This is almost as bad as asking is Catalina better than Hunter because it's mostly personal preference and it starts a never ending thread but--- I'd appreciate feedback on Yanmar vs. Universal diesels in the 25-30 hp range.
Engines
- Thread starter Bill C320 Papillon
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I think you would find that most of the major mfg. are either using Volvo or Yanmar today. The biggest complaint that I have heard about the Volvo is the price of parts.
I know Yanmar was building great engines 30 years ago. If it was a new engine I had just spent thousands to put in, I would be perfectly happy with the way my 1979 2QM20 runs. Each spring, I hook it up to a bucket and press the starter button and it starts up just as quickly and easily as in the middle of a summer daysail when it's all warmed up.
Without getting into
Without starting a war on Yanmar vs Universal vs Volvo vs whatever. They are all good engines, and virtually bullet proof if properly taken care of. I think the decision for me would rest on the availability of parts, and to a slightly lesser degree on pricing. To that extent, the nod would have to go to Yanmar, their dealer/distributor network takes a back seat to none. Universal, which uses a Kubato block, at least on some models, would run a very close second, as most non marine pieces are available at Kubota tractor dealers, at a greatly reduced cost. Don't have any knowledge on availability on Volvo parts, but they do have a reputation as being the highest priced of the high priced.
Without starting a war on Yanmar vs Universal vs Volvo vs whatever. They are all good engines, and virtually bullet proof if properly taken care of. I think the decision for me would rest on the availability of parts, and to a slightly lesser degree on pricing. To that extent, the nod would have to go to Yanmar, their dealer/distributor network takes a back seat to none. Universal, which uses a Kubato block, at least on some models, would run a very close second, as most non marine pieces are available at Kubota tractor dealers, at a greatly reduced cost. Don't have any knowledge on availability on Volvo parts, but they do have a reputation as being the highest priced of the high priced.
I pretty much agree with comments so far.. I have worked on both Universal and Yanmar..both are great engines, and pretty well bullet proof if correctly maintained. I am partial to Yanmar because I have one and it has been great, and because there is a major Yanmar distributor about 30 minutes from the boat..
Love my new 3YM30 but not cheap! I purchased the engine/tranny/wiring with panel assembly and installed it myself. Shortly after we left Lake Erie and are now here in Florida. We probably motored or motor-sailed seventy percent of the 3000 miles. Except for an occasional filter change nothing has been done. It starts immediately even after a fuel filter change, self-bleeding. The oil filter is a challenge, easy to change but hard to keep from spilling. Everything else is right up front. My crew commented on how smooth and quiet compared to other boats they had been on. This engine/tranny weighs almost 250 pounds less than the 20hp, 2QM20, that it replaced. The installation is in "Boat Info", Hunter Owner Modifications, under H37-Cutter.
my ten cents; had a Uni in my Catalina- great little engine. Have a Perkins in my Bene, great bigger engine, but parts for it, starter solenoid, exhuast water injection fitting, expensive and hard to get (I had a new fitting fabricated and turned out cheaper and better than a replacement from Perkins) A friend has a Volvo in his Hunter 45. Worse engine I've ever seen. The turbocharger failed after only 500 hours and even though they're built by a large turbo supplier, he had to go thru Volvo to get it. EXPENSIVE and took a long time to get. I advise people to avoid turbochargers if possible, they don't like the marine environment. They're used to make a smaller, lighter engine pump out more hp. You're better off with a bit larger, a bit heavier engine that's naturally aspirated.
Somewhere in my files I have a table that defines the service cycles for pleasure, police and military and commercial engine use for the same engine. Essentially for pleasure service they allow 300 hp for 300 hours per year, for police and military use 280 hp for 1000 hours per year and 250hp for commercial service unlimited hours. Just follow the RPM/HP curves for the rest of the details. I think that a turbo will not shorten the life of an engine when it is operated within its defined range.
Ross: I have no idea where you are coming from with your stats. I spoke with one of the MOST respected Yanmar dealers in the SF bay area. The Yanmar engines are rated for 10,000-12000 hrs without a major overhaul.
While I am sure that Yanmar put heavy duty pistons, rods etc in the turbo engines, I would assume that you will see a shorter interval in a turbo engine in a 'T' engine vs a non turbo engine. More pressure same basic system.
The issues with the Volvo engine are more an issue of expectations than actual issues. I have never seen a Volvo that does not burn oil (can we hear you Volvo owners now). The (Volvo) owners should expect this issue, but that does not make the engine any less reliable. If the Volvlo owner does not add oil on a regular basis and burns up the motor, they will see a shorter life cycle.
