I’m having a survey completed next week and the boat is currently on the hard. Should I put her in the water for engine testing or will a yard test suffice? Thanks.
Engine Test - Pre-purchase Survey
- Thread starter Jimbeaux
- Start date
By all means do sea trail, which includes running the engine. That way you can confirm whether or not there is any noticeable vibration through the rpm range (engine alignment, shaft alignment, etc.) and potential overheating at high rpm that requires maintenance (seawater pump impeller replacement, exchanger cleaning, strainer cleaning, mixing elbow replacement). Plus it will give you a chance to observe wind, depth, autopilot, speed, radar, chartplotter instrument performance and check all the running rigging, winch, furler(s) and sail performance.
This is sound advice. The other wrinkle is that she’d need to be fully rigged...it’s essentially snugged down for the winter. Mast would need to be stepped, fully rigged, sails hanked on etc etc etc. Is this my responsibility? Do I show up a day early and get her ready?
If this is a survey with the view to purchase, think very seriously about a sea trial.
That way you (and the surveyor) we be able to judge the engine working.
Running an engine (on the hard with a water connection or tied up at a pen) for ten minutes or so will not tell you all that you need to know.
The big question is ; does it overheat under load?
I take it you have engaged a surveyor, if so what does he or she have to say on the subject?
After all that advice and guidance is what you are paying for.
All the best
gary
That way you (and the surveyor) we be able to judge the engine working.
Running an engine (on the hard with a water connection or tied up at a pen) for ten minutes or so will not tell you all that you need to know.
The big question is ; does it overheat under load?
I take it you have engaged a surveyor, if so what does he or she have to say on the subject?
After all that advice and guidance is what you are paying for.
All the best
gary
I’ve reached out to the surveyor to get his thoughts. Waiting for reply. All things equal I’m sure a sea trial would be best. Now have to work out additional logistics of moving the boat and possibly stepping the mast and all the rest. Never a dull moment.
The other wrinkle is that she’d need to be fully rigged...it’s essentially snugged down for the winter. Mast would need to be stepped, fully rigged, sails hanked on etc etc etc. Is this my responsibility? Do I show up a day early and get her ready?
If your plan is to sail her away, then you (or the present owner) will need to rig her.
If you plan to leave her wrapped until spring, it is a different story.
I don't know about getting her mast stepped and rigged and ready for in a day.
Then what? What happens if you don't buy her?
gary
If your plan is to sail her away, then you (or the present owner) will need to rig her.
If you plan to leave her wrapped until spring, it is a different story.
I don't know about getting her mast stepped and rigged and ready for in a day.
Then what? What happens if you don't buy her?
gary
Nothing beats an actual sea trial.
That being said, when approaching a purchase, I always look at the risk I perceive of each system to run as expected or not as the case may be. The purchase price and the value of the boat are a critical factor in this risk decision. The lower the price and the higher the value of the boat the greater the risk I'm willing to take. The closer the price to the value of the boat, the less risk I'm willing to take. You haven't said what the boat is, nor the price so you'll have to figure out that risk ratio, so to speak.
The other thing I tend to do is get a gut feeling for how "good" I think the boat is. This one is hard to explain as it comes from decades of being on boats. You have t o work within your own limitations on that one.
But if the boat seems to be darned good (don't let "I love this boat" emotions get in the way), the price seems good, the conditions seem good, then making sure the engine is running well while on the hard could work. You will have to decide about all the factors to make that decision.
dj
That being said, when approaching a purchase, I always look at the risk I perceive of each system to run as expected or not as the case may be. The purchase price and the value of the boat are a critical factor in this risk decision. The lower the price and the higher the value of the boat the greater the risk I'm willing to take. The closer the price to the value of the boat, the less risk I'm willing to take. You haven't said what the boat is, nor the price so you'll have to figure out that risk ratio, so to speak.
The other thing I tend to do is get a gut feeling for how "good" I think the boat is. This one is hard to explain as it comes from decades of being on boats. You have t o work within your own limitations on that one.
But if the boat seems to be darned good (don't let "I love this boat" emotions get in the way), the price seems good, the conditions seem good, then making sure the engine is running well while on the hard could work. You will have to decide about all the factors to make that decision.
dj
How about an escrow account that would be released to the seller after the boat is launched in the spring and a proper sea trial conducted? That is not ideal for either you or the seller but I suggest it as a possibility.
When doing an engine inspection, you might choose to do an oil analysis, engine and drive, i do on every boat and this last time we found water in the sail drive, we rebuilt the sail drive at the sellers cost and all is good.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,951
In the water on any inboard aux powered boat 30ft and greater is my opinion. For all the reasons mentioned above.If Diesel engine and transmission are new to you, get an engine professional to assist. You need to inspect the ability of the engine to perform. Bring a boat captain along if you need to to be sure all the testing is preformed correctly.
Power the boat up and run it WOT. Run it low throttle. Back it up. Spin it in place. Shift from forward to reverse and back to forward. Do an emergency stop. You need to test the engine/transmission in all the types of boat maneuvers that you may need to use in your boating. A well maintained engine and transmission will handle these issues. Do not abuse the engine/transmission but do listen, and feel it as you run the engine through its paces. Monitor temps and RPM.
