Fuel prices are sky-rocketing. Greenhouse gasses are a legitimate concern for the future of our planet. Does having a sailboat instead of a powerboat help you feel more environmentally conscious? Or do you consider antifouling paint and the toxins that go into producing a recreational vessel? Are you treading lightly with regards to the environment by strictly following regulations with regards to holding tank pumpout and environmentally friendly cleaners? Or are the oceans large enough to diffuse the relatively small amount of impact we make as recreational sailors? State your position here then vote in the Quick Quiz on the home page. PLEASE NOTE: Posts that wander off into political rants will be removed. (Discussion topic and quiz by Trevor MacLachlan)
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I definitely feel that having a sailboat instead of a powerboat helps the environment but admittedly that's not why I bought a sailboat to start with.
Agree with Pierre
I sail because I love sailing. Has nothing to do with the environment. I still own a car and burn electricity. If you want to feel more environmentally conscious....live in a cave. Any true power jockey would not convert to sailing just because of environmental concerns. The only thing sailors and power boaters have in common is that they share the same waterways, and it ends there. IMHO Tony B
I sail because I love sailing. Has nothing to do with the environment. I still own a car and burn electricity. If you want to feel more environmentally conscious....live in a cave. Any true power jockey would not convert to sailing just because of environmental concerns. The only thing sailors and power boaters have in common is that they share the same waterways, and it ends there. IMHO Tony B
RE: I agree with sailortonyb Allied Mistress 39
I love sailing but like powerboats! I have most on my saving in oil stocks so I have to love power boaters! Greenhouse gasses make the planet hoter, therefore we use more natural gas to run our AC units. You can smell the money! Nothing wrong with making money!
I love sailing but like powerboats! I have most on my saving in oil stocks so I have to love power boaters! Greenhouse gasses make the planet hoter, therefore we use more natural gas to run our AC units. You can smell the money! Nothing wrong with making money!
I love passing hte fuel docks
Last year I used 18 liters (5 US gallons) of diesel for the season. The guy down the dock with a 40 boat powerboat just put in 200 liters of gas at $1.45 CDN per liter - and that was for the weekend. He says his budget for fuel for the year is $3,500 to $4,000. If I own my boat 20 years I might burn that much diesel. I don't know how much toxic crud is produced in making fiberglass boats, but at least the hulls last a long time. In fact, no one really knows how long the hulls produced with the newer techniques might last - I assume 40 or 50 years is likely. So spread out over that length of time, I don't feel too guilty about the manufacturing process. Batteries are a problem, as lead is nasty stuff, but all the sailboats in the world probably account for less than one day's production of auto batteries. When the engine is off and the wind is moving the boat, I feel like my eco-footprint is pretty small.
Last year I used 18 liters (5 US gallons) of diesel for the season. The guy down the dock with a 40 boat powerboat just put in 200 liters of gas at $1.45 CDN per liter - and that was for the weekend. He says his budget for fuel for the year is $3,500 to $4,000. If I own my boat 20 years I might burn that much diesel. I don't know how much toxic crud is produced in making fiberglass boats, but at least the hulls last a long time. In fact, no one really knows how long the hulls produced with the newer techniques might last - I assume 40 or 50 years is likely. So spread out over that length of time, I don't feel too guilty about the manufacturing process. Batteries are a problem, as lead is nasty stuff, but all the sailboats in the world probably account for less than one day's production of auto batteries. When the engine is off and the wind is moving the boat, I feel like my eco-footprint is pretty small.
Being a sailor has...
nothing to do with fuel. I just enjoy the sound of the sea lapping up against the hull of the boat as it is moving thru the water. Noise is the issue, not fuel. And besides, the earth goes thru cycles of cooling and heating because of it's orbit around the sun, not the humans living here.
nothing to do with fuel. I just enjoy the sound of the sea lapping up against the hull of the boat as it is moving thru the water. Noise is the issue, not fuel. And besides, the earth goes thru cycles of cooling and heating because of it's orbit around the sun, not the humans living here.
Green?
When the boat is trimmed just so and making over hull speed with just the gurgle and bubble of water on the hull and around the rudder, I marvel at the forces that propel us without using fuel. However, I sail for the joy of sailing, not because of environmental concerns. When a powerboat passes by and we get a whiff of exhaust, I do feel superior and glad that i am not contributing to the accumulated stink. On the other hand, my outboard is a 2-stroke, my car is a V6, I heat my house and cool it in summer, and we keep a small power boat in Croatia (you need it to do the shopping!) for when we are over there. My carbon footprint is as large as the next guys'.
