Everyone Knows It's Windy

Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Sailing is about looking at conditions and adapting your craft and crew to the tasks.

25 knots is no problem.
gear up and get ready for fun...
623DFC52-174A-4FA0-AF96-FBD18E55DD9D.jpeg


But arriving at the dock with friends I would take a moment to acclimate them to the less exciting part of sailing. Weather forecasting. If it is going to be a steady 25, I‘d be reefing the sails and putting on my foulies expecting a fun time on the water. I’d brew some hot water and store it in a thermos so we could a hot beverage or soup while out. I’d tell the crew what we can expect and what I expect of them. I would not coerce or force anyone to leave a solid safe dock if they were not informed and had made an informed decision. Staying on the dock after considering the facts is fine.

If it is 25 knots going to build to 60 knots, I would have them help me double up the lines and we’d check our schedules for another time.

Sailing in heavy winds is a skill you want your crew to be ready sail, be they newbies of competent professionals. The only way to build that skill is to sail.

First you as skipper need to be competent. And if a breeze more than 15knots makes you queazy, then find a skipper with a boat and heavy wind skills. Ask to crew on his/her boat. Learn the nature of boats in heavy breezes and seas. Sail solo so that you can affirm your skill level to handle a boat that is pitching about, only then can you give clear and concise directions to crew members in those same conditions.

Learn to reef, to quarter waves, manage chop, to understand what your boat can do, and then sail.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,774
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Assuming these friends are not sailors and if I hope to keep them as actual friends, I would check my dock lines and suggest a different plan...
I have had this exact scenario twice, once with +30 knots and again with +45 knots on the anemometer and went sailing both times and all aboard had a ball.

On a beautiful sunny and warm +30 knot day about 10-years ago I was taking a group of 3 retired couples none of whom had ever been on a sailboat although two of the guys were US Navy retirees (one served on a destroyer and the other a SeaBee and never on a ship). We had a discussion of what to expect from the conditions. They all said that they wanted to have a go at it with the right to turn back if they didn’t like it. We short tacked out the narrow channel of Oak Harbor straight into a +30 blow that was about 10º off the channel heading. Fortunately, all had decent rain-gear on because we were taking green water the length of the deck bashing through the channel with a reefed main only so that none of the guests needed to do anything but get wet. After we cleared the channel, we cracked off onto a very fun close reach and blasted up Penn Cove which still had considerable wind but without the 30-mile fetch, had much smaller swells. After sailing around for several hours, we anchored for lunch near Coupeville followed by a stop at the dock for Ice Cream. In the afternoon, the wind dropped down into the 10-15 range and we finished the day with a wonderful spinnaker run home. They all still tell me how much fun they had that day every time they see me.

The +40 day was about 20 years ago when I had Papillon on Lake Coeur d’ Alene. When I showed up at the marina, I mentioned to the Harbor Master that I was taking a couple of sailing virgins in spite of the 50-knot windstorm that was forecast for all morning and dropping all the way down to 40 in the afternoon. He said “You are nuts” but of course we both knew that already! Panhandle Yacht Club is tucked up tight to a very steep bank which leaves everything inside of the breakwater pretty sheltered. After clearing the breakwater, I rolled out about 6-8 feet of the genoa and we flew down wind at a consistent 6-7 knots to a nice “hurricane hole” anchorage at the east end of the lake were we enjoyed a great meal and cards. When we were ready to leave, I hoisted the main with a single reef in the calm of the anchorage and they short tacked under main alone, 5 miles back to the marina in a heavy rain and 40 knots of wind while the “smarter” members of the crew stayed dry and warm in the heated cabin. By the end of the day, the couple was asking about “renting” a boat in the Keys together with us so I guess I didn’t scare them away from sailing.
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,774
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
Sailing is about looking at conditions and adapting your craft and crew to the tasks.

25 knots is no problem.
gear up and get ready for fun...
View attachment 176664

But arriving at the dock with friends I would take a moment to acclimate them to the less exciting part of sailing. Weather forecasting. If it is going to be a steady 25, I‘d be reefing the sails and putting on my foulies expecting a fun time on the water. I’d brew some hot water and store it in a thermos so we could a hot beverage or soup while out. I’d tell the crew what we can expect and what I expect of them. I would not coerce or force anyone to leave a solid safe dock if they were not informed and had made an informed decision. Staying on the dock after considering the facts is fine.

If it is 25 knots going to build to 60 knots, I would have them help me double up the lines and we’d check our schedules for another time.

Sailing in heavy winds is a skill you want your crew to be ready sail, be they newbies of competent professionals. The only way to build that skill is to sail.

First you as skipper need to be competent. And if a breeze more than 15knots makes you queazy, then find a skipper with a boat and heavy wind skills. Ask to crew on his/her boat. Learn the nature of boats in heavy breezes and seas. Sail solo so that you can affirm your skill level to handle a boat that is pitching about, only then can you give clear and concise directions to crew members in those same conditions.

