Express 35 quadrant stop

[jag55]

I recently purchased an Express 35' named Phoenix - it may have been in the forum in the past.

The surveyor made a recommendation that there should be stops at the 36 degrees either side of center for the rudder stops. You can see the pin on the quadrant in the picture (apologies again if there are multiples). I was thinking i might remove the pin and likely cut it down a bit and then mount it on the top. Doing this would make it possible to mount something on the bottom of the cockpit sole. I would likely use a suitable adhesive and some kind of track arrangement to allow adjustment of the stop. I am wondering if anyone out there has knowledge of how it was actually done on the Express 35'?

 

[jag55]

Edson wheel 777-8 2.5” rudder stock
The Edson wheel looks completely stock and intact. Still a mystery to me whether or not anything was actually contacting the stop at any time. Very tight. Lots going on under it.
8” radius

 

[jssailem]

I can not identify the quadrant structure, to see its rotation, and the limits that should be in place in the image.

That being said, you do want to have stops to limit the amount of rotation for the rudder. At some point of rotation, the rudder becomes ineffective at turning the boat. At 90º, the rudder becomes a flat board in the water stream. The rudder post and the rudder construction are not designed to manage the forces in that configuration and can be snapped off. The stops are designed to prevent that from happening.

 

[Davidasailor26]

hat being said, you do want to have stops to limit the amount of rotation for the rudder. At some point of rotation, the rudder becomes ineffective at turning the boat. At 90º, the rudder becomes a flat board in the water stream. The rudder post and the rudder construction are not designed to manage the forces in that configuration and can be snapped off. The stops are designed to prevent that from happening.

If it’s even possible for the rudder to turn that far. On many boats the rudder will collide with the bottom of the hull if turned too far. The stops should prevent that. When going forward the forces on the stops might not be too hard - they’re limited to how hard the skipper can turn the wheel. But the bigger forces can happen if the boat is backing up and the wheel is allowed to turn. In that case the water will force the rudder forward and can slam it to the side.

 

[jag55]

Thank You both. What I am hoping for is a method of fitting the stops. I believe the stop is that pin on the Edson 777-8. I do not want to change anything on that. Does anyone have a picture of a 35' rudder wheel (preferably a 777-8 Edson) that shows how the rudder is prevented from going beyond 35-36 degrees either side of center?

 

[Davidasailor26]

That pin is puzzling. We had an Edson quadrant on a previous boat. The pin was covered in rubber and mounted on the top of the quadrant instead of the bottom. The cockpit sole had a couple of fiberglass or wood beams as the stops. The stops definitely need to be strongly attached to the sole. I think ours were through-bolted to the binnacle guard rail hold-downs.

 

[jag55]

David,
Yes, it is puzzling and I would much rather have it on the top. There is very little clearance between the cockpit sole and the top of the quadrant though - approximately 1 3/32", AND, the quadrant stop holes are threaded and do not go through, and that is why I would rather not mess with it. I am thinking of a triangular arrangement with the quadrant side being circular in shape to match the quadrant curvature as close as practical. An inch thick plywood possibly with a steel or aluminum band 1/8" thick with holes drilled appropriately to mount a block with urethane coating or such for damping....

 

[dlochner]

Unfortunately I don't have a photo, the rudder stops on my Sabre are short pieces of ¼" angle iron attached to a bulkhead on either side of the quadrant.

The rubber bumper on the post is a piece of ¾" heater hose, the kind without the wire. It tends to slip off the post.

 

[Davidasailor26]

The other option is to attach a separate arm to the post, like a below deck autopilot arm would use. That’s how the stop works on our current boat - the autopilot connects to an arm bolted onto the post, and there’s a large metal bracket mounted just below that arm to limit the range of the arm. The metal bracket has rubber bumpers on it. This picture shows that a bit - the quadrant is at the very top of the picture. The autopilot arm is in the center of the picture, with the red rubber on the metal stops, bolted to a wood mounting panel just below that. I think the wood spans between two traverse bulkheads and is attached to them on the sides.

 

[jag55]

That is a nice, solid looking arrangement you have there! I do have a Raymarine 4000+ but may upgrade at some point. It is chattering so does need attention. I will put some thought into this approach. Thanks David!

 

[jssailem]

@jag55, you mention "chattering". There are a couple of possibilities for that experience. Both require attention to the inner workings of the wheel parts of the 4000+.

Mine did that type of behaviour right before it failed.
In my case, the "Drive Ring" was failing. Here is the unit when I removed it. You can see the cracks that formed in the plastic around the threaded rivetnuts in the ring. Replacement was the only solution. I was lucky to find one.

 

[jag55]

I have two brand new clutch rollers. I thought the parts were easily available and that the outer ring was around $130 USD. Oh well, I'll see what it looks like when I take it apart. Thanks John!

 

[jssailem]

Do you have the manual?

 

[jag55]

John,

I have an owner's handbook. The previous owner said he just googled for the details but I have not done so as yet.

 

[jssailem]

Here is a link to my forum message in 2021.

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/threads/ev-100-autopilot-4000mk2-wheel-drive-repair.1249931657/post-1721672

 

[jag55]

Thanks for this John! I'll let you know when I get to this, probably next week.

 

[jag55]

John,

mine is the Mk2 not the + model. The ring is ok. I managed to break one of those three pins on the inside of the cover that engage the holes in the ring. I’m going to replace the cover, the belt and the clutch lever. Fingers crossed.

 

[jssailem]

When the plastic breaks, the only solution is to replace the part. I found success with Fisheries Supply in Seattle. I have also found parts on eBay. Be careful with eBay, so that the part you seek is the one they are offering.

Fair Winds.