When the boat is trimmed just so and making over hull speed with just the gurgle and bubble of water on the hull and around the rudder, I marvel at the forces that propel us without using fuel. However, I sail for the joy of sailing, not because of environmental concerns. When a powerboat passes by and we get a whiff of exhaust, I do feel superior and glad that i am not contributing to the accumulated stink. On the other hand, my outboard is a 2-stroke, my car is a V6, I heat my house and cool it in summer, and we keep a small power boat in Croatia (you need it to do the shopping!) for when we are over there. My carbon footprint is as large as the next guys'.
What's the issue?
First of all this is not a political rant, it's scientific. We should start with a question, "greenhouse gasses" is an issue on the public scene, not the physical scene, so why are the masses of people acting concerned? The earth has suffered more significant cold spells than hot spells driven by energy emissions of our sun. The latest predictions of the sun's emissions state that by 2010 the earth will enter a prolonged cold period lasting up to 10 years. Given that this information is more factual than popular, pollution by humans is the prime problem since this is not a natural event. Therefore, efforts to control pollution should be at the top of everyone's list. As a point of interest, maximizing greenhouse gases may be in the earth's best interest if the cold period prediction is correct. It may be better to be retaining heat as opposed to encouraging glaciers.
First of all this is not a political rant, it's scientific. We should start with a question, "greenhouse gasses" is an issue on the public scene, not the physical scene, so why are the masses of people acting concerned? The earth has suffered more significant cold spells than hot spells driven by energy emissions of our sun. The latest predictions of the sun's emissions state that by 2010 the earth will enter a prolonged cold period lasting up to 10 years. Given that this information is more factual than popular, pollution by humans is the prime problem since this is not a natural event. Therefore, efforts to control pollution should be at the top of everyone's list. As a point of interest, maximizing greenhouse gases may be in the earth's best interest if the cold period prediction is correct. It may be better to be retaining heat as opposed to encouraging glaciers.
What exactly is "green," anyway?
Recreational boaters are the object of environmental persecution. Cities and towns running sewerage transfer and treatment plants, and commercial shipping dump millions upon millions of more times the pollution into the world's waterways than yachts could ever do even if they wanted to. People are heavily fined for tiny fuel spills - ounces! - of light fuels, which WILL dissipate quickly, and cause no environmental damage, while barges dump tons of heavy fuel oil at a time, seemingly all the time. Folks stress out over peeing into the ocean, while sewerage plants dump tons of concentrated high-nitrogen waste into the rivers and sounds and bays every time there's a heavy rainfall. We should resolve to stop being persecuted and victimized in this way!
Recreational boaters are the object of environmental persecution. Cities and towns running sewerage transfer and treatment plants, and commercial shipping dump millions upon millions of more times the pollution into the world's waterways than yachts could ever do even if they wanted to. People are heavily fined for tiny fuel spills - ounces! - of light fuels, which WILL dissipate quickly, and cause no environmental damage, while barges dump tons of heavy fuel oil at a time, seemingly all the time. Folks stress out over peeing into the ocean, while sewerage plants dump tons of concentrated high-nitrogen waste into the rivers and sounds and bays every time there's a heavy rainfall. We should resolve to stop being persecuted and victimized in this way!
Well put jviss.
Enforce regulations of the biggest offenders, not the little guy. I am 100 percent in protecting the environment - I am also 100 percent in common sense! Show me a clam that you cant eat because of bottom paint - you cant. Show me a fish you cant eat because of recreational waste discharge - you cant. Show me the worst environmental disaster killing complete eco-systems from Tanker spills - you can.
Enforce regulations of the biggest offenders, not the little guy. I am 100 percent in protecting the environment - I am also 100 percent in common sense! Show me a clam that you cant eat because of bottom paint - you cant. Show me a fish you cant eat because of recreational waste discharge - you cant. Show me the worst environmental disaster killing complete eco-systems from Tanker spills - you can.
Just love to be playing on the water
If that means that I can do it in a canoe, or a 45' sailboat, or (dare I say) pwc. I must admit that I am most inclined to sailing. The felling of channeling the forces of wind and sea are what make for good sailing. As for the enviornment. Don't dump the bucket in the water while in a slip or mooring. Don't throw the cans, bottles, or bags over the side. There are definate courtesies (sp?) I exercise around my own house that apply to being outdoors, but green is not the reason I sail.
If that means that I can do it in a canoe, or a 45' sailboat, or (dare I say) pwc. I must admit that I am most inclined to sailing. The felling of channeling the forces of wind and sea are what make for good sailing. As for the enviornment. Don't dump the bucket in the water while in a slip or mooring. Don't throw the cans, bottles, or bags over the side. There are definate courtesies (sp?) I exercise around my own house that apply to being outdoors, but green is not the reason I sail.