Learn to reef, to quarter waves, manage chop, to understand what your boat can do, and then sail.
And add to your list of requirements for sailing with non-sailors, do not sail in any condition that you can comfortably sail without any help from any of them. I include no help from my wife when sailing with guests because she will have her hands full with her Steward duties of keeping the guests comfortable and secure.
For me, that means that the first thing that I tell any guest on board is that they can help or not as they wish. If they want to learn about sailing, I will teach them what to do and let them try all tasks. But I also tell them that I do not require their help in any conditions so their participation is up to them.
 

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
1,222
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
We went for a sail once to see what would happen in a 40-knot breeze. It was blowing that, with higher gusts, and LaGuardia Airport was closed because of it. We grabbed a friend, his wife & kid, put on lifejackets and motored out. We hoisted just the main with a reef it, and started beating into the 4-5’ waves. They’d had about 40 miles of fetch in the west wind to build, and kept our speed down to about 4 knots. Spray from the bow drenched everyone, but it wasn’t too cold. After bashing about a half mile to windward I headed off. The speedo reacted immediately, with the bow wave spraying out past the end of the boom, and we hit better than 12.5 knots dead downwind. A real blast! With the lee shore approaching so fast we had to return to beating after just a minute or so, and we just did a few more cycles before heading in. No drinking under way in conditions like that, but definitely something to talk about at the bar after...
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
You're planning to take some friends out on a summer Saturday, but instead of the nice, warm 10-knot breeze you've got a nice, warm small craft warning gusting to 25 knots.

What do you do?

View attachment 173077
Easy answer, Phil: I'd cancel the sail.

I don't like 25 knots. Sure, it finds me often enough. And I can deal with it -even enjoy it, ....a little,... as I run off if possible.

Too often when 25 knots find me, my destination is to windward. I can do that too, if I have to, but I'll try to avoid 25, if I can.

Life is full of 25 knots. I like 5 to 8.

Camden Hills ahead.jpg
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,774
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
@Hayden Watson Having experienced her Steward’s abilities, she is an excellent Steward. As a guest aboard I was comfortable and secure.
When we are by ourselves, Sue is an active sailor and has even spent several hours on the bow in a full gale with a flashlight spotting the mine field of crab pot buoys. But when we have a boat full of NOOBs, her primary role is to be calm and have fun because they take their cue's from the mate about whether the deification is about to hit the rotary oscillator. Calm, competent skipper + happy relaxed crew = low stress beginners.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
I would tell my friends to bring their windsurf and/or kite surf gear with them and join me for a sail. The after party plan wouldn’t change ;)
 

Tom J

.
Sep 30, 2008
2,301
Catalina 310 Quincy, MA
And add to your list of requirements for sailing with non-sailors, do not sail in any condition that you can comfortably sail without any help from any of them. I include no help from my wife when sailing with guests because she will have her hands full with her Steward duties of keeping the guests comfortable and secure.
For me, that means that the first thing that I tell any guest on board is that they can help or not as they wish. If they want to learn about sailing, I will teach them what to do and let them try all tasks. But I also tell them that I do not require their help in any conditions so their participation is up to them.
:plus:I have learned that it is best to let my wife tend to the comfort of our guests while I tend to the boat. I try to limit how much an inexperienced crew handles the sails. In a breeze over 20 knots with guests aboard, I try to run downwind with just the Genny out, partially deployed. Furling the Genny without overwrapping the furling line takes careful coordination between handling the line and the sheet. After explaining the procedure to new crew, I have had to go forward too many times to clear the overwrap, so I now handle the furling and find someone to take the wheel. Gauging the comfort level of guests in breezy conditions is key to enjoying the day.
 
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Nov 30, 2015
1,336
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
:plus:I have learned that it is best to let my wife tend to the comfort of our guests while I tend to the boat. I try to limit how much an inexperienced crew handles the sails. In a breeze over 20 knots with guests aboard, I try to run downwind with just the Genny out, partially deployed. Furling the Genny without overwrapping the furling line takes careful coordination between handling the line and the sheet. After explaining the procedure to new crew, I have had to go forward too many times to clear the overwrap, so I now handle the furling and find someone to take the wheel. Gauging the comfort level of guests in breezy conditions is key to enjoying the day.
:plus::plus:
I totally agree with you @Tom J . My wife is the best at Stewarding, for her rank as Admiral. We’ve seen 20-30 knots on Cayuga and have used our 155 genny down to 1 reef. We get a great ride on a reach or down wind and it helps to have a good helmsman while I deal with sail and lines. There’s no crying in sailing, especially when you’re on the water with good crew.