You may get some looks from the boat owner as they may have been babying the engine due to concerns for it's age or discovered weaknesses. Expect it.
In these situations, i.e., a great expense to put the boat in the water, take it out, and winterize it again, it is common practice to have a holdback in escrow. Some mutually agreed upon amount of money is held in escrow by the broker until the boat is launched and the engine run. If there are problems, the money in the escrow is used to fix any issues. If there are no issues, then the money is released to the seller.
Two factors will affect the amount the seller is willing to hold in escrow, 1) the seller's confidence that the engine will run without issue and 2) how soon the seller needs the money. Depending on the boat, the motor, and the overall condition of the boat, anywhere from $500 to $1000 would be a good amount.
Hey,
Some questions and other things for you to consider.
You didn't include much information. Of course it's always preferable to have a complete sea trial where you can test the engine, transmission, sail handling, etc. However there may be significant costs associated with that.
Generally the BUYER is responsible for all survey costs. This includes a haul out for inspection (if the boat is in the water), or, if the boat is on the hard, the cost of putting the boat into the water and then again to haul it.
If you plan on buying the boat, and then sailing it home, then this cost isn't too much. However, if you're not sure you are going to buy the boat, or if you buy it, will leave it where it is for the winter, then the cost of preparing for a sea trial may not be worth it.
Also, how old is the boat, how much to you trust the seller, and what condition is everything in?
If the boat is pretty new (less than 10 years) and has been recently used (like this season), and I was going to leave the boat where it is until next year, then I would not pay for a sea trial. i would have the boat surveyed. and I would insist the engine be run on land. This is pretty easy to do with a bucket and a hose. You can run the engine, let it get to up to temperature, make sure it doesn't overheat but you can't load test it.
if the boat is older, hasn't been used in some time, then I would probably pay for a proper sea trial.
There are always exceptions of course. I bought a boat that was on the hard. The owner's storage agreement included launching. I planned on sailing the boat home, so I had the boat rigged and launched at no cost to me. I paid for the survey and sea trial (to my surveyor). If I rejected the boat I would have had to pay for the de-rig and haul-out.
Decisions decisions.
Barry
Some questions and other things for you to consider.
You didn't include much information. Of course it's always preferable to have a complete sea trial where you can test the engine, transmission, sail handling, etc. However there may be significant costs associated with that.
Generally the BUYER is responsible for all survey costs. This includes a haul out for inspection (if the boat is in the water), or, if the boat is on the hard, the cost of putting the boat into the water and then again to haul it.
If you plan on buying the boat, and then sailing it home, then this cost isn't too much. However, if you're not sure you are going to buy the boat, or if you buy it, will leave it where it is for the winter, then the cost of preparing for a sea trial may not be worth it.
Also, how old is the boat, how much to you trust the seller, and what condition is everything in?
If the boat is pretty new (less than 10 years) and has been recently used (like this season), and I was going to leave the boat where it is until next year, then I would not pay for a sea trial. i would have the boat surveyed. and I would insist the engine be run on land. This is pretty easy to do with a bucket and a hose. You can run the engine, let it get to up to temperature, make sure it doesn't overheat but you can't load test it.
if the boat is older, hasn't been used in some time, then I would probably pay for a proper sea trial.
There are always exceptions of course. I bought a boat that was on the hard. The owner's storage agreement included launching. I planned on sailing the boat home, so I had the boat rigged and launched at no cost to me. I paid for the survey and sea trial (to my surveyor). If I rejected the boat I would have had to pay for the de-rig and haul-out.
Decisions decisions.
Barry
I have dove that before...bought a boat in winter storage and now way to even really start the engine. And I couldn’t test all of the instruments. So we agreed on an escrow amount to be held until I had the boat in the water, engine tested and I released the escrow. That was my first boat, and it made me feel a lot better about the purchase.
Greg
Quick update here...I had the survey completed earlier this week. The surveyor said she had “good bones” and I left it to his discretion as to whether a sea trial was in order. In the end we opted for running the engine in the yard. Not knowing a lot about diesels I was quite surprised that not having been run for well over a year that she turned over and started first click. I’m wondering if someone had prepped her before I got there. I’ve also read that I should have expected a huge billowing cloud of black smoke. There wasn’t a hint of smoke throughout the entire test which essentially came down to testing at low, mid, and high RPMs. Again, being my first boat I am relying on the grace of more experienced owners and thus my reason for posting in here.
I had my Hunter 386 on the hard for 3 years and the diesel engine started up immediately (same with my Ford F250 diesel) after putting her back in the water so starting your boat on first click is not surprising.
Sounds like you have a good engine. The boat I have I bought about 3 years ago. It had been sitting essentially abandoned for somewhere in the neighborhood of 16 years. When I went to start the motor, it started on first click as if it had been started the day before. No smoke, nothing unusual. It has run well since.
dj
dj
Black smoke would mean unburnt fuel. If it started right up that’s a pretty good sign, and there would be no unburnt fuel from cranking for a long time. The other time you could get black smoke is when overloaded, especially if the injectors are worn, but there’s no way to really simulate that load on the hard. Overall I’d say your test gave you some level of confidence that the engine is sound; not a complete evaluation but combined with the other indicators it’s a good way to mitigate any risks.