Jim with your tongue firmly in cheek you may
say anything you please. But if you truly feel that way then you are missing much in life. I do not sail because it is good for the planet. I sail because it is good for me. I am not wasteful of the planets resources but I live a life style that pleases me. I am amused by the people that enjoy "go-fast" boats because they are so costly. I am a tight-wad at heart so I spend as little as posible.
say anything you please. But if you truly feel that way then you are missing much in life. I do not sail because it is good for the planet. I sail because it is good for me. I am not wasteful of the planets resources but I live a life style that pleases me. I am amused by the people that enjoy "go-fast" boats because they are so costly. I am a tight-wad at heart so I spend as little as posible.
Yes, fuel prices are skyrocketing...
But that doesn't keep me from sailing. The price of fuel keeps me from heading down to the boat. As soon as I can move the boat up the coast closer to home, the more sailing I will do. But like I said before, its more of the noise that I detest. Wouldn't it be cool to have a steam powered boat that uses raw sea water for its steam power? And Jim, take this test on "global warming". You might be surprised in the results.
But that doesn't keep me from sailing. The price of fuel keeps me from heading down to the boat. As soon as I can move the boat up the coast closer to home, the more sailing I will do. But like I said before, its more of the noise that I detest. Wouldn't it be cool to have a steam powered boat that uses raw sea water for its steam power? And Jim, take this test on "global warming". You might be surprised in the results.
Mankind
Man as steward of earth must understand consumption of natural resources. The gasoline combustion engine will go down in history as the invention which started taking the atmosphere away from us. Disregarding the greed of profit takers, there are far more life riches, than earnings or money, status or horsepower, in understanding relationships which protect the environment. Such understanding is a valued part of continuing intelligent life. And the sailboat serving example of a craft carrying human beings to discovery of free force power elememts of nature, helping us find new frontiers of energy, need not be discriminated by those who choose other ways to travel over water. Beware the economies of production affecting conditions of environment. Sail on with perceptions of your participation in the process of living together. Respect the wise lessons of history. Study and reason. When challenging waves approach you sail on under control understanding how decisions you make contribute to the journey you enjoy.
Man as steward of earth must understand consumption of natural resources. The gasoline combustion engine will go down in history as the invention which started taking the atmosphere away from us. Disregarding the greed of profit takers, there are far more life riches, than earnings or money, status or horsepower, in understanding relationships which protect the environment. Such understanding is a valued part of continuing intelligent life. And the sailboat serving example of a craft carrying human beings to discovery of free force power elememts of nature, helping us find new frontiers of energy, need not be discriminated by those who choose other ways to travel over water. Beware the economies of production affecting conditions of environment. Sail on with perceptions of your participation in the process of living together. Respect the wise lessons of history. Study and reason. When challenging waves approach you sail on under control understanding how decisions you make contribute to the journey you enjoy.
I hope gas prices go up
If fuel gets even more costly maybe there will be less power boats on the water. With less power boats on the water my sail will get much much more enjoyable. They won't go screaming by, throwing a huge wake, making tons of noise, all while completely oblivious to the rules of rightaway.
If fuel gets even more costly maybe there will be less power boats on the water. With less power boats on the water my sail will get much much more enjoyable. They won't go screaming by, throwing a huge wake, making tons of noise, all while completely oblivious to the rules of rightaway.
YOUR question is a political one...
How can you say greenhouse gasses "are a concern for the future of our planet" and then not permit a discussion of that so called fact? While it may not be the majority viewpoint...there is considerable evidence AND scientific opinion that MAN does not contribute in any significant way to greenhouse gases and that green house gas increases FOLLOW rather than lead climate change. (i.e. the earth is warming naturally). I am not looking to hash this out here as it is not the place...but your question presumes the underlying statement is true and brooks no argument. As to REAL water/air pollution (fertilizer run off, sulfuric acid,sewage overflow, chemical plant releases) ...the internal combustion engine certainly contributes to that and more efficient and cleaner engines are in everyone's interest. Solar and wind on sailboats as well as sailing itself helps keep it to a minimum but our best hope is a water based fuel cell or electric engine/battery system that works for cruising. I think most cruising sailors have a far smaller pollution footprint than the average dirt dweller....and I don't mind paying more at the pump if that will make a difference in making alternative energy choices more feasible...but I do object to lining the pockets of the shieks and oil companies further.