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May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
1585601158565.png


during the season in sturge, i try and go sailing everyday. of course it works out to be less. aeolus is one of the most active sailers out of sturge. its a windy part of the world. i love ALL wind speeds, ALL. i love all the challenges. i love stiff headwinds. the boat came with 6 different jibs. including this club footed jib. 4 staysails. 2 spinnakers. it just was how the vessel was set up. we/ I have kept it that way. the 1966 experience. the boat will do things that most can't do anymore. plus the vessel is naturally stiff. no shoal draft option here ( 6 ft of draft ain't nothing hard to deal with. try 28' sometime). i did not set the boat up, the OO did. this is how they sailed boats back then. aeolus is a american NE coastal cruiser, perfect for the great lakes. we will drive to weather in a stiff wind all day long. i see very few that will anymore.
 

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May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
1 1/2 oz. spinnaker , blowing 25 to 35, deep reaching, yippee !!!

huge rudder helps, size matters

you gotta drive to weather to get home for dinner :)
 
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Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
It's been a long time for me, but it seems 30 knots is just beginning to get too windy.
A lot depends on the boat, the local environment and the guests. Also, I get seasick. It starts as soon as the lines leave the cleats. It lasts for three days and then done. It does not dampen my spirits for a good sail. It may for guests. Many don't even know how they will respond. The most important thing, as host, is to remain flexible and remember you're not out there to show off, but to make sure everyone has a good time.

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
my sailmaker, al decerlq, dole detroit, (i love his sails) says my mains and mizzens and smaller jibs are all good to 60 knots. i have snapped the main boom once, have snapped the jib boom twice, the sails were good. :0 oops. main doing the mac? squall/ thunderstorm and the jib booms from flogging in 45 to 50 stuff, tacking. oops.
i keep stash spruce for the future.
 
May 25, 2012
4,333
john alden caravelle 42 sturgeon bay, wis
short water lines, long overhangs, narrow beams, the offshore guys will tell you the this shape will hobby horse beating in a steep, tall sea. their report is accurate 'BUT. only if you don't push back.offshore you don't push that hard if your 1000 mile from nowhere. when i'm driving to weather ( 20 mi from safety) i push bach as hard as i can and the hobby horsing goes away and your just driving the waves.
thankyou John Alden
 
Apr 5, 2009
2,774
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
short water lines, long overhangs, narrow beams, the offshore guys will tell you the this shape will hobby horse beating in a steep, tall sea. their report is accurate 'BUT. only if you don't push back.offshore you don't push that hard if your 1000 mile from nowhere. when i'm driving to weather ( 20 mi from safety) i push bach as hard as i can and the hobby horsing goes away and your just driving the waves.
thankyou John Alden
I find the same true with my Catalina 30. In big wind, if you depower too much you will rise up over the tops of all waves and slam down on the back side. :yikes: Keep you foot in the throttle and the bow will cut through the waves with a much better ride and less stress on the rig and hull.
 
Feb 10, 2017
305
Hunter 41 Progreso
We are very lucky here, wind is always over 14, and from january to august the wind will rise from around 12 until night and usually we will end at 25 knots. We enjoy sailing with a lot of wind but after 18 knots we do not enjoy so much and is not likely we will drop anchor and swim. Because the shallow water the waves are not big. From dusk until 12 the wind will always came from land so the water is flat. But none of this will be good with a boat full of landlubbers.
 
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Ward H

.
Nov 7, 2011
3,645
Catalina 30 Mk II Barnegat, NJ
All depends on whether I can make the ride comfortable and fun for my friends. I take into consideration wind direction, water conditions, their experience and if they wanted a nice easy ride or something more sporty . Twice I took out guys with no sailing but MB experience. Both said they looked forward to an exciting experience. Winds built too over 20 but I was comfortable and they had a blast.
Took a friend who never been on a sailboat before and watched her get nervous from the slight heel of turning the boat. When the winds got above 10 we headed back.

I tell anyone new to my boat that if they get nervous/uncomfortable about anything to let me know. We can always change our plans and party back at the marina.
 
Oct 6, 2007
1,023
Hunter H30 1982 Chicago IL
You're planning to take some friends out on a summer Saturday, but instead of the nice, warm 10-knot breeze you've got a nice, warm small craft warning gusting to 25 knots.

What do you do?

View attachment 173077
Depends on the wind direction here. Sailing out of Chicago a 20-25 knot wind from the NE can be brutal. It’s full fetch down the length of the lake, pushing up big waves, close together. Good day for a leisurely lunch at the yacht club. If it’s a W wind, off the land, that’s another story. Nice flat water if you stay close to shore. Reef the genoa and go on a screaming reach north and back south enjoying the city skyline. The tall buildings downtown creat wind shadows and puffs which can make things interesting.
 
Jan 26, 2019
68
Catalina 30, mkI 2462 Waukegan, IL
Probably make alternate plans unless with guys who wanted to go out and beat their chests a bit.

I like some of the ideas of hanging out at the harbor. That didn't really dawn on me. I hang out for an entire day on the boat in her slip and thoroughly enjoy myself. Perhaps my non-boating friends wouldn't mind a simple BBQ in a maritime setting.