This boat is ideal for someone who wants to ship to his back yard and refurb. Maybe get lucky and it does not need much work.

My ideal starter boat is purchased from a guy in the marina that bought a bigger boat or a power boat. The seller will be around to answer questions and go out on the first few sails. He is well known and everyone knows how well he maintains his boat. A survey is a great idea here so both parties can blame the surveyor if the engine blows up leaving the harbor on the maiden Voyage.

My guess is that this boat is going to need work so my thought is to go right at it and avoid the cost of the survey. The new owner is going to need someone to lean on. Again, avoid the cost of the survey and get friendly with a mechanic, sail loft, and service manager. Plan on a lot of sweat equity.

I hope this get's me out of the dog house.

USY27 · Oct 1, 2014

I'll chime in with my own 2c worth. My first boat, a 27 footer with ancient Volvo MD5A, was probably in much worse shape than the OP describes this O28. But this was precisely what I wanted. The reason being, prior to that purchase I spent about 5-7 seasons sailing at the local charter type sailing club where you'd just get the boat for day sails or sometimes for a weekend or even a week long cruise and all the issues which would come up were club owner's headache. Thus in all those years I never learned much as far as boat maintenance, repairs, reliability of components etc were concerned. And when something came up during one such week long trip all of us on board (club sailors for years) were totally clueless. Luckily I and another guy who was also mechanically inclined found and solved the problem - a stuck fuel control lever at the engine but it could've been ugly. At least for that engine. Anyway, as my goal was to learn and later to take my boat places which require dickering around with the boat, any boat, I decided to get a "project boat" that I could learn from even if it meant I might not to get to sail her much. After a year of working on it, not constantly but on available days and weekends at leisurely pace, I learned as much and may be more as I would have learned had I continued being a club member for the next 30 years. Not to mention all the $$ I am currently saving on my 36 footer knowing what I know after working on that first boat. And since there is no equivalent of AAA beyond the limited range of SeaTow nor are their services very affordable in most circumstances I do think that the first boat can and should be something one learns from and can use later on a bigger and nicer boat. Very few newbies I know can afford to have their first boat new or reasonably newish and IMO any boat over 10-15 years old has pretty much a standard list of issues or potential issues and has to have extensive refits to bring her up to par for any sailing other than sight of land day sails. And yes the boat is not like a car which can be driven for years without much service other than regular oil changes and brake jobs. And even when new a boat is just as hungry money pit as an old one. May be even more since one is so invested that one wants to keep his or her investment above water at all costs where as with a $3-5,000 boat one can say after a frustrating year or two of ownership "screw it, I give up" and still be ahead of the sailing club fees for same period of time.

Panta Rei · Oct 1, 2014

USY27 said:
I'll chime in with my own 2c worth. My first boat, a 27 footer with ancient Volvo MD5A, was probably in much worse shape than the OP describes this O28. But this was precisely what I wanted. The reason being, prior to that purchase I spent about 5-7 seasons sailing at the local charter type sailing club where you'd just get the boat for day sails or sometimes for a weekend or even a week long cruise and all the issues which would come up were club owner's headache. Thus in all those years I never learned much as far as boat maintenance, repairs, reliability of components etc were concerned. And when something came up during one such week long trip all of us on board (club sailors for years) were totally clueless. Luckily I and another guy who was also mechanically inclined found and solved the problem - a stuck fuel control lever at the engine but it could've been ugly. At least for that engine. Anyway, as my goal was to learn and later to take my boat places which require dickering around with the boat, any boat, I decided to get a "project boat" that I could learn from even if it meant I might not to get to sail her much. After a year of working on it, not constantly but on available days and weekends at leisurely pace, I learned as much and may be more as I would have learned had I continued being a club member for the next 30 years. Not to mention all the $$ I am currently saving on my 36 footer knowing what I know after working on that first boat. And since there is no equivalent of AAA beyond the limited range of SeaTow nor are their services very affordable in most circumstances I do think that the first boat can and should be something one learns from and can use later on a bigger and nicer boat. Very few newbies I know can afford to have their first boat new or reasonably newish and IMO any boat over 10-15 years old has pretty much a standard list of issues or potential issues and has to have extensive refits to bring her up to par for any sailing other than sight of land day sails. And yes the boat is not like a car which can be driven for years without much service other than regular oil changes and brake jobs. And even when new a boat is just as hungry money pit as an old one. May be even more since one is so invested that 3one wants to keep his or her investment above water at all costs where as with a $3-5,000 boat one can say after a frustrating year or two of ownership "screw it, I give up" and still be ahead of the sailing club fees for same period of time.

We are two of a kind. My first boat was an oday 22 that sat in a field full of water for two years. Which reminds me I have to sell it.

Stu Jackson · Oct 1, 2014

USY27 said:
1. Thus in all those years I never learned much as far as boat maintenance, repairs, reliability of components etc were concerned. And when something came up during one such week long trip all of us on board (club sailors for years) were totally clueless. Luckily I and another guy who was also mechanically inclined found and solved the problem

2. Anyway, as my goal was to learn and later to take my boat places which require dickering around with the boat, any boat, I decided to get a "project boat" that I could learn from even if it meant I might not to get to sail her much. After a year of working on it, not constantly but on available days and weekends at leisurely pace, I learned as much and may be more as I would have learned had I continued being a club member for the next 30 years.

