Finishing sole - top only or top and bottom?

[wdonovan]

Finishing cabin sole on light duty cruiser (Hunter 310). Will use man of war. Question is do I seal underside or just topside? Bilge gets wet so Im not sure if finishing underside will help trap water in wood? Or just the opposite? Top wil get coats wiped not brushed basically to keep the wood from absorbing dirt (again).

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Sealing the under-side will help preserve the wood and protect from moisture. Sealing the up- side protects it from abrasion.

I might be wrong but think Hunter used marine ply with a teak and holly veneer which makes sealing the under-side more important than solid teak

 

[smokey73]

Getting ready to tackle that job myself. I've heard of some people sealing the underside and edges with clear resin and then finishing the topside conventionally with some type of varnish. Does anyone know what Hunter did for the top finish? I've found a source for 3/4 inch marine plywood with teak and holly veneer. Too expensive to mess up so looking for knowledge and experience in this job too.

 

[dlochner]

As Don says, seal both sides and especially the edges. Solid teak soles are very rare in production boats, most are teak veneer that is very thin, less than 1/16".

 

[Sailfanatic]

If you want this to be the forever cabins sole for that boat, seal all four sides of each piece with 4-5 coats epoxy, then finish the top surfaces with 3-4 coats of marine varnish. You may need to trim the edges a few mm to allow for the epoxy buildup. 3/4" may be a bit thick for a sole, you might want to confirm what is presently in use if you have not done so.

 

[smokey73]

You may need to trim the edges a few mm to allow for the epoxy buildup. 3/4" may be a bit thick for a sole, you might want to confirm what is presently in use if you have not done so.

Thanks for the tip on allowing for buildup of the resin. I'll check again (measure twice, cut once) but I measured it at 3/4" and will be sure before I order

 

[dlochner]

Thanks for the tip on allowing for buildup of the resin. I'll check again (measure twice, cut once) but I measured it at 3/4" and will be sure before I order

Look closely at a cross section of the sole. Some manufacturers used a layer of ½" marine plywood as a sub floor and a ¼" layer of marine ply with a teak veneer. You may be able to see a cross section in one of the bilge access holes, or if you are removing the sole take a core sample with a hole saw.

Typically the sub-sole was glued and screwed to the floors and edges of the hull. Then a layer of fiberglass cloth was applied and the ¼" sole was applied before the resin set up.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Did the same to mine after 10 years of use. I can only presume the factory finish was about one coat of varnish.



I had let all boards sit in the basement for the winter to insure the moisture content was as low as possible. Slapped two coats of varnish (30% thinner) on the underside and edges. Nothing fancy and no sanding. The top side was different with sanding the old varnish to #220, primer coat of 50% varnish and 50% thinner, next 75-25%, followed by six coats of 100% varnish. Had a buddy with a hot box and stored them on edge for two months at 105 deg. F. Finally sanded to #1000 and then used a polisher with Meguiars:



Now just haul them out on to the dock and polish it every 2-3 years.

 

[smokey73]

Look closely at a cross section of the sole. Some manufacturers used a layer of ½" marine plywood as a sub floor and a ¼" layer of marine ply with a teak veneer.

Will do! I think its 3/4 inch marine Teak and Holly. I've had the "offending" section out and can't see any layers other than the regular plywood structure but I'll check closely. Thanks for the warning

 

[smokey73]

Did the same to mine after 10 years of use. I can only presume the factory finish was about one coat of varnish.

From your description it sounds like you refinished your existing sole. I'm going to have to replace at least one section and most likely two. I had a fresh water belly tank leak and delaminated the plywood on one piece. If I can't match the finish well enough I'll have to replace the whole sole in the salon. Any idea what varnish Hunter used for the sole. I think thy used Seafin for the cabinetry but probably not for the sole.

 

[wdonovan]

Thanks all for the tips. I much appreciate you taking your time to chime in. A lot of different options here. Originally I planned on full epoxy shell then varnish or poly for walking surface. changed my mind for a couple reasons. If there is any breech in epoxy it will seal all moisture in. Other finishes will breathe slightly and owing to the placement of these boards I prefer this. Read that spar varnish is not durable for flooring but then remembered that's what I did the floors in my house with 20 years ago. Don't like a gloss or even a homogenous look and this boat sees light use. My main interest is in sealing against dirt while keeping a look that most closely resembles the oiled teak in the interior. I have started finishing, wiping not brushing MOW thinned 50/50. Interesting the ply bottom (which looks like mahogany) is taking a long time to cure as expected but the teak & holly veneer is drying in an hour or two. I chalk it up to very dry teak (22 yrs) absorbing the finish. Was able to coat the top twice in a day. Tomorrow the bottom will be dry so all sides get another coat.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Originally I planned on full epoxy shell then varnish or poly for walking surface.

