Failed Bottom Paint - Puget Sound - Options

dlochner · Jul 11, 2022

What you proposed doing is called careening. It is a time honored practice in areas with large tidal ranges.

As for your situation I'm not sure all the prep work necessary to safely careen your boat would be less effort than scraping or getting a short haul and slapping a quick coat of paint near the waterline.

Anti fouling effectiveness varies with locale. Somewhat counter intuitively areas with stagnant water will have less growth than areas with good water flow. Stagnant or slow moving water is not rich in nutrients which moving water is. The nutrients support growth. Moving water also wears away ablative paint faster than stagnant or slow moving water. Micron CSC is a soft ablative paint. Scraping and cleaning will accelerate paint wearing off leading to more growth. It is a viscous cycle.

Ralph Johnstone · Jul 11, 2022

Bottom paint is a tough one to deal with. Very area specific.

For years I also use Micron CSC (not CRC) with good success IN MY AREA. No hard growth ever. This was a bad year for barnacles on the prop and shaft but not a single one on the hull:

I got sick of the obscene price of Micron CSC and changed over to west Marine CPP Plus:

Every bit as good as Micron at 1/2 the price. The lesson learned here was to ALWAYS apply two coats and avoid having to repeat every two years with the cost of the haul out.

Take a look in the archives under bottom coat and you'll find some interesting info.

Remember, this is for MY area. Results may vary in YOUR area, or not.

fstbttms · Jul 11, 2022

ricksoth said:
In December 2020 we had Micron CRC installed on a new to us sailboat at an Anacortes WA yard which they recommended. It was a singe coat as I recall, which seemed odd but they are the pros know this stuff (I guess).

The boatyard knows that a single coat of an ablative (or hard, for that matter) paint is only going to provide good anti fouling performance for about a year or so. Why do they go against the manufacturer's recommendation and recommend a single coat? Because they want you back in the yard that much sooner, that's why.

dLj · Jul 11, 2022

In Normandy what you are talking about is done all the time - but they have what, 15 meter tides? (something like that). But you don't need to lay the boat over on it's side, you can build legs that you attach to the sides of your boat so it simply settles on it's keel and remains upright.

I used to do this all the time, but did it along a vertical wall in the port where I sailed so simply allowed the boat to lie up against the wall, then clean both sides. I was where there were 9 meter tides. What do you have for tidal shifts where you are? My boat drew a bit under 6 feet and was about a 32 footer so I could usually get the bottom pressure washed and repainted in one tidal shift, but it was really tight for time. Occasionally I had to wait and do it in two low tides. I would always watch the tidal shifts such that the next two high tides were at least the same or higher than the tide I set at, just to be sure I could get off again when done. You should keep that in mind for where you are also.

As you don't have a wall, I'd suggest making legs so you leave the boat vertical on it's keel. If you do decide to do this, three legs are enough, you have one on one side that is slightly longer (they do need to be adjustable) so the boat settles slightly to the side with two legs. Of course you can use more. I used to see sailors that did this all the time just use two on one side, but they had lots of practice...This also allows you to start cleaning when the ship is grounded but the tide hasn't gone all the way out. You'll also need a ladder to get off your boat (don't know your draft).

Takes some planning. It's a bit unnerving first time you do it as when the tide is going out, your keel bounces on the bottom with the wave action, doesn't matter how little wave action there is, there is enough to initially bounce a bit (at least I've never seen the contrary). I don't know where that beach is you have pictured but it does look quite protected. That's good...

dj

fstbttms · Jul 11, 2022

ricksoth said:
Regrading painting, has anyone ever intentionally used the tide and their beach to simply "lay the boat" over and paint where needed during the tide change?

BTW- this is illegal in Washington.

mermike · Jul 11, 2022

fstbttms said:
BTW- this is illegal in Washington.

Citation, please? This a bit of a surprise.

fstbttms · Jul 11, 2022

mermike said:
Citation, please? This a bit of a surprise.

A surprise that in the most restrictive sate in the nation (as far as anti fouling paint goes), that careening or using a grid to paint your bottom is illegal?

Don't Do It On the Grid!

It is illegal to wash, sand, scrape or paint a boat on a tide grid, or while beached on the intertidal zone. Spilling toxic chemicals, cleaners and solvents in this sensitive area is very damaging. Limit tide grid work to zinc, through-hull, prop work or minor repairs.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://pugetsoundkeeper.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2017-Boaters-Guide.pdf

MikeHoncho · Jul 11, 2022

I’ve noticed growth has been significantly more this year than in the past 4 years. Specifically just like you described, at the waterline and a couple inches below and on both sides of the rudder. All areas that get the most light all though green growth, no barnicles (I’ve never have had them). Last time I cleaned my bottom I thought I was in for a big job with several inches of long stringy growth at the waterline and rudder. Below that it was actually pretty clean.

dLj · Jul 11, 2022

fstbttms said:
A surprise that in the most restrictive sate in the nation (as far as anti fouling paint goes), that careening or using a grid to paint your bottom is illegal?

Don't Do It On the Grid!