I have been with the SBO site since the early days and it seems that these issues have come up year after year. I have heard that many owners have replaced their Volvo's and a few Yanmars too, but my bet is because they were NOT properly maintained. Many of the QM's (Yanmar) in the early Hunters have been replaced. I really do not know if it is because they were defective or because they were underpowered for the vessel.
As we all know there as still Chevy Vega's and Ford Point's on the road. I doubt that it was because they were invincible engines, it was more like the owner took care of what h/she had to work with.
The high quality engines can definitely take more abuse, but a simple oil change once a year should make all the difference in the world.
While I am sure that Yanmar put heavy duty pistons, rods etc in the turbo engines, I would assume that you will see a shorter interval in a turbo engine in a 'T' engine vs a non turbo engine. More pressure same basic system.
The issues with the Volvo engine are more an issue of expectations than actual issues. I have never seen a Volvo that does not burn oil (can we hear you Volvo owners now). The (Volvo) owners should expect this issue, but that does not make the engine any less reliable. If the Volvlo owner does not add oil on a regular basis and burns up the motor, they will see a shorter life cycle.
I have been with the SBO site since the early days and it seems that these issues have come up year after year. I have heard that many owners have replaced their Volvo's and a few Yanmars too, but my bet is because they were NOT properly maintained. Many of the QM's (Yanmar) in the early Hunters have been replaced. I really do not know if it is because they were defective or because they were underpowered for the vessel.
As we all know there as still Chevy Vega's and Ford Point's on the road. I doubt that it was because they were invincible engines, it was more like the owner took care of what h/she had to work with.
The high quality engines can definitely take more abuse, but a simple oil change once a year should make all the difference in the world.
Steve, i couldn't find my files but this link answers most of the questions raised in this thread. http://www.yachtsurvey.com/GasDiesel.htm
Ross: Unfortunately I have very little respect for this guy. I have read several reports that he has posted. I think he is a better entertainer than a surveyor. This note that he has on his website makes me very suspicious.
"Myth #5: A diesel engine can have an expected life expectancy of several thousand hours. Patently untrue. The average life expectancy of a marine diesel engine in a pleasurecraft is somewhere around 1500 hours between major overhauls. The average boat reaches this in about 8-10 years, meaning that the average annual operating time averages around 150 hours. If that seems unrealistically low, consider that that translates into 2-1/2 weeks of eight hour days. Most boats have years when its even less than that. If this surprises you, it may surprise you even more when I tell you that gas engines average around 900 hours before overhauls."
If you look around at used sailboats you will see many of them with 3,000 - 4,000 hrs on the original engines. Our old 2GM engine has over 2,000 hours and has never had anything other than the periodic oil changes.
While I must agree that having a gas engine is not that big of a deal, my preference would always be a diesel.
"Myth #5: A diesel engine can have an expected life expectancy of several thousand hours. Patently untrue. The average life expectancy of a marine diesel engine in a pleasurecraft is somewhere around 1500 hours between major overhauls. The average boat reaches this in about 8-10 years, meaning that the average annual operating time averages around 150 hours. If that seems unrealistically low, consider that that translates into 2-1/2 weeks of eight hour days. Most boats have years when its even less than that. If this surprises you, it may surprise you even more when I tell you that gas engines average around 900 hours before overhauls."
If you look around at used sailboats you will see many of them with 3,000 - 4,000 hrs on the original engines. Our old 2GM engine has over 2,000 hours and has never had anything other than the periodic oil changes.
While I must agree that having a gas engine is not that big of a deal, my preference would always be a diesel.
Steve , I don't know anything about the man.
I know of several farm tractors with more than 25 years and 4000 hours on them with no overhauls. I do believe that neglect and abuse kills more engines than use. Oil doesn't wear anything out.
I read posts here that ask for help cleaning a dirty engine and can't help but wonder why it was allowed to get dirty. I wipe mine before and after every trip and when I check the oil. In the ten years I have had the engine I haven't found any leaks and haven't added oil between changes. Maybe I have a rare Volvo and maybe there are bad ones.
I know of several farm tractors with more than 25 years and 4000 hours on them with no overhauls. I do believe that neglect and abuse kills more engines than use. Oil doesn't wear anything out.
I read posts here that ask for help cleaning a dirty engine and can't help but wonder why it was allowed to get dirty. I wipe mine before and after every trip and when I check the oil. In the ten years I have had the engine I haven't found any leaks and haven't added oil between changes. Maybe I have a rare Volvo and maybe there are bad ones.
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