Please turn back the hands of time. Back in 2009 I hadn't gotten into epoxy yet and went with eight coats of varnish on the floor. Still picks up a lot of dings and dents but that's life.

Maybe a year or two later I was covering everything that was wood and didn't move with epoxy.

I finally went all out and covered my steps with clear epoxy and glass cloth. The cloth disappears completely in the epoxy because they have the same refractive index. Another three coats of clear epoxy and your ready for the varnish. There's not a dent in them after 10 years and no further varnish.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Any idea what varnish Hunter used for the sole. I think thy used Seafin for the cabinetry but probably not for the sole.

@smokey73 .......................

No idea what varnish they used but mine was very adherant when I varnished over it. At least you're starting with a good base.

You're right about Seafin on all cabinets but not the floor.

 

[smokey73]

No idea what varnish they used but mine was very adherant when I varnished over it. At least you're starting with a good base.

Unfortunately, I won't be starting with a good base. I have to replace with NEW teak and holly veneered marine plywood on at least one large section. Matching may be a challenge, hence my question on what Hunter used on the soles around 1994.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I have to replace with NEW teak and holly veneered marine plywood on at least one large section.

OUCH I see your problem.

'Fraid I can't offer much encouragement as far as matching the original teak and holly (T&H) to new T&H plywood.
The new plywood will be from different growing sources. Even if you had left over sheets from Hunter's original construction, they wouldn't match because your's is sun bleached. Unless you like throw rugs, a lot, not much choice other than replace the whole floor.

 

[HMT2]

I did my ‘83 Hunter 31. I did three coats of epoxy on all of it then three coats of varnish on top. The aft and middle sections were 3/4 teak and holly. The area in the vberth was 1/2 inch teak and holly glued down to fiberglass. Here is a link I did exactly what he says and it looks great five years later.

 

[Sailfanatic]

The experience that I have had in finishing a cabin soles without sealing with epoxy, one in polyurethane and a second one with varnish, is that neither of them completely seals the edges of the wood, so that when you have the eventual puddle by an edge, the water is pulled into the wood and you end up with a black spot. I think only epoxy is capable of sealing wood, then a UV varnish on top to protect the epoxy from sun.

 

[Tim22]

I did this 5 years ago. 10 coats of Epiphane Spar varnish. It has not held up well so not recommended. If I new then what I know now I would at least do an epoxy base.
Tim

 

[jon hansen]

"Tradition", you all will never do. why bother, right. keeping aeolus 66' is what i choose to do. since dad bought the boat in the spring of 74' i have only redone the teak and holly floor once, back in the 90's. twenty coats of epiphanes exterior gloss. then every 3/ 4 years a couple of fresh top coats. easy peezee. i love the look. the varnish has protected the wood beautifully.

i grew up on wood boats. a little varnishing every year is nothing.
wanna know what i hate, auto wax type dust and smell. never on my boats

 

[TomY]

"Tradition", you all will never do. why bother, right. keeping aeolus 66' is what i choose to do. since dad bought the boat in the spring of 74' i have only redone the teak and holly floor once, back in the 90's. twenty coats of epiphanes exterior gloss. then every 3/ 4 years a couple of fresh top coats. easy peezee. i love the look. the varnish has protected the wood beautifully.

i grew up on wood boats. a little varnishing every year is nothing.
wanna know what i hate, auto wax type dust an smell. never on my boats

I stripped my teak and holly soles in 2000, Jon, and I've yet to add another coat. I used gloss spar varnish too. It turns matt finish after a few years of a family of 4 and 2 dogs. It has held up well as a protective coating sealing the wood. I varnished all side of course, 2 -3 on the bottom and maybe 5 coats on top. Wood below has none of the typical problems of 'brightwork'. It's easy.

I've never used epoxy under a finish yet but many do. It can't hurt, unless you have to take it off.