It is illegal to wash, sand, scrape or paint a boat on a tide grid, or while beached on the intertidal zone. Spilling toxic chemicals, cleaners and solvents in this sensitive area is very damaging. Limit tide grid work to zinc, through-hull, prop work or minor repairs.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://pugetsoundkeeper.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/2017-Boaters-Guide.pdf

I don't think this is the case just in the State of Washington - I've recently learned because I have ablative bottom paint I can't even clean my boats bottom in the water where I am on the Chesapeake....

dj

FastOlson · Jul 11, 2022

Both Oregon and Washington had tide grids in regular use until about mid or late 80's, roughly.
Then they banned the practice of scrapping/cleaning bottom paints off that way due to concerns bout the the copper crud accumulating in the area. You could still use the grids for changing a prop or an anode, but the local ports were too leary that a boater would scrape off old paint even tho they promised to only use the grid for other maintenance.
We were trailering our Ranger 20 up there for vacation cruises and saw occasional grids still in use, in the late 70's.
Simpler Times, they were.

mikeracca · Jul 12, 2022

Depending on where in the Puget Sound you are, there are 2 DIY yards that I know of. I’m having Luna hauled out in August at Swantown in southern Puget Sound in Olympia. Prices are pretty reasonable. There is also a yard in Port Townsend, the name escapes me at the moment that also allows DIY. Maybe someone will chime in with the name of that yard. I’m not sure on their prices as that would be a 3+ hour drive for me to go there. In the Tacoma area there are a few non DIY yards that may be able to help you as well. Hylebos comes to mind.

Joe · Jul 12, 2022

Putting a few coats of bottom paint over the old paint is pretty easy. Hire the diver to come out and wipe down the bottom a day or two before you haul out... the DIY yard may still require you to have their crew power wash it anyhow. But between the diver's effort and the power wash it should be clean enough to just paint right over the old stuff. With ablative paint, the owner usually likes to put down the first coat in a different color from the successive layers. That color change lets you know how fast and where the paint is eroding. (that's how ablative works) . I'm with Ralph on using the WM paint.
You'll tape the water line first thing, then lay on the first coat of paint. In between coats you can work on the boot stripe. But you'll use a different paint for that so don't let it cut in to the bottom time because my choice is lots of thin coats. The paint dries really fast so you can start rolling, take a little break or work on the boot stripe, and then roll on another coat. You'll want the stands relocated so you can paint under the pads... and here you might have an issue with the yard. Often they will want only their yard manager to do that.... but I've always found that a $20 bill and a 6 pack can help accommodate this. Finally, when the splash is scheduled, leave some paint and a throw away brush and roller near the stand, perhaps with another gratuity, and the yard/lift driver will paint under the pads one last time, letting it sit in the slings a bit before going in the water. Call around to the local yards and they will give you a haul out/in quote over the phone.... plus any restrictions. Beats the heck out of careening your boat just to save a few hundred bucks.

jssailem · Jul 12, 2022

Finding a DIY boat yard is tough for the work you are considering.

Only grid I know about is the one in COMOX BC a bit far to sail.

Boat Launch and Tidal Grids:

The municipal boat launch and two tidal grids are available for use. Please note the closure dates:

Snow to Surf: May 1st, 2022
Dragon Boat Race: June 10 & 11, 2022
Nautical Days: July 29 to August 1st, 2022

The Tidal Grids must be booked 'in person’ at Comox Town Hall

Monday - Friday 8:30 am – 4:30 pm at 1809 Beaufort Avenue.

Seaview in Seattle and Bellingham does permit DIY work just not all work.

There are a couple of exclusions to the do-it-yourself policy, including bottom work, replacing anodes, sandblasting and spray painting, all of which must be done by Seaview personnel for environmental considerations and/or danger to adjacent vessels.

Everett requires the bottom to be pressure washed by marina personnel but the sanding and painting can be done DIY in the yard.

https://cms9files.revize.com/everett/Document%20Center/Your%20Port/Document%20Center/Marina/Policies,%20Rules%20&%20Regulations/MarinaBoatyardBestManageme.pdf

MARCH 6 2020 IN Everett Yard prepping Mahalo for a bottom job.

The Boat yard in La Conner permist DIY work. @Terry Cox has talked about doing his own bottom paint here on the forum.

mikeracca · Jul 12, 2022

ricksoth said:
I'm just around the corner from Port Orchard, at Brownsville or during the summer on the mooring along Illahee Beach. What bottom paint have you decided on using for the Port Orchard (Bay) area?

I have pondered going to BoatHaven (Port Townsend) for a DIY but it seems sort of far away when YachtFish is in PO or Gig Harbor Marine are much closer. I just need to take a more active role in paint selection, coating counts, etc.

I plan on using the CCP Stuff from West Marine. Where I’m at right now has some pretty fast currents, much faster than Sinclair Inlet (Port Orchard) and others at my marina say it works well. There are a few boats here that are scum free and they barely leave the marina. After I get my bottom done, I plan on getting Luna moved to Port Orchard Marina, it’s a much nicer place than Brown’s Point Marina where I am now. It will be farther away from where I live now, but Port Orchard is where I call home.

Mark Maulden · Jul 12, 2022

I'm in Anacortes and have no barnies. Just some slime that easily gets cleaned with a homemade hull cleaner made from PVC and pool noodles. Bottom paint is Pettit SR 60.

Failed Bottom Paint - Puget Sound - Options

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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