I went for my 1st sail in the used 170. Wind was 8K-10K on a small lake in California. She moves along nicely with full sails. The new rudder from Hunter owners was great, very little pressure with those winds. I purchased a Hidea 2.5 2012 brand new. It came in the box no shipping, no tax for $449 on E-Bay. It fits nice and is 37lbs. 4-stroke . It started out of the box on the 2nd pull! I am getting ready for this summer at Lake Tahoe to turn the Grand Girls (5 granddaughters) into sailors.