3. Not to mention all the $$ I am currently saving on my 36 footer knowing what I know after working on that first boat. And since there is no equivalent of AAA beyond the limited range of SeaTow nor are their services very affordable in most circumstances I do think that the first boat can and should be something one learns from and can use later on a bigger and nicer boat.

4. Very few newbies I know can afford to have their first boat new or reasonably newish and IMO any boat over 10-15 years old has pretty much a standard list of issues or potential issues and has to have extensive refits to bring her up to par for any sailing other than sight of land day sails.

1. Very true, also the same with charter bareboat experiences I've had.

2. Hands-on sure is helpful. I always think of it as a SAFETY issue.

3. Absolutely, see #2.

4. So true, too. Whenever someones asks the proverbial question: "What should I look for in this particular model?" I always reply that most boats are pretty similar. A chainplate leak on a Mark I C34 will have a very different result than say the same leak from the portside chainplate leak on a Mark I Catalina 36, because the C36 chainplate is secured down below by the port bulkhead and a leak can ruin the wood down below. Otherwise, though, a chainplate leak is a chainplate leak, and chainplates are rarely something too many skippers think of a BASIC MAINTENANCE.

I send them to this thread: http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=102541

Learning about boating systems is a basic safety issue.

Oh, one other thing: how easy is it to find and access your dipstick?!?

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Stu Jackson · Oct 1, 2014

Rebed your chainplates.

tcwaltz · Oct 1, 2014

Looks pretty typical actually. ONe thing I ran into was my ports on both sides were leaking. They were 30 years old and the seals were worn out, plus there was motion from the outside of the boat to the liner inside. I bought new ports from Beckson (blems) for 35 bux each, got screens and haven't had a leak since. Now, one thing that I did do was shoot great stuff foam into the gap between the salon and the liner. I then ground out a half each of the foam and filled the gap with epoxy. Now, when I bedded the ports in I didn't have motion between the outside and the liner and they don't leak anymore

I had a double leaking problem with mine. Gasket from the port leaked and water was infiltrating from the outside, leaking down the liner and coming out on the cloth on the inside of the hull. That moisture you see is likely water leaking from the port down the liner, it will go all over. Not sure what your temperature is where the boat is, but you do get moisture behind the cushions somewhat when you have temperature differentials. When you are in the boat most of what you are seeing is below the waterline. Especially the cushions at the settee. I freaked out when I pulled my boat out of the water. Its not had a bottom job in the 6 years that I'd had it. I get the bottom done every couple months and zincs swapped. I didn't have alot of growth and there was still ablative paint coming off when they pressure washed it. Of course I think there is like 4 colors of bottom paint on this thing. I complete freaked out at the blisters until I read about them and work them up myself. AGain, most of mine are simply through the gelcoat. I finished epoxying them in today. Will sand tomorrow, then I'm going to roll and tip the hull, get the bottom done and go sailing.

The one thing I did have to do was replace some thru hulls. The head valve was corroded open and the once we got it off we couldn't get the lock nut for the overboard thru hull off. Had to cut it off and replace it. One thing to check is pull the cushions out of the v birth, take the lid off and look at the holding tank and valves to see what you have. Also check for moisture as you can get leaks at the bow pulput if someone ran it into something (mine had been) re bedded it and its dry now.

Sefuller · Oct 1, 2014

jvelky said:
So I went to the boat today to get a better look as it has been raining for two days. I will attach pictures also. It appears the the windows on port side are leaking and dripping into the cabin. There appears to br old call on outside of each window. But more importantly the port side wall of the cabin is damp and one cushion was soaked also water damage can be seen on the wall separating the has from the cabin. It appears that the water is running down underneath the plate that holds the rigging to the deck forgive me for not knowing the proper terminology. Deck is not soft however but there is considerable moisster behind the fabric on the port side wall behind the cushion. Repairing windows doesn't scare me but the moister behind the cushions does. See attached photos
Any opinions?

View attachment 80634

My opinion is that a few hundred dollars for a good survey would be the best investment you could make at this point. It's anyone's guess as to how much moisture is in the deck - the leaks you've shown us on the inside could have saturated the core, or only affected a small area - who knows? Unless you are familiar with diesel engines and the boat's drivetrain, hiring a surveyor would again be prudent. Unless you can look at the running and standing rigging and make an assessment as to whether they are serviceable or in need of imminent replacement, a good surveyor would be a good investment. When we bought our 25, I did not have a survey done because I have enough mechanical aptitude that I was not afraid of tackling most repairs that boat may have required without being overwhelmed. When we bought our 34, I did have a survey done because the purchase price was higher and I wanted a comprehensive list of any issues the boat had. The survey not only gave me good bargaining power on the price, but also a to-do list that I was able to use to map out a long term plan of repairs and upgrades.

As to your earlier comment about bottom scraping and painting - typically bottom paint will be an every season or two job depending on where you are and what kind of paint you use. I only scraped mine to get rid of 20+ years of accumulated paint so I could start fresh with VC17 since we are in fresh water. Both bottom scraping should you choose to, and bottom painting are certainly well within the realm of most folk's abilities. Scraping is tedious and takes a long time. Applying bottom paint each spring takes me about 45 minutes - an hour.

The reality is unless you are going to spend a much larger sum of money, any boat you buy is going to be in need of maintenance and upgrades. As others have stated, the O'day's are great family boats, friendly for beginners, but still satisfying for more experience sailors as well.

Scott

Sefuller · Oct 1, 2014

I will second the point about the gaskets on the ports - I replaced all of mine two years ago - they were all flattened and hard.

First time boat owner seeks advice

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