How can you say greenhouse gasses "are a concern for the future of our planet" and then not permit a discussion of that so called fact? While it may not be the majority viewpoint...there is considerable evidence AND scientific opinion that MAN does not contribute in any significant way to greenhouse gases and that green house gas increases FOLLOW rather than lead climate change. (i.e. the earth is warming naturally). I am not looking to hash this out here as it is not the place...but your question presumes the underlying statement is true and brooks no argument. As to REAL water/air pollution (fertilizer run off, sulfuric acid,sewage overflow, chemical plant releases) ...the internal combustion engine certainly contributes to that and more efficient and cleaner engines are in everyone's interest. Solar and wind on sailboats as well as sailing itself helps keep it to a minimum but our best hope is a water based fuel cell or electric engine/battery system that works for cruising. I think most cruising sailors have a far smaller pollution footprint than the average dirt dweller....and I don't mind paying more at the pump if that will make a difference in making alternative energy choices more feasible...but I do object to lining the pockets of the shieks and oil companies further.
Boats
The global cessation of combustion is not optional. Boating is fun. Sailing is fun. Sailing presents lots of opportunities to play around with things and systems that can be transferred to or homes and businesses .PV ,wind ,efficient lighting and appliances ,batteries ,hybrid systems ,electric propulsion, minimizing carry on carry off waste, sewage handling and more .The fun and comfortable sailboat with intelligent nonpolluting systems is (on a miniature scale) essentially what the planet needs . Antifouling paint is like many of the problems of a degraded environment. Two boats in a two mile bay are not the same as 200 boats. The lowest impact method that does a reasonable job is best. Finding that method takes some work. Fiberglass is a good product. This is the way that oil should be used, to make superior products that last and potentially could be recycled. Not burned and tossed. The reduction and control of toxins in the entire process should be a high priority which is not the norm yet.
The global cessation of combustion is not optional. Boating is fun. Sailing is fun. Sailing presents lots of opportunities to play around with things and systems that can be transferred to or homes and businesses .PV ,wind ,efficient lighting and appliances ,batteries ,hybrid systems ,electric propulsion, minimizing carry on carry off waste, sewage handling and more .The fun and comfortable sailboat with intelligent nonpolluting systems is (on a miniature scale) essentially what the planet needs . Antifouling paint is like many of the problems of a degraded environment. Two boats in a two mile bay are not the same as 200 boats. The lowest impact method that does a reasonable job is best. Finding that method takes some work. Fiberglass is a good product. This is the way that oil should be used, to make superior products that last and potentially could be recycled. Not burned and tossed. The reduction and control of toxins in the entire process should be a high priority which is not the norm yet.
Not the only reason
I seem to agree with most of the comments posted here. I don't sail because it uses less energy but it makes me feel better about it. The fact that I can go a whole season on 5 gallons of diesel while my powerboater friend can't go an hour on that much makes me feel good. I don't feel any guilt over peeing over the rail. I also don't get the stupid rule about peeing into a bucket and dumping is illegal. It makes no sense. That little bit will be processed just fine, especially when it is spread out. Where do we think the fish go. I agree with jviss in terms of the level of persecution and guilt recreational boaters get over tiny things. A little pee over the rail or some diesel pumped out with bilge water are inconsequential compared to industrial levels of discharges that happen all the time and no one says a word. How much does one cruise ship discharge per voyage! I try as hard as I can to minimize any discharge whatsoever but in comparison don't feel I should feel too much guilt over an occasional small amount. I sail because I love harnessing the energy of the world to travel the world and the feeling of quiet speed. Dipping the rail and punching through waves while having a conversation at the same time is awesome. The fact that sailing is "greener" just makes it better. Have Fun!
I seem to agree with most of the comments posted here. I don't sail because it uses less energy but it makes me feel better about it. The fact that I can go a whole season on 5 gallons of diesel while my powerboater friend can't go an hour on that much makes me feel good. I don't feel any guilt over peeing over the rail. I also don't get the stupid rule about peeing into a bucket and dumping is illegal. It makes no sense. That little bit will be processed just fine, especially when it is spread out. Where do we think the fish go. I agree with jviss in terms of the level of persecution and guilt recreational boaters get over tiny things. A little pee over the rail or some diesel pumped out with bilge water are inconsequential compared to industrial levels of discharges that happen all the time and no one says a word. How much does one cruise ship discharge per voyage! I try as hard as I can to minimize any discharge whatsoever but in comparison don't feel I should feel too much guilt over an occasional small amount. I sail because I love harnessing the energy of the world to travel the world and the feeling of quiet speed. Dipping the rail and punching through waves while having a conversation at the same time is awesome. The fact that sailing is "greener" just makes it better. Have